Best enneagram type matches for beta dualities

[redbaron]

Okay so for those betas who are in duality relationships, what do you think are the best enneatype matches?

I know an SLE E-7, and two SLE E-8s. I'm IEI E-4 but I test pretty darn high for E-9 also. It's probably just personal preference, yes? I know SLEs can be E-3 also.

What are your experiences?

LSIs and EIEs can answer this too!

I've also been thinking about tcauds dual-type theory some as well. I feel like the SLE E-8 I know is probably ENFj EM type. This doesn't have to be discussed in this thread but it's interesting how the EM types have been popping out at me a bit recently.

[silverchris9]

Hmmm. I'll definitely listen to songs over and over again, but I hate watching most movies more than once.


I don't think that any Etype/socionics combo is necessarily ideal.

I would say IEI-4 SLE-8 have the highest potential for compatibility, since they're like one another flipped inside out. But probably also a high probability for destructiveness and craziness. Like the Bonnie and Clyde pairing. Especially if both were sx-first.

These things are tough to generalize. Probably have a lot to do with upbringing and like, what parts of your personality life has helped you really strengthen and make awesome and what parts are weaker or less developed or something.

[stray]

I'm happy listening to the same song over and over again if it's interesting enough, listening to the differnet layers and noticing new details each time, getting to the "heart" of the song, whereas he can't listen to more than 3 songs by the same artist in a row without getting bored. Same with movies, books etc. Maybe someone who actually knows enneagram stuff can say whether it's related?

I'm the same way too. Once I like something, it's ridiculous how many times I'll go back to it.


I often test as e4(w5), but I kind of resent it too. 5w4 appeals to me more, for it's lack of pretentiousness and dependency. I can't stand that shit. Not in myself or in others. The way some descriptions describe it sound like the opposite of authenticity. Fuck a self-styled bohemian. Real ones are very cool, but they do not announce themselves like the posers E4s sound like. It's harder to come by.

I'm not trying to attack any 4s here btw. It's said that healthy ones own up to things. This is all I want.

[Aleksei]

Not in a relationship right now, but I do have a female LSI friend I'm puttin' moves on. She's a 6w5 sx/sp, and we click ridiculously well.

As for compatibility, my best working theory right now is that your best Enneatype match is your type-identical with flipped wings. Same core motives, complementary skillsets.

[Gilly]

Most common:

EIE-Fe: 3w2, 3w4
EIE-Ni: 3w4, 8w7

LSI-Ti: 1w2, 6w5
LSI-Se: 6w7, 8w7

SLE-Ti: 3w2, 8w7
SLE-Se: 7w8, 3w2

IEI-Fe: 4w3, 3w4
IEI-Ni: 4w3, 4w5

[Gilly]

Not in a relationship right now, but I do have a female LSI friend I'm puttin' moves on. She's a 6w5 sx/sp, and we click ridiculously well.

As for compatibility, my best working theory right now is that your best Enneatype match is your type-identical with flipped wings. Same core motives, complementary skillsets.

I definitely disagree...I think there is a pretty big fundamental problem with having 2 people together with the same fixation/unconscious weak spot, it really doesn't make sense.

Basic enneagram compatibilities I have drawn:

3 and 5
7 and 4
7 and 2
8 and 6 (stormy but highly compatible IME)
4 and 9
8 and 5
1 and 6
3 and 6
6 and 9
9 and 3

[discojoe]

Most common:

EIE-Fe: 3w2, 3w4
EIE-Ni: 3w4, 8w7

LSI-Ti: 1w2, 6w5
LSI-Se: 6w7, 8w7

SLE-Ti: 3w2, 8w7
SLE-Se: 7w8, 3w2

IEI-Fe: 4w3, 3w4
IEI-Ni: 4w3, 4w5

LSI-Tis are 1w9s, not 1w2s. 1w2 sounds like an ENFp if anything.

[Aleksei]

I definitely disagree...I think there is a pretty big fundamental problem with having 2 people together with the same fixation/unconscious weak spot, it really doesn't make sense.

Explain.

[Aleksei]

EIE-Fe: 3w2, 3w4

4w3, 8w7

EIE-Ni: 3w4, 8w7

7w8, 4w3

LSI-Ti: 1w2, 6w5

1w9, 6w5

LSI-Se: 6w7, 8w7

Yep.

