Kim's type (split from "Breaking up with a dual")

[EyeSeeCold]

That's a good way of putting it.



It's not an irrelevant point if people are misapplying the definition, as is the case in this thread.



ESC is flashing his colors again, arguing that definitions trump reality.

It's an irrelevant point to the argument dolphin was making in response to Eye of the Potato's argument; she really didn't say anything substantial, regarding Ne.

[EyeSeeCold]

Don't play stupid. I hate having to hold someone's hand and walk them through arguments they disingenuously pretend they didn't see. Or you just weren't really paying attention and yet feel compelled to nuisance debate over it anyway.

EoP drew an equivalence multiple times between and "possibilities" + "alternative perspectives," e.g.:

dolphin attempted to argue against Eye of the Potato's points, but one of her arguments was that "It's not 'well known' that Ne is 'possibilities' or 'insights'", but it actually is. Then she made an irrelevant point towards me about "what Ne actually is", when that has nothing to do with it being well known that Ne is defined as intuition of possibilities/opportunities.


The accuracy of how Ne is defined bears no relation to what Ne is commonly known as; they are two different arguments.

[Creepy-female]

dolphin attempted to argue against Eye of the Potato's points, but one of her arguments was that "It's not 'well known' that Ne is 'possibilities' or 'insights'", but it actually is.

You are right about this technicality. However, my argument does not hinge on the fact that Ne as possibilities is "well known". It hinges on the fact that said definition is wrong, or misunderstood..

Then she made an irrelevant point towards me about "what Ne actually is", when that has nothing to do with it being well known that Ne is defined as intuition of possibilities/opportunities

It is perhaps irrelevant if you view "it is not well known that Ne is possibilities" as a key point to my argument.

If you assume it is indeed a key point, you have your own personal idea of what my goals SHOULD be. Which I have no intention of regarding unless you show you came to this thread with motivation besides hrumphing around my arguments to nurse your petty personal beef with me.

The accuracy of how Ne is defined bears no relation to what Ne is commonly known as; they are two different arguments.

If Potato states that her argument had nothing to do with accuracy of definition and only intended to preserve the consistency of said definition, no matter its bearings on reality, I would be happy to stop wasting energy on this conversation.

[Radio]

Here's my contribution to this thread.

[EyeSeeCold]

You are right about this technicality. However, my argument does not hinge on the fact that Ne as possibilities is "well known". It hinges on the fact that said definition is wrong, or misunderstood..

Yeah it is misunderstood, like I said, I agree that there is vagueness in "possibility/opportunity" without context.

It is perhaps irrelevant if you view "it is not well known that Ne is possibilities" as a key point to my argument.

If you assume it is indeed a key point, you have your own personal idea of what my goals SHOULD be. Which I have no intention of regarding unless you show you came to this thread with motivation besides hrumphing around my arguments to nurse your petty personal beef with me.

Right, it wasn't a key point, just one I happened to identify.

I didn't know we had beef. We've conflicted yeah, but I don't have anything personal against you.

If you thought I took anything you've said personally, I haven't, for the record.



You play RS, that's good enough for me.

If Potato states that her argument had nothing to do with accuracy of definition and only intended to preserve the consistency of said definition, no matter its bearings on reality, I would be happy to stop wasting energy on this conversation.

I also didn't know Eye of the Potato was female.

Okay.

[Eye of the Potato]

I have met many ENTj who think progressive taxation is a good idea as well and many other supposedly socialist mechanisms, like universal health care. Not type related.

Universal health care isn't socialism. I live in a democracy where health care is free for all, but we're not a socialist state. Maybe I should rephrase it. I've never met an ENTj who thinks socialism works. ENTj's understand people in a way that other types do not.

[FDG]

No, universal healthcare is definitely socialism. And yes, socialism is retarded.

Ehh. Universal healthcare is a part of a full-on socialist system. A full-on socialist system is retarded, but I'd say that universal healthcare is one of the very few things I'd keep. Of course it's not truly universal, since rationing will always be present. Let's say: some degree of public tax-funded healthcare.

[Pa3s]

And yes, socialism is retarded.

A full-on socialist system is retarded...

And yeah, universal healthcare is a socialist thing. We don't even have a "free" market economy in Germany. Ours is called "social market economy". As you can see below (1:13), our basic tax rate is also much higher, to finance the social expenses.

[Kim]

Ok, finally I get some attention in a thread about ME and here you guys come in and ruin it all with irrelevant politics stuff! Can I please be the 1% in my thread?

[Kim]

I miss my German healthcare card...

[Slacker]

LOL I love how this was broken off another thread because people went off on a tangent about Kim's type, and now it's all full of off-topic stuff like EoP's type and universal healthcare.

