Delta: the "boring" Quadra?

[DirectorAbbie]

Hey! I like stereotypes!

[717495]

I prefer Socionics types.

[Nico1e]

Yeah Nico1e, i did get your point. It seems to me tho that assassinating some leader or other is not particularly revolutionary. I think that was the gist and joke, but the joke was kinda lost. Sorry, i think it's my fualt coz anyone would get a good joke, but not a lame one

Btw, the 'law' part was also a bit of a joke. And i think i understand where you're coming from about the hipocrisy issue - and i agree, don't think it's much better (re. war scenario).

I do have to say tho that if someone has to self-defend then, i dunno, they should have the right to do sth about it. Can't rob people of that, imo.

Anyway, why are we talking about this? lol. it was just the 'revolutionary assassination' part that got me. cheers

Oh, sorry about that, I didn't notice the joke, I got confused.

[Nico1e]

no.... no... delta is objectively the most boring quadra....

And that's refreshing for some people.

I'll second this. It's great to be surrounded by people who don't expect me to be flashy and 'fun' and full of energy. Boring is restful to those of us who feel a strain when we have to be constantly entertaining.

So I say something along the lines of 'I'm boring... and I'm okay with that.'

[Suz]

LSEs are extremely hard-working and perfectionistic, so they're ambitious in whatever field they choose. However, given that they're reasonable (Si) types, they don't necessarily want to choose a hypercompetitive and socially glamorous one, which is something that say SLEs tend to do.

Excellent point.

[Creepy-Snaps]

and I know many other Deltas who are incredibly hardworking, wanting to get ahead, moreso than other quadras who just want to socialize and live in the moment.

I would think Deltas are more likely to work hard because we A. really believe in the value of what we're doing; or B. want to earn more money to more fully enjoy life. Pure ambition has nothing to do with it.

I would agree with this. I really believe in the value of what I'm doing, and helping people ultimately, and want to 'get ahead' in life financially, so that I can retire sooner and enjoy life better to relax.

I also agree with what everyone has been saying about LSEs being ambitious.

I also agree with what walker31 said, something along the lines of people being able to be respectful despite quadra differences, if they're mature. Don't have the time right now to dig up the exact post to quote, but I think that was very insightful.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Now the next question to address is exactly which different quadras you ought to be respecting. If memory serves there's only one you haven't tried.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Now the next question to address is exactly which different quadras you ought to be respecting. If memory serves there's only one you haven't tried.

Great memory! And there's no question for which quadras I should be respecting, as I respect them all. And I'm pretty confident with my LSE typing now k0rpsey, although ESE is still a possibility. Of course you're entitled to think whatever you'd like.

[Simon Ssmall]

penis.

[ashlesha]

penis.

[Raver]

I feel like out of all the quadras, I'd say the delta quadra is often looked upon as the worst generally speaking by non-deltas. It's usually seen as the boring conservative quadra that has little impact on the world. The types in delta quadra are often portrayed as the least sociable and least ambitious....I thought quadras were supposed to be viewed as a circle, with no quadra being superior or inferior to the other, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

I think quadra progression descriptions are partially to blame for this. They commonly portray Alpha as the origin of all progress and innovation and new ideas, while Delta is inevitably associated with stagnation in society. Alpha is thus the rising sun of the socion and that sun falls with Delta whose job appears to be sweeping the streets in repetitive motions after the other three quadra get done (and enjoying it!). This story sounds rather one-sided and there have been attempts at describing this progression in reverse, but somehow even in descriptions of the reverse process Delta still ends up being the epicentre of the exciting "well nothing is happening here". There is indeed a second wave that is lashing in the opposite direction that originates with Ne-Fi rather than Ne-Ti and Deltas are at the very forefront of this wave. May be somebody from Delta can investigate this and see if quadra progression descriptions can be improved upon, as right now the story seems to be incomplete where Delta's role indeed sounds dull and inconsequential.

I agree this is the primary reason for this is the quadra being called Delta where it could be perceived as being lowest in rank, which is rather misleading. I think Deltas role in society may appear less exciting or interesting compared to the other quadras. However, its role is just as vital as the other quadras. The fact that its role is at the end does not undermine this whatsoever as each stage of the cycle is important.

