Where is the source of this article?
Where is the source of this article?
It's linked at the beginning of the OP. Just click on the "source" word.Originally Posted by Destroypuppy
Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 06-29-2014 at 12:19 AM.
Thank you kind sir.
And again the SLE is just a Enneagram 8, cognitive configuration goes deeper than that.
This seemed very consistent in relation to what I know about the types. It makes real sense for me because I'm in doubt between SLI and LSI and sometimes I have thought "the world is ruled by some benevolent nature, this is how it is, it is benevolent by nature, good" and other times "the world must have order, otherwise everything and everyone falls into an abyss of chaos". It resonates pretty well with my own views on how the world is governed. Governed in an almost metaphysical sense, I mean. How it actually works when you look at it from a higher perspective.1. Objective idealists.
- Nastivnik (ET, EIE): the world is ruled god, destiny, providence. This is the most mystical or religious minded sociotype, often being in the form of-date, sincerely believes in his messianism, in that he is a preacher of the divine, cosmic or other supernatural forces.
- Inventor (IL, ILE): universe ruled by the world's mind. This sociotype more than any other faith in the knowability of the most complex phenomena in a reasonable unit of the objective world, it is explainable in terms of precise laws of logic ("God does not play dice" - Einstein).
- Psychologist (IR, IEA) world is ruled by a sense which is stronger than man, is the altruistic type of person who can help people, not even asking for thanks. This explains its strong tendency to empathy.
- Entrepreneur (PT, LIE): Creator of all - wildlife. This sociotype animates nature, thus becoming a dualist, that is, it is equally recognized the ideal and the real beginning, which are connected to a natural disaster.
2. Subjective idealists.
- Analyst (LI, LII): the world is ruled idea («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people understand what the system is controlled by the laws of society, it is possible to arrange true. The most constructive sociotype who believes that any phenomenon is defined universal primary elements (archetypes eidoses, a priori categories) and relationships between them.
- Critic (TP, OR): the world is governed case. Objective laws there is little, everything is relative and is determined by probability. Most inclined to agnosticism type of intelligence ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only with the full clarity and inner peace that is achieved through meditation.
- Lyric (TE, IEI): the world is ruled mood state. The most volatile type of mentality, severely dependent on their internal attitude. Because of this, it is relatively easy to convince on any issue, to be quite persistent. But he just as easily and refuses to imposed beliefs.
- Mediator (RI, EII): the world is ruled kindness. The most compassionate type of person, even if his feelings and not translated into deeds. Ideal notions of right and justice if they are all guided in their daily lives, will lead to the humane society. However, they should go from the soul of man himself, rather than be imposed from outside.
3. Objective materialists.
- Marshall (FL, SLE): the world is ruled strength, power. The most resolute of all sociotypes. In the fight comes only when the preponderance of forces will provide yourself, or find an unsecure location of the enemy. The objective reality given us in sensation - that's why you can trust, and the rest - an illusion.
- Politics (FR, SEE): the world is ruled glory, fame, and communications. The most cautious of all sociotypes, since all studies on mistakes. Progressing to the touch, trusting only his own feelings. Words, concepts, and ideas - is just a tool to influence people.
- Enthusiast (ES, ESE): the world is ruled rush burning desire. The most emotional type of person who can influence the mood of others. It can be credited to the idealists, because he is well capable of doing only what he likes. However, his usual dependence on the energy status of others - quite material.
- Administrator (PS, FEL): the world is governed labor deal. The most materialistic thinking type of mentality, based in their arguments only on facts and proven patterns. Depends entirely on the labor process, subjecting him your plans. Rejects any far-fetched theories and schemes, if they are not presented as a mature technology.
4. Subjective materialists.
- The Inspector (LF, LSI): the world is governed order and discipline. The most depends on the organization of a specific space sociotype entirely subordinate institutions of the. Any major alternative is rejected as a departure from the waste structure for it is tantamount to losing a foothold, uncontrollable chaos.
- The Guardian (RF, ESI): the world is governed morality, moral duty. This type of mentality, more than any other, depends on its internal moral attitudes. A person may behave toward others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values protected against any attacks from outside. Even objectively broke passion can be brought under control at will.