SLE-Ti: 3w2, 8w7

6w7, 8w7

SLE-Se: 7w8, 3w2

Yes.

IEI-Fe: 4w3, 3w4

4w3, 6w5

IEI-Ni: 4w3, 4w5

Yes.

[Gilly]

Explain.

Really?

I mean, imagine two blind people dating each other. Sure, they might know what kind of help the other needs, because they need it themselves, but how are they supposed to deliver?

[Gilly]

4w3, 8w7


7w8, 4w3


1w9, 6w5


Yep.


6w7, 8w7


Yes.


4w3, 6w5


Yes.

4 is an anomolous type for an EIE; 4s are intrinsically introverted. 3 is probably the most native type to EIEs as a whole. Stop projecting your (probably incorrect) self-typing.

[Aleksei]

4 is an anomolous type for an EIE; 4s are intrinsically introverted.

4s are intrinsically withdrawn, which is different -- they withdraw from the external world to deal with their own inner turmoil (which generally speaking is very Beta NF in general). 4w3s are quite distinct from 4w5s in this manner, in that they (and especially Social versions thereof) seek to present their self-identity and creativity to the world, and have it accepted. Perfectly fitting for EIE. EIE-Fe in particular is almost guaranteed to be some sort of Turbulent (usually one of the more assertive wings of 8, 4 and cp6 in that order).

3 is probably the most native type to EIEs as a whole.

3 is by no means rare as an EIE type, but being a Suppressed type it's slightly less likely than 4.

Stop projecting your (probably incorrect) self-typing.

Troll harder.

I mean, imagine two blind people dating each other. Sure, they might know what kind of help the other needs, because they need it themselves, but how are they supposed to deliver?

Uhm... however they deliver for themselves? Enneagram theory defines personality as developing as compensation for one's weak spots -- presumably somebody who has developed a compensation strategy for one's weak spots would know what the other person needs.

My theory is that 1) A person will best tolerate somebody who has the same core motivating factors as themselves, as they identify with them, and 2) differing wings would give slightly different coping strategies to each, which would ultimately end up complementing each other. Take for example, an SLE-Te 8w7 and an IEI-Fe 8w9. The IEI 8w9 would be a full-on manipulative bastard (or bitch as the case may be), who'd know how to slyly maneuver into positions of power, and keep the hot-headedness of their 8w7 dual in check. Conversely, the 8w7 could take over when the battle gets a little too hot for the 8w9.

[Aleksei]

Here's what an EIE 4 (Sexual 4w3 to be exact) looks like:

[Gilly]

4s are intrinsically withdrawn, which is different -- they withdraw from the external world to deal with their own inner turmoil (which generally speaking is very Beta NF in general). 4w3s are quite distinct from 4w5s in this manner, in that they (and especially Social versions thereof) seek to present their self-identity and creativity to the world, and have it accepted. Perfectly fitting for EIE. EIE-Fe in particular is almost guaranteed to be some sort of Turbulent (usually one of the more assertive wings of 8, 4 and cp6 in that order).


3 is by no means rare as an EIE type, but being a Suppressed type it's slightly less likely than 4.

Why is that? And why are you basing this off of theoretical aspects? I hardly see how that would be useful. My offerings are based off of observed real life correlations and behavioral tendencies; you seem to be talking out of your ass.

My theory is that 1) A person will best tolerate somebody who has the same core motivating factors as themselves, as they identify with them, and 2) differing wings would give slightly different coping strategies to each, which would ultimately end up complementing each other. Take for example, an SLE-Te 8w7 and an IEI-Fe 8w9. The IEI 8w9 would be a full-on manipulative bastard (or bitch as the case may be), who'd know how to slyly maneuver into positions of power, and keep the hot-headedness of their 8w7 dual in check. Conversely, the 8w7 could take over when the battle gets a little too hot for the 8w9.

You explain well how they could work together functionally, however I'm not convinced that this speaks to psychological compatibility and the potential for self-development, which is the absolute heart of the entire enneagram theory.

[Aleksei]

Why is that?

Because of Fe.

And why are you basing this off of theoretical aspects?

Well theoretical aspects define type -- EIE only exists within the parameters of what EIE is defined to be.

But in any case I'm actually not. On the 8-function subtype model (which is what I use), EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni both seem to be absolutely best-correlated to 4w3 (the video I just posted, for example, is EIE-EIE). Other types of J-EIE seem best correlated to 8 or 6, and other types of P-EIE (mostly I've found C-EIE to be more common than H-EIE) seem best correlated to 7, 3 and 1 in that order.