[force my hand]

Delta as least ambitious? That's quite amusing because everyone else continually bitches about them being in power. I've seen that sentiment numerous times over the past 3 or 4 years.

Perhaps Deltas are the most consistent; that would appear to be boring to the more substance-abusing ADHD among us.

[Radio]

Perhaps Deltas are the most consistent; that would appear to be boring to the more substance-abusing ADHD among us.

Consistency is a horrific thought. :s I'm one of the least consistent people I can think of and this does nothing to increase my popularity, in fact it probably deters people away from me. I see people retain their old friendships that they've kept on for years, and/or resume contact with people they haven't spoken to for years and still be exactly as close and it boggles me because I can't do that. I am not the same person I was a few months ago. I am constantly changing and so are other people in relation with me, and if I talk to someone after a while, I have to readjust from the beginning, or eventually drift apart because we have both changed too much.

I'd say, in my experience at least, the boring image is the result of being unresponsive to the status quo, "coolness" and latest fads and trends and such.

[Raver]

I kind of regret calling this thread the boring quadra, I think calling it the underrated quadra would of been a better fit. The reason I made this thread is because I always felt that out of all the quadras, the delta quadra usually got the short end of the stick generally speaking by most non-deltas. It wasn't something I imagined or conceived as it is something I observed and all I did with this thread is point out what others have said. It was something that was whispered about for a long time and by airing it out publicly I'm hoping that it will naturally dispel itself.

Anyways, I think non-deltas too often focus on the negative aspects of the delta quadra, while ignoring the positive aspects. Instead choosing to highlight the positive aspects of their own precious quadras. Positive qualities to note about the delta quadra from my own observations include: resiliency, determination, optimism and independence. They are qualities of a delta type when they are healthy and I've noticed them in myself and other deltas when we are at our best. These qualities should make the delta quadra equivalent to other quadras.

[noid]

resiliency

resiliency dont exist. Its called substitution, at least for delta, even if you are not aware of it.

determination

yes, even if im not sure its always a quality.

optimism

yes

and independence

false impression commin from being too much attuned to other, and a need to revert it. Alpha are FAR MORE independant for example, without the need to think about it. This is a big trap to think this, and a healthy delta probably need more to embrace his interdependance.

Imo real quality are : loyalty, hard work, optimism, attuned to the potential of ppl and potential of idea toward a better world.
Other quality are for example the ability to highlight some important cause other dont see.
flaw can be : one track minded, obstination, perfectionnism


On the quadra progression, its easy to think about value of quadra and a supposed quality of them, but imo this is simply different "stage/state of the world". Each have their proper creativity, flaw, boring stuff, and quality.

[Raver]

resiliency

resiliency dont exist. Its called substitution, at least for delta, even if you are not aware of it.

determination

yes, even if im not sure its always a quality.

optimism

yes

and independence

false impression commin from being too much attuned to other, and a need to revert it. Alpha are FAR MORE independant for example, without the need to think about it.

Imo real quality are : loyalty, hard work, obstination, optimism, attuned to the potential of ppl.
Other quality are for example the ability to highlight some important cause other dont see.

Agreed, I realized that the qualities I wrote could relate to other quadra and the qualities you proposed are better fits. However, you could always flip it and the negative qualities assigned to Delta could also be assigned to other quadras as well if you look for it. Also, the idea of assigning broad qualities to quadras in itself a bit absurd, however I think if you're going to do it it might as well be positive qualities.

[noid]

Ive just thinked that there is some representative disorder for each quadra :
Alpha : asperger like
beta : histrionic
gamma : ? perhaps some narcissism feature, but not really sure, schizoid is a possibility, even if schizoid is not a really clear disorder and somewhat untypable
delta : OCD like, some narcissism feature
(not really serious)

Agreed, I realized that the qualities I wrote could relate to other quadra and the qualities you proposed are better fits. However, you could always flip it and the negative qualities assigned to Delta could also be assigned to other quadras as well if you look for it. Also, the idea of assigning broad qualities to quadras in itself a bit absurd, however I think if you're going to do it it might as well be positive qualities.