- Broker (SE, SEI): the world is ruled fun. This only makes good sociotype pleasant and interesting for a job. Pretty conformal behavior, it easily adapts to the other, believing that people are willing to go forward, if only to create an atmosphere of comfort and offer something that they do not have to live in his pleasure.
- Master (SP, SLI): the world is ruled good. In accordance with the philosophy he had nothing to do for themselves will not be useless and others will never offer. The principle of least action, in which lives the physical world - it is his principle. As the most technologically-minded type, he believes that the main argument - that appeal to common sense man.
Now it just came to me that this is a description of the leading IE of each type in terms of how this IE interprets the life experience. There is another dichotomy. The creative IE influences the main IE and changes how the individual interprets life, as in the difference ISTP-ISFP, for instance. So from this it can be concluded that we interpret life basically with our Ego block IEs.
I find this article to be actually quite insightful.
Personally, this applies to me pretty well:
One has to keep in mind that "Life Philosophy" does not automatically have to equate a specific religious belief. I have known people with different types of religious beliefs who still exhibited the same life philosophy Gulenko has stated for their type.- The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.
In my particular case, I grew up with a family that believes in God, so I just happened to do the same, naturally. I lost all belief in God when I was at the lowest point in my life, crippled by depression. In that manner, my belief was influenced by my mood. In my heart, I just "knew" there was no God; at least none as it is described in the major religions. Based on that feeling/mood, I began researching the topic and my lack of belief solidified.
Now, there are many IEIs who are spiritual, or who have lost faith like I did. Whatever is the case, their beliefs largely stem from their feeling about the issue; just what Gulenko described for their life philosophy.
In the same vein, there are SLE who believe in a God (to some extent), but still see the world as being governed by power structures and the like.
I also know of an EIE-Ni who is actually an atheist. I do not know exactly why and how that happened; he likely had a similar experience as I did. Him being Ni subtype, he might be able to relate to an IEI's philosophy in that way. Regardless, I do believe he is deep down seeing himself as some kind of prophet or preacher, but just does not have the energy nor willpower to follow through with that entirely.
I could see Gulenko's suggestions here being in need of some more editing; but all in all, I would find them more accurate than not.
i think that an EIE with that kind of potential could still adopt the role of a leader that strongly promotes some kind of "belief system" and gets other to follow them. this is even if the EIE is an atheist - their beliefs do not necessarily have to be spiritual or religious. this desire could manifest as being an ideological leader, a political figure, a life coach, etc. i think this is why EIE is also called the "Mentor".
Exactly!
Someone finally gets it.
There are some people out there who believe someone cannot be NF when they are atheist... which is just false. Or vice versa, some people type others as NF (who are actually NT), just because they believe in a God. -_-
Think of these less as concrete descriptions and more as impassable divides. They are in-built ideologies which operate seamlessly with the mind and do not imply any one extraneous belief or another.
Thanks @Crispy for this article, and for the better translation, @silke (which is where i got the quotes).
Here are some thoughts on it and thoughts on how these fit with people I know:
Its very interesting how these are divided up!1. Objective idealists (ENxx)
2. Subjective idealists (INxx)
3. Objective materialists (ESxx)
4. Subjective materialists (ISxx)
Its interesting as EIEs I know have a faith in God and yet I find that communicating with them about it is not so easy. I suppose because we are coming at the same thing from different angles.- The Mentor (EIE): god, fate, destiny rule the world. This type is one of the most oriented at mysticism and religion, honestly believing in its own messiahhood, seeing itself as a missionary for forces cosmic or divine.
I think believing in the human mind to comprehend the most complex things is a great gateway for anyone to understand things they think that maybe they cannot. Obviously ILEs have a leg up in this department since they approach life with this. I also have embraced such an idea when faced with comprehending some body of knowledge that seems intimidating, telling myself that my mind can do this; just be open to it. It helps.- The Inventor (ILE): the universe is ruled by a universal intelligence. This sociotype more than others believes in ability of human mind to comprehend the most complex phenomena, in intelligent design of the objective world, in that it can be explained from the point of view of precise laws of logic. ("God does not play dice" - Einstein)
An example of an ILE friend who seems to have been born with this attitude. He can do or learn about anything, I am sure. He worked for and reached corporate hierarchical heights, and this philosophy as described certainly is part of what brought him there. It always amazes me what he can figure out. When he was a kid, he would take things apart just to learn how they work. His parents tolerated that but warned him to never take that interesting cuckoo clock apart. Of course when they were gone he did just that; he took it apart and put it back together and then hung it back on the wall. (However he put something back backward on the face and was found out later by this tell).