[Gilly]

Because of Fe.

I don't think you properly understand Fe, then. Fe is precisely about controlling and channelling emotions into expression, not simply blurting them out. In fact, as far as suppressing emotions from external expression goes, Fe types are probably the most guilty, both because they tend to be the least emotionally subdued internally, and also have the highest capacity to control their expression. So Fe types being Supressed enneatypes is actually a rather perfect fit; Reactive types would be more likely to be irrational, if anything.

Well theoretical aspects define type -- EIE only exists within the parameters of what EIE is defined to be.

Right, but those theoretical parameters only extend so far; real life fills in the rest. And real life experiences, in both my opinion from a theoretical standpoint and my personal experiences, have a drastic impact on enneatypes.

Personally I do not know a single EIE 4 in real life.

[Aleksei]

I don't think you properly understand Fe, then. Fe is precisely about controlling and channelling emotions into expression, not simply blurting them out.

I realize -- and nor do 4s blurt out emotions willy-nilly either, which is precisely the reason why 4 is a withdrawn type -- they focus primarily on their own internal image and their internal emotions, and secondarily on carefully concealing these internal emotions from the external world, lest they be rejected or their self-image challenged. 4w3's performer instincts consist of releasing their inner state in a way that others will confirm it and approve of it, as opposed to challenge it.

3s on the other hand are entirely oblivious of their inner state and personal image, and instead create and act out an image that they believe is the epitome of success, that will garner them admiration.

[Cat King Cole]

3 and 5
7 and 4
7 and 2
8 and 6 (stormy but highly compatible IME)
4 and 9
8 and 5
1 and 6
3 and 6
6 and 9
9 and 3

I notice 7 and 9 are absent.

ILE + SEI = ?

5 and 9?

LII + SEI = ?

Neither Activity nor Duality are compatible across the board, according to this. Too headachey to look through Gamma. Duality I could see as being fundamentally not a relationship of "compatibility", but Activity?

As for compatibility, my best working theory right now is that your best Enneatype match is your type-identical with flipped wings. Same core motives, complementary skillsets.

So the optimal compatibility for someone with balanced wings is someone else with balanced wings.

Not IME. Not at all. Same problem with Identity in Socionics, you butt horns too much.

[Gilly]

Neither Activity nor Duality are compatible across the board, according to this. Too headachey to look through Gamma. Duality I could see as being fundamentally not a relationship of "compatibility", but Activity?

Well for one you are presuming isolative correlations. I dont see a single dual pair that couldn't be accounted for by these correlations, personally.

7 and 9 is a good one, though. Also perhaps 8 and 1.

[redbaron]

I think 4 (IEI) and 8 (SLE) too. I know a couple of those.

[discojoe]

I think you're compatible with your disintegration and integration types.

[Gilly]

I think 4 (IEI) and 8 (SLE) too. I know a couple of those.

I see that it makes sense for Se dom and Ni dom, it would certainly be convenient, but I don't really see in practice or theory what would make them especially compatible.

[Gilly]

I think you're compatible with your disintegration and integration types.

I dunno, with the exception of the main circuit of the enneagram (3, 6, 9) I tend to think that integration and disintegration relationships are kind of like Benefit in Socionics: great for one, not so great for the other.

[stray]

Personally, I'd rather hang with a 7. 8 tends to have a more production-oriented mindset (or so I think). That's not going to balance me out, personally. It'd probably piss me off half of the time.

[Gilly]

Yeah, I think the only way 4s and 8s are really compatible in terms of their fixations is if they are partners in crime or have a mutual enemy or something.

[redbaron]

partners in crime

do you guys ever read the "type compatibility" charts at the Riso-Hudson enneagram site?

[Gilly]

No, these are just my own conclusions.

[Gilly]

do you guys ever read the "type compatibility" charts at the Riso-Hudson enneagram site?

They pretty much say all types are compatible. Foolish post-modern nonsense.

[Clumsy]

I think 4 (IEI) and 8 (SLE) too. I know a couple of those.

Do you think this match works out pretty well from your pov?

What are the strengths/weaknesses/other things you notice about this combination (of 4 IEI, 8 SLE), if you don't mind me asking?

[redbaron]

Do you think this match works out pretty well from your pov?