yes, qualities and flaws are relative, and self attributed quality and flaws without much reflection are useless to consider imo.
There is many way to assert quality and flaw at a personnal level wich perhaps can be extrapoled to quadra :
- self attribution
- external attribution
- self attribution + external attribution comparison
- self attribution + comparing to what have lead to great result and self gratification IRL comparison
- self attribution + comparing to what have lead to great result and self gratification IRL + external attribution comparison

these one jump on my head, there is probably many other way to assert


Imo, what is dangereous is that each tend to attribute qualitie on themself (indirectly into quadra) about where they are more neurotic and fight the more, leading to false self image. Independance is important for delta BUT ITS NOT one of their quality, its actually their flaw to be too attuned.
Same with resilience : I think delta quadra is the one who have hardest time to release object, because they can sometime be strongly identified with object throught Fi.

[noid]

Another way to assert quality is to look at problem generated with valued function : these problem lead to valuable creative solution.
For example, the guy from antiquity who was on the course for independance, was on street, see a bird drink at a fountain and decide to stop to use a recipient for achieving more independance was perhaps a delta. (the guy was having a name, wich I dont remember ).

If there's anything to the notion, I suspect that each stage in the quadra cycle has both a positive and negative phase to it—ascension (+), peak, descent (-). Wherein each stage can be seen as a reaction to the one preceding it (though the progression isn't always linear—i.e. it doesn't always go in strict sequence of α → β → γ → δ…). Reactions that are partially driven by antagonisms between centralization (β, δ) vs. decentralization (α, γ).

Ive thinked the same in more simplistic term ^^, but im really interested about reading more about this. This make sens.

[Creepy-Snaps]

It wasn't something I imagined or conceived as it is something I observed and all I did with this thread is point out what others have said. It was something that was whispered about for a long time and by airing it out publicly I'm hoping that it will naturally dispel itself.

I'm glad you pointed this out on your own, as it was something I didn't want to mention on the 1st page until you had realized it on your own. I'm glad you had good intentions of dispelling the stereotypes, but I think it could have been done slightly better, to keep in mind for the future.

People subconsciously remember what was said, anything that enters into their minds. Quite often, the best way to dispel a stereotype, is just not to talk about it anymore, and let it die on its own. A racist slur, constantly repeated, and mentioned that it isn't true, will only stay in people's minds even longer. Mentioning that it's not true doesn't matter, if it's constantly being 'refreshed' in people's minds.

I heard this from a professional speaker once: it's very similar to the huge mistake unknowing parents tend to make, when they tell their children REPEATEDLY "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." .................... NOW when kids go out on their weekends, what do they think about? Well... what's been drilled in their minds? DRINKING, DOING DRUGS, AND HAVING SEX. It doesn't matter that there was a "don't" message in there, as people tend to psychologically remember the substance long-term, not the side messages.

Like you said, if you titled this thread 'The underrated Quadra', people would start to think of Delta as having more positive values than people notice, and would create a more positive impression of Delta long-term, as you have picked up.

Just like if parents tell their kids, "Read, study, be responsible", and pound that positive message into their brains, in the same amount of effort, wise parents are going to have kids who grow up and avoid a lot of the pitfalls, simply because the parents focused on the positive.

Once again, I'm glad you realized this on your own, and you had great intentions in making the thread. But I felt the need to comment and expand a little further. Again, sometimes the best way to make negative stereotypes die, is to not mention them, but focus on the positive, as people subconsciously remember what's pounded in their heads constantly, regardless of whether it's positive or negative, do or don't. The repetition of the message becomes their reality.

[Raver]

Ive just thinked that there is some representative disorder for each quadra :
Alpha : asperger like
beta : histrionic
gamma : ? perhaps some narcissism feature, but not really sure, schizoid is a possibility, even if schizoid is not a really clear disorder and somewhat untypable
delta : OCD like, some narcissism feature
(not really serious)

Interesting, but I think these qualities are very general and can apply to any quadra. However, I will not deny that some disorders are more prevalent among quadras, I think they'll be distributed a bit different than the ones you mentioned. Though you're not being serious as you stated.

yes, qualities and flaws are relative, and self attributed quality and flaws without much reflection are useless to consider imo.
There is many way to assert quality and flaw at a personnal level wich perhaps can be extrapoled to quadra :
- self attribution
- external attribution
- self attribution + external attribution comparison
- self attribution + comparing to what have lead to great result and self gratification IRL comparison
- self attribution + comparing to what have lead to great result and self gratification IRL + external attribution comparison

these one jump on my head, there is probably many other way to assert

Yeah, I didn't bother doing this only because it might of taken longer than I wanted, but it's a good way to accurately analyze quadras and their qualities.