I accept this for me. Though I am often too preoccupied with my own agendas and miss many, many opportunities God presents me so that I can serve Him by being altruistic, but, in general, I think helping people and understanding people is what you just are supposed to do, and that asking for credit or expecting accolades for it is basically wrong.- The Psychologist (IEE): world is governed by a feeling that is more powerful than the individual; this is one of the most altruistic types that is capable of helping people not asking for anything in return. This type has a strong predisposition for empathy.
Interesting. I cannot think of any LIEs IRL ... what do you think of this, @Adam Strange?- The Entrepreneur (LIE): the creator of everything is living nature. This sociotype animates nature, itself becoming a dualist i.e. recognizing in equal measures the material and the idealistic beginnings that unite in the natural realm.
My LII friend, also a successful corporate executive, I befriended when i took an interest in her Catholic writings. She writes very cogently and logically and has a heart for the truth. She explains things very well. I particularly appreciate it when I just know something is wrong, or right, and she instead of just knowing it can explain it.- The Analyzer (LII): the world is governed by a thought («Cogito ergo sum» - Descartes). If people come to understand the systematized laws that govern the society, then society can be structured with fairness. The most constructive of all sociotypes, supposing that any phenomenon can be defined by universal prime elements (archetypes, Forms, a priori categories) and the connections between them.
I do not know the thoughts of the ILIs I know very well, only that they have interesting thoughts. And they do seem to have this humility about them.- The Critic (ILI): the world is governed by chance. Objective measures do not exist. Everything is relative and determined by probability. This type is most predisposed towards agnosticism of the intellect ("I only know that I know nothing" - Socrates). Knowledge is possible only when one attains complete inner clarity and tranquillity that can be achieved via meditation.
I can see @Aylen here!- The Lyrisist (IEI): the world is governed by state, mood. This type possesses the most malleable type of psyche. It is strongly influenced by its own internal disposition. Because of this it is very easy to persuade this type in any issue if one is persistent enough. However, it will just as easily discard beliefs that were imposed on it.
The world is ruled by kindness - this helps me understand why @Maritsa can be so grateful to me here when I am just normally kind... this is after there has been a lack of it here, though. And since general lack of kindness is just wrong to an EII, it can really sting her. Yes, EIIs are a very compassionate type. But you often have to know them well to see it in action. To act with consistent kindness to those in your closest inner circle is a true blessing indeed, and that is what EIIs do.- The Mediator (EII): the world is ruled by kindness. The type that is most predisposed to compassion, even if its words and feelings are not realized as actions. This type has idealistic notions about kindness and fairness and that if everybody abides by these notions in everyday life this will lead towards a more humanitarian society. However, these have to come from the depths of individual's soul rather than imposed from the outside.
I can see this sitting back and not entering an argument - and then doing with with confidence and force - in my son. Also this same confidence and force in any endeavour he enters. Also in wrestling he woudl watch his opponents wrestle to find their weakness and plan his attack. (a spot that just looked like fighting to me at first I learned had a lot of thought and strategy in it). And yes, he is resolute!- The Marshall (SLE): the world is ruled by power and strength. Most resolute of all sociotypes. Will enter an engagement only when he is sure that he has advantage in force or has found a weakness in the enemy forces. Objective reality, given to this type via his senses - this is what he trusts. Everything else is an illusion.
My son's daughter often says, in answer to a problem "I know somebody who__ [fixes this, is in charge of that, runs a _, etc.]". She does move forward cautiously (and thoughtfully) and is fine with learning from her mistakes.- The Politician (SEE): world is governed by connections, fame and prestige. The most cautious one of all sociotypes, as it learns everything by making mistakes. It moves forward exploring its way by touch and trusting only its senses. Words, concepts, ideas - all of these are only instruments for exerting influence on people.