What are the strengths/weaknesses/other things you notice about this combination (of 4 IEI, 8 SLE), if you don't mind me asking?

I think it depends on the health of the individuals involved. It can get stormy if they're unhealthy but it can also be satisfying when working together toward a shared goal. they're both passionate types and complementary in many ways. But a 4w3 especially can be stubborn, as can an 8. I think a 4w5 can deal with an 8 as long as they don't allow themselves to be too controlled by the 8. This depends in large part on the 8 and how healthy they are as well.

[Gilly]

I think the point of greatest compatibility, actually, would be the 4's unwillingness to let the 8 control or "change" them. 4s are ruthlessly independent; they are the psychic/emotional equivalent to the 8's real-world preternatural awareness, at least when it comes to controlling their own inner states.

[Aleksei]

Following up on this, I actually took review of the EIEs I know and their subtypes and Enneatypes. Came up with some interesting conclusions. To wit:

1) Nearly every single EIE I know personally is an N-EIE.
2) Perhaps most fittingly to the above, it seems to be the norm for EIEs to be either 6, or have a connection to 6.
3) I take back 4 being the norm for EIEs (as above), but it is far from an anomaly. Most notably, most EIE artists are 4, and I have yet to meet a single H-EIE who wasn't a 4w3. Tentatively I'd type David Tennant (EIE-SEI) a 1w9, but that's about it; and strictly speaking I haven't quite met. the guy. A list of EIEs I know, with subtype and enneatype (tritype if I know it):

EIE-ESI cp6w7 > 2w3 > 9w1 sx/sp (ENFP)
EIE-LII 7w6pr so/sx (ENFP)
EIE-LII 1w2 > 2w3 > pr6w7 so/sx (ESFJ)
EIE-LII p6w7 > 3w2 > 1w2 so/sx (ESFJ)
EIE-ESE 7w6p > f9w1 > 2w3 sx/so (ENFJ)
EIE-IEI 4w3 > 7w6cp > f9w8 sx/sp (ENFP)
EIE-LII 3w2 > 7w6pr > 1w9f sp/so (ENTP)
EIE-LIE 3w4 > 8w9f > 7w8 sp/so (ESTJ)

[stray]

EIE-ESI cp6w7 > 2w3 > 9w1 sx/sp (ENFP)
EIE-LII 7w6pr so/sx (ENFP)
EIE-LII 1w2 > 2w3 > pr6w7 so/sx (ESFJ)
EIE-LII p6w7 > 3w2 > 1w2 so/sx (ESFJ)
EIE-ESE 7w6p > f9w1 > 2w3 sx/so (ENFJ)
EIE-IEI 4w3 > 7w6cp > f9w8 sx/sp (ENFP)
EIE-LII 3w2 > 7w6pr > 1w9f sp/so (ENTP)
EIE-LIE 3w4 > 8w9f > 7w8 sp/so (ESTJ)

Convoluted garbage. Just on an aesthetic level alone.

[Cat King Cole]

Alexei, if you're using f/s 9, the wings are different. f9 has wings 5 and 7, s9 has wings 1 and 4.

[Galen]

wtf are all these new letters you're all spewing about?

[Aleksei]

Convoluted garbage. Just on an aesthetic level alone.

Oh, I'm sorry if I offended your aesthetic sensibility by realizing humans are more complex than what one 16-type system can cover.

Alexei, if you're using f/s 9, the wings are different. f9 has wings 5 and 7, s9 has wings 1 and 4.

Sez who? I'm using f/s9 the same way p/cp6 is used -- doesn't mean I agree with the rearranged enneagram chart.

wtf are all these new letters you're all spewing about?

The second sociotype is subtype (off DCNH functions). From Enneagram, we have Fast/Slow 9, and Phobic/CP/Prussian 6.

[ashlesha]

Oh, I'm sorry if I offended your aesthetic sensibility by realizing humans are more complex than what one 16-type system can cover.

all we need is 7 billion subtypes

[Aleksei]

Not quite that complex, but in any case combining 5 or 6 systems yields even more permutations than that.

[ashlesha]

have fun perfectly understanding every human being

[Galen]

The second sociotype is subtype (off DCNH functions). From Enneagram, we have Fast/Slow 9, and Phobic/CP/Prussian 6.

Oh right, that.

Why not just create separate, arbitrary dichotomies for every other enneatype then? Keep things systemized.