It wasn't something I imagined or conceived as it is something I observed and all I did with this thread is point out what others have said. It was something that was whispered about for a long time and by airing it out publicly I'm hoping that it will naturally dispel itself.

I'm glad you pointed this out on your own, as it was something I didn't want to mention on the 1st page until you had realized it on your own. I'm glad you had good intentions of dispelling the stereotypes, but I think it could have been done slightly better, to keep in mind for the future.

People subconsciously remember what was said, anything that enters into their minds. Quite often, the best way to dispel a stereotype, is just not to talk about it anymore, and let it die on its own. A racist slur, constantly repeated, and mentioned that it isn't true, will only stay in people's minds even longer. Mentioning that it's not true doesn't matter, if it's constantly being 'refreshed' in people's minds.

I heard this from a professional speaker once: it's very similar to the huge mistake unknowing parents tend to make, when they tell their children REPEATEDLY "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." "Don't drink, do drugs, or have sex." .................... NOW when kids go out on their weekends, what do they think about? Well... what's been drilled in their minds? DRINKING, DOING DRUGS, AND HAVING SEX. It doesn't matter that there was a "don't" message in there, as people tend to psychologically remember the substance long-term, not the side messages.

Like you said, if you titled this thread 'The underrated Quadra', people would start to think of Delta as having more positive values than people notice, and would create a more positive impression of Delta long-term, as you have picked up.

Just like if parents tell their kids, "Read, study, be responsible", and pound that positive message into their brains, in the same amount of effort, wise parents are going to have kids who grow up and avoid a lot of the pitfalls, simply because the parents focused on the positive.

Once again, I'm glad you realized this on your own, and you had great intentions in making the thread. But I felt the need to comment and expand a little further. Again, sometimes the best way to make negative stereotypes die, is to not mention them, but focus on the positive, as people subconsciously remember what's pounded in their heads constantly, regardless of whether it's positive or negative, do or don't. The repetition of the message becomes their reality.

Excellent points, I agree with you wholeheartedly! Only in retrospection am I able to notice how true this is.

[noid]

Though you're not being serious as you stated.

I was not serious and just venting cuz ive not really analyzed seriously this stuff.
Anyway, I was serious on histrionic : various description of histrionic PD correlate strongly with description and function order.
There is a possibility too that as narcissism, there exist "intellectual" and "somatic histrionic" who will be respectively and .

But I think its somewhat tricky to do 100% sure correlation, cuz the term "personnality disorder" imply that the personnality is.... mmhh... Disordered. So there is a possibility that apparent function of a personnality guy come from id, super ego, ect...

Im off thread, sry, Ill perhaps do a specific thread on this when I will be motivated.
I think that socionic basics can be a GREAT help to psychiatry, psychiatric research, DSM classification, perhaps neurologic research,ect.

[Nico1e]

Good name, I like 'The Underrated Quadra.' I also know a few of 'The Underrated Types' in socionics, too. It usually happens when their type descriptions were written by their conflictors, and it's almost impossible to find a decent description that shows all the entire 'scope' of the type (I think this was something FDG said), all their variations. Sorry, pet peeve right at the moment.

[noid]

The notion of top-good and top-bad dont exist in socionics. Each have flaw, each have quality.
It come only from the perpetual ego fight on this forum.
Beginning to brainfuck and pinpoint on this is hiding other better and more global potential for socionic.

[EyeSeeCold]

Good name, I like 'The Underrated Quadra.' I also know a few of 'The Underrated Types' in socionics, too. It usually happens when their type descriptions were written by their conflictors, and it's almost impossible to find a decent description that shows all the entire 'scope' of the type (I think this was something FDG said), all their variations. Sorry, pet peeve right at the moment.