[Slacker]

I also agree with Dolphin/Nemo that post #3 in this (the broken-off) thread sounds kind of like, "Why do you have Ti PoLR, Kim, WHY WHY OH WHY?"

[blackburry]

Nemo= dolphin? I knew there was a reason I liked what was said.

I think EOP is just stating that Kim may not be IEE because he/she doesn't like her, simple as that.
I *do* believe that Kim is IEE.
I think EOP is probably EII or ESE

[Creepy-female]

I've been wondering if we have a Beta on the loose or if she's just really pissy about customer service...which is understandable, lol.

I liked the Maritsa comparison way too much but I keep holding off because I'd feel guilty about using it. Lol.

[Pa3s]

Ok, finally I get some attention in a thread about ME and here you guys come in and ruin it all with irrelevant politics stuff!

Yeah, sorry n' stuff... it's not irrelevant, though.

[Kim]

Yeah, sorry n' stuff... it's not irrelevant, though.

I wasn't serious. You may derail my thread all you want. Keine Sorge!

[Aquagraph]

Well have you ever met an ENTj who thinks Socialism is a good idea?

I'm currently at socialist ENTj's apartment. I still believe that everything is type-related as everything is related to everything.
Is this Ne?

[EyeSeeCold]

If you agree with that, then why are you even arguing over this?

It got her to stop wasting time arguing with EotP over menial trivialities, didn't it?

[Eye of the Potato]

Nemo= dolphin? I knew there was a reason I liked what was said.

I think EOP is just stating that Kim may not be IEE because he/she doesn't like her, simple as that.
I *do* believe that Kim is IEE.
I think EOP is probably EII or ESE

If you think I questioned Kims type, just because I don't like her, you need to rethink how you come to your conclusions. Why would I not like her? I don't even know her, she did nothing to me. It's crazy to say that.

EII or ESE? Oh my god.

[Eye of the Potato]

What I meant was that universal healthcare is a socialistic practice, just like any kind of government intervention in the markets is.



Eh, I'm sure I could write a lengthy essay with a plethora of reasons as to why I disagree with this. But to be short, it's that I can't agree with the ethics that it's somehow right to force someone to pay for another's healthcare. I'm also strongly convinced that the financial solvency of publicly-funded healthcare models are simply unsustainable over the long-term.

This is especially true in developed countries, where you have increasingly larger aging populations with rising lifespans. Coupled with declining birthrates, which means less younger people in the work force to help pay for the expense of keeping the older ones alive. At which point rationing would have to kick in hard, and policymakers would basically have to decide who gets to live or die.

What about the NHS in the UK?

My daughter was born there when I was on holiday and had to have an operation. It was all free. They even put me up in a hotel inside the hospital. All for free. As far as I know the U.K. is not a socialist state. I can't help but agree with the U.K.'s policy of taking care of those in need of help. The system in America is going to fall flat on it's face. It's disgusting. It makes me sick to my stomach when I hear about people not getting the care they need because they can't afford the insurance to pay for it. It's rotten. The bottom will fall out of it sooner or later.


That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I'm done with this place.

Bye.

[consentingadult]

What I meant was that universal healthcare is a socialistic practice, just like any kind of government intervention in the markets is.

Not quite. Esping-Andersen's model of welfare states differentiates between three kinds (which are best treated as an ideal-type model): Liberal (i.e. in the European sense, thus 'capitalist'), Corporatist-Statist (Christian Democrats) and Social-Democrat (what you call socialism). Abviously, Social Democrat welfare states involve government intervention, but so does Corporate-Statism.

But to be short, it's that I can't agree with the ethics that it's somehow right to force someone to pay for another's healthcare.

That is one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at is, is of forming a collective and so spreading the risks amongst people. The question involved is that of the collective action dilemma: should people be forced? We know how e.g. Rousseau felt about it: in his opinion it was okay to trade in individual freedoms for civic freedoms. I fail to see why Rousseau's point would be less ethical than, lets say, a more liberal-capitalist interpretation of freedom such as that of Ayn Rand, especially because I believe Capitalism is not the result of Libertarian ideas, but of Enlightenment ideas that involve a clear role for the State and of collective action principles, even in countries like the UK and the US. Without state involvement, there would be no capitalism.

I'm also strongly convinced that the financial solvency of publicly-funded healthcare models are simply unsustainable over the long-term.

