How much do subtypes *actually* impact duality?

[yurijesus]

This is more of a "I want to know what everyone else has experienced" sort of post rather than a genuine question, but I'm curious about everyone's experiences with subtypes and duality. For instance, I'm (ESI-Se) friends with both an ESI-Fi and LIE-Te and find them both to be super uptight and unable to take a joke or view things from others perspectives. My partner is an ILI-Te, and while I do get frustrated from time to time about the rational/irrational difference and her lack of foresight for how her actions might make others feel, we get on a lot better than I do with LIE-Te's. Have you guys experienced anything similar to this? What is your experience with various subtypes of your dual/other members of our quadra?

[FreelancePoliceman]

Yeah, I think that's most people's experience. I'm a relatively extraverted LII, and I tend to get along better with relatively introverted ESEs.

You might look into DCNH, which is another proposed subtype system. Supposedly dominant with normalizing partners, and creative with harmonizing partners, get along best. I am less sure of my ability to type people in the system (and of the system itself), but I'd hesitantly type myself as a harmonizer, and would say the types of people I tend to really like are creatives, so that seems to fit my experience.

[Disturbed]

yes, subtypes make huge difference. an extravert should go with an introvert and couples should be subtyped towards the same quadra. the main reason aushra augusta invented socionics was for extraverts and introverts with the same values to have lasting relationships.

i tend to need someone more extraverted (especially cognitively and in terms of activity level) and more skilled in practicality, logic yet have similar preferences and at least for my partner to have few preferences and to respect mine. i have strong likes/loves and dislikes (mainly about things, methods, and ideas, but some people i love a lot more than i love others), and i want my partner to at least be okay with bias and having favorites and at least sometimes supportive of mine.

[yurijesus]

yes, subtypes make huge difference. an extravert should go with an introvert and couples should be subtyped towards the same quadra. the main reason aushra augusta invented socionics was for extraverts and introverts with the same values to have lasting relationships.

i tend to need someone more extraverted (especially cognitively and in terms of activity level) and more skilled in practicality, logic yet have similar preferences and at least for my partner to have few preferences and to respect mine. i have strong likes/loves and dislikes (mainly about things, methods, and ideas, but some people i love a lot more than i love others), and i want my partner to at least be okay with bias and having favorites and at least sometimes supportive of mine.

i wasn't talking about extroverts or introverts, i was specifically talking about the socionics types irrational/rational subtypes and whether that impacts duality.

[khaki]

Sounds like you're SEE-ish enough for your partner and your partner is LIE-ish enough for you to make something between activation and duality to work while LIE-Te is perhaps a bit too much. It would be interesting to know how these two friends of yours, the LIE-Te and the ESI-Fi get along with each other. On paper, they should complement each other perfectly.

[BrainlessSquid]

Subtypes is what ultimately will disclosure the actual comfort levels and how much clashes there might be. I've met 3 incompatible duals and 1 compatible due to differences in subtype. My identical cousin though is another subtype of IEE and he gets along a lot better with one of the duals I've mentioned. They even had a fling which resulted in both cheating on their current (at the time) partners. I also tried something with that one girl but it just didn't click. With the dual I'm now, even though she resembles the other 3, the emotional and mental connection is just better. But still I can predict a lot of things about her basing purely on my previous experience with the other duals.

I should say that there are not only two subtypes. I guess there might be dozens of different subtypes for a given type. So most dualities will not be textbook Aushra-descriptions-like and probably not as amazing as the theory states. But surely any dual will help you in improving as a person.

That realization is rather comforting and a relief. To know not all duals are meant to be together by just meeting and dualizing. I'm extremely jealous, but my specific subtype and hers are not common, so I'm happy we met.

[Tallmo]

You can examine subtype matches disconnected from duality. It's easier that way, you get more examples. There are many examples. Take Roman Polanski (IEI-C) and Emmanuelle Seigner (IEI-H). These kind of matches are very common (D+N) and (C+H). Or Trump (D) and Melania (N).

But I wouldnt be religious about it. Socionics talks about a kind of complementarity, but in reality you might want a non-dual and subtypes that dont follow dcnh.

[one]

If you're very picky, yes. But in general as a Harmie I prefer Cs and Hs no matter the type if it's just about working together. Communication may be off but at least I won't get bothered by the pacing. If they are a j it doesn't matter very much if they are C/H, though if I really really want to judge someone, I would say j temperament to me just doesn't give that spark - if Ij it's boring, if Ej it's too abrasive. So in the end others are okay if you don't focus on it too much, Eps are just lit and fun. It's not rare to find p people comment about how shitty j effect is and how they want to hit their head on the wall over it.

I both get and don't get the idea that duality is supposed to be perfect. There is just a big difference that is further emphasized by different interests even though you say it's complementary or what. It's really up to you what you want to focus on because you can also get annoyed with that, or appreciate how you guys roll together really well. If it's quadra-mate but not dual there is an immediate feeling that you guys are cut from the same cloth, which is not that wrong though it's just easier to see because specially with ILIs they hit your introversion. You guys are more similar when it comes to general attitude. It would be obvious to you that you'll get along well together than it is with LIE.

To me base types determine recognition, subtypes make you remember or forget there was even recognition in the first place lol. Easy to say you can always see forest for the trees but that is only when you don't have to do the daily grind and cut trees.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't really know, I don't think I notice the SLE-Tis very much. I think I'm a very IEI-Ni so I'm always naturally attracting and wanting a SLE-Se like subconsciously. I couldn't really tell you. Just basically yeah duality can be overrated- you can like or dislike a lot of people for non socionics reasons. There have been deltas I admired and liked and Betas I absolutely couldn't stand/agreed with the LSE judge that they should spend life in prison lawl.

[DEAD]

I don't really know, I don't think I notice the SLE-Tis very much. I think I'm a very IEI-Ni so I'm always naturally attracting and wanting a SLE-Se like subconsciously.

Feel my wrath, as I annihliate your bussy with my tip of pleasure. You will be screaming harder, and harder as I sting you. You'll be screaming for mercy, mercy. Like a hot scolding gayser pouring molten lava on your butt, butt, butt.

(How was that?)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

LMAO perfect. thanks @DEAD

[yurijesus]

Sounds like you're SEE-ish enough for your partner and your partner is LIE-ish enough for you to make something between activation and duality to work while LIE-Te is perhaps a bit too much. It would be interesting to know how these two friends of yours, the LIE-Te and the ESI-Fi get along with each other. On paper, they should complement each other perfectly.

they're sort of vague acquaintances, but knowing both of them if they interacted more closely they'd probably stick together like glue! i've been wanting to encourage them to get closer/matchmake but i'm giving them some more time to warm up to each other first to avoid any feelings of being rushed :-)

[virtualization]

hey! I’m esi-fi and ( used ) to be close friends with a LIE-te, as well as a ILI-Ni and ILI-Te.
ILI-Ni was too passive for me, but our conversations went so well. She’s wayyy too quiet though, rarely speaks her mind ngl. I had to help her learn how to communicate in social settings and how to text better.
LIE- Te. Considered her one of my closest friends, we get along very great and I realized we match a lot of what we think is good MORALLY compared to my other friends ( im usually arguing with ESEs on this topic ) . Off subtype description though, LIE-