Beta - The Overrated Quadra.

[Lubingo]

I'm delta, and I think it has to do with certain types in the quadra. I dislike the f-types in my quadra and I think thats why delta gets a bad rep...

[Radio]

I'm delta, and I think it has to do with certain types in the quadra. I dislike the f-types in my quadra and I think thats why delta gets a bad rep...

Then you're not Delta. Shoo. Go.

[Cat King Cole]

I read one article that associated Delta with social criticism. This is definitely a defining IEE characteristic at any rate (Traveler and Rick instantly spring to mind, as does the celebrity Sasha Baron Cohen).

[krieger]

delta being at the final stage of quadra progression means it's the quadra of perfectionism. this in itself has many positive features.

[fen]

Why are we supposedly "boring"?
What about us is boring?

[Pa3s]

Deltas might be less likely to take risks in general. Playing safe in every aspect of life because you fear to fail/lose something isn't really that exciting.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Deltas are generally viewed as 'boring' or the 'senior citizens of the socion' because they are both 'Serious' and 'Judicious'. http://www.socionics.com/articles/mmexpl.html . That link provides a great explanation of the difference.

Basically explains that Deltas generally don't show much Fe emotion, and they take their words and promises very seriously, don't want to over-promise and under-deliver. Not showing emotion and taking your words seriously might be boring to some, but the good part about Deltas is they work incredibly hard and tend to be the most reliable, because they generally follow-through with what they say.

[fen]

Deltas are generally viewed as 'boring' or the 'senior citizens of the socion' because they are both 'Serious' and 'Judicious'. http://www.socionics.com/articles/mmexpl.html . That link provides a great explanation of the difference.

Basically explains that Deltas generally don't show much Fe emotion, and they take their words and promises very seriously, don't want to over-promise and under-deliver. Not showing emotion and taking your words seriously might be boring to some, but the good part about Deltas is they work incredibly hard and tend to be the most reliable, because they generally follow-through with what they say.

That link was really helpful. I appreciated the bullet points so I could easily compare/contrast. But I'm not sure why these traits would make someone seem boring, really.
If anything, this site suggests that gamma is more boring than delta. O.o

-Beta quadra have mature perception and childish judgment (Decisive and Merry);
-Delta quadra have childish perception and mature judgment (Judicious and Serious);
-Alpha quadra have childish perception and judgment (Judicious and Merry);
-Gamma quadra have mature perception and judgment (Decisive and Serious);

[willekeurig]

I always thought gamma was the "boring" quadra, too. Ne is like the opposite force of boringness, to me at least.

[ashlesha]

has anybody in real life called you boring? all I saw was somebody call a concept called "Delta" boring. if anybody can't tell the difference between concepts and people and is stupid enough to consider you boring for no other reason than that they associate you with a concept called "Delta," then fuck them.

boring is not a descriptor that would come to mind if I were to describe you, fen.

[DirectorAbbie]

We don't blow things up, become billionaires overnight, or eat fire while standing on our heads. BORING

[fen]

has anybody in real life called you boring? all I saw was somebody call a concept called "Delta" boring. if anybody can't tell the difference between concepts and people and is stupid enough to consider you boring for no other reason than that they associate you with a concept called "Delta," then fuck them.

boring is not a descriptor that would come to mind if I were to describe you, fen.

Well, my ILE friend thinks I'm pretty boring I think. Hah. I think he's boring too though.
No one has really said I'm boring, I don't think. But I definitely feel boring. I'm pretty um...I dunno the word. I dunno. I just feel boring.
Thanks, Kassie.

I think I'm just trying to understand the stereotype of Delta "boringness".

[Radio]

[Pa3s]

I think I was called both boring and square. However, iirc the person calling me such was pretty retarded in both cases, so nevermind.

And as Huey Lewis already told us, it is actually hip to be square.

[ashlesha]

lol, judicious+serious at its worst.

[Park]

Deltas might be less likely to take risks in general. Playing safe in every aspect of life because you fear to fail/lose something isn't really that exciting.

Ha! Then I'm surely Beta.