Privately funded healthcare is not a blessing either. Take a look at the US, where a lot of people can't afford health insurance anymore, or have health insurance that doesn't cover the expenses of the basic health care they need. But is is true that publicly funded healthcare models are unsustainable, but this is not an intrinsic quality. The reason why it is unsustainable, is that people have increasing expectations from the healthcare system. In European countries, such as the Netherlands, governments have responded to the nightmare of having to manage this problem by bringing healthcare to 'the markets'. This actually increases the problem of people's expectations from the healthcare system, instead of bringing it down, and costs rise.

[Gilly]

Interesting word choice on that quote.

[Beautiful sky]

Here are my observations about Kim's type:

She often does not tend towards analysis of Ti kind; she's not concerned about analysis in categories, deciphering commonalities/differences in what is said, claimed, or intended; she's Ti PoLR and devalues Ti because she doesn't necessary enjoy it or like being in a Ti environment. She doesn't enjoy me telling her the differences between two things and sifting or dividing things into categories; to her some things seem like they are all the same thing, because of this she has poor control or handle on Ti. You may observe this about Kim in "Maritsa, what's your 5 day plan" thread.

Written by Kim in response to my post above. LOL

Very true. In the case of that thread, trying to decipher the difference seemed non-productive because I don't think it is material in determining someone's type. I don't like to theoretical systems with no connection to reality because they seem pointless.I live the Ti to you, Maritsa.

[Absurd]

She often does not tend towards analysis of Ti; she's not concerned about analysis in categories, deciphering commonalities/differences in what is said, claimed, or intended; she Ti PoLR because she doesn't necessary enjoy it or like being in a Ti environment. She doesn't enjoy me telling her the differences between two things and sifting or dividing things into categories, to her some things seem like they are all the same thing, because of this poor control or handle on Ti. You may observe this about Kim in "Maritsa, what's your 5 day plan" thread.

Okay, Kim isn't a Ti type. She's doesn't enjoy categorising and dividing.

I look left and I look right. Looks like there's a lot of Ti types on here but don't tell anyone. It is going to be out little secret.

[Creepy-bg]

maritsa she accidentally hit the 'edit post' button instead of 'reply'. it's something that all moderators mistakenly do at some point. there is no conspiracy or people logging into your account.

[Pa3s]

there is no conspiracy or people logging into your account.

It wouldn't make any sense either. If she could log into your account, you'd see "last edited by Maritsa" and not by kim.

[Creepy-bg]

It wouldn't make any sense either. If she could log into your account, you'd see "last edited by Maritsa" and not by kim.

yup.

[Beautiful sky]

maritsa she accidentally hit the 'edit post' button instead of 'reply'. it's something that all moderators mistakenly do at some point. there is no conspiracy or people logging into your account.

I'm not saying that she did this on purpose; it must be some kind of a system error.

[Beautiful sky]

Kim is most likely IEE or SEE type; she seems more IEE to me because, although she seems like she's will-full, she's actually not interested in having her will on me. She comes off more "here, I want to teach you something" or "here, I want to show you another aspect of this," which is more like the teaching relationship that is common with Mirror relations.

[Creepy-bg]

I'm not saying that she did this on purpose; it must be some kind of a system error.

not a system error. the 'edit post' button is where you're used to the 'reply' button being before becoming a moderator. it's an easy mistake to make until you've made it.

[Absurd]

Haha, this forum is completely bonkers.

[EyeSeeCold]

This is weird someone just logged on and edited my post? WTH? Kim...what are you doing? You posted this under my account? How can you edit or post as me? " Last edited by Kim; Today at 11:38 AM."

[Beautiful sky]

That's my suspicious nature

[Kim]

not a system error. the 'edit post' button is where you're used to the 'reply' button being before becoming a moderator. it's an easy mistake to make until you've made it.

That's what happened. And I was wondering where my post was... Sorry Maritsa! Thanks for clarifying, BG! <3

[Absurd]

That's what happened. And I was wondering where my post was... Sorry Maritsa! Thanks for clarifying, BG! <3

I'm going to give you my password so you can write stuff next time.

I don't need your password!

[Kim]

And now I shall stop abusing THE POWER, accidentally or otherwise.

[EyeSeeCold]

That's what happened. And I was wondering where my post was... Sorry Maritsa! Thanks for clarifying, BG! <3

And now I shall stop abusing THE POWER, accidentally or otherwise.

Eh, mistakes happen, the more people's posts you edit the more you'll get used to the correct procedures, or so I hear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

[golden]

not a system error. the 'edit post' button is where you're used to the 'reply' button being before becoming a moderator. it's an easy mistake to make until you've made it.

I did this once, ergh. And to .... drumroll ... tcaud!!!!!!! Argherlkerjkejwkjekrjkejrkejkslkdjlkjzldkfj.

I had to go back in and reconstruct his post based on the history.