Definitely they purposely influence the moods of others, for a good purpose, like working up others into good feelings about a big job they are all working on.- The Enthusiast (ESE): the world is ruled by impulse, fervor, attraction. The most emotive of all types capable of influencing the moods of others. This type can be considered to be part of idealist group, as it is able to do only that which it finds likable. However, its dependence on the emotional state of others is quite material.
My LSE brother's world is governed by work, and he thinks others' worlds should be too.- The Administrator (LSE): the world is governed by labor, by work. This type has the most materialistically directed type of psyche. It will base its argument only on existing knowledge and laws. Completely dependent on the process of work, subjugating its own plans to it. Will reject any theories or schemes if they are not presented in a form of already established methods.Yes, he readily objects to theories and ideas of mine sometimes without considering, and i give up quick, because its not worth it to get him to see it my way, generally.
I am thinking of the couple of ISTjs I know who are wonderful family men. I would say that if a LSI adopts a "functional family system", such as he one my brother adopted with the Catholic view of a husband who loves his wife like Christ loved the Church - he lays down his life for her - yes, he completely subjugates himself and the whole family thrives under this.- The Inspector (LSI): the world is governed by order and discipline. This type is most dependent on organization of its concrete environment, completely subjugating itself to its adopted system. Every major alternative is rejected since deviation from accepted and polished system is equivalent to losing foothold and descending into uncontrollable chaos.
My ESI Mom and I never understood each other. Its probably partly due to the fact that I was her Supervisor, but, there were other factors there in her psyche that are not Socionics related, too. However, I always esteemed in her her sense of moral duty. I always appreciated her example that you just do the right thing because you just do! You don't question it, you don't expect recognition for it, you just do it - quietly, and without complaining. I'd say it was the ONE thing that always stood out the most to me as far of my list of what I truly appreciate about her.The Guardian (ESI): the world is governed morality and moral duty. This type of mentality more than any other depends on its internal moral attitudes. The individual is in the right to treat others as they deserve. The existing system of relations and moral values is protected from any impositions from outside. Even objectively provoked passion can be brought under control at will.
Interesting description of SEI. I can see how some SEIs could go very, very wrong in life with a "the world is ruled by pleasure" philosophy!- The Broker (SEI): the world is ruled by pleasure. This sociotype will only do work that is pleasant and not tiresome. Quite conforming in behavior, this type easily adapts to the others believing that people will positively reciprocate if only an atmosphere of comfort is created and something is offered that will improve the pleasantness of their lives.
However ths SEI I know well is a model person admired by many. She was a farm girl raised to work very hard helping her Mom and Grandma help maintain a farm home with lots of hearty meals for the hard-working farm hand menof the house - her father, grandfather and 4 brothers. Her family were devout and humble Christians, and she was raised to be humble, serving and giving, with their example. She married her ILE husband and they had 4 very active kids. And I never would have guessed that her philosophy might be "the world is ruled by pleasure", as she was a very hard-working person, but I know that she truly took pleasure in her work, caring for her family, growing a huge garden and then canning and freezing, constantly cooking for her family and many guests, maintaining a large pantry with much effort in saving every cent at the stores, caring for 2 active family dogs all the while, and endless laundry and clothes shopping and housecleaning, but also the joy of making her home beautiful, sewing her own curtains, and maintaining a giant flower garden. And also there was a lot of hard work of many family vacations - all that packing and unpacking and planning... and keeping up their pool and extensive deck -- she truly takes pleasure in all of that. She also helped a lot at the kids school. She is known for her calm peaceful ways, and I think always taking pleasure in her work is one of her secrets.
I read this to my SLI dh, and he agrees. Of course, it is a simplification, but he has no argument with these statements. I agree, too.- The Master (SLI): the world is ruled by usefulness. In accordance with its philosophy this type will not do anything that it perceives as useless for itself and will never offer this to others. The principle of minimal action by which the physical world lives is its principle as well. As the most technologically-minded type, this type believes that the best argument is the one that appeals to the common sense of man.
"A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........
"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
attitude acceptable to today's standards." - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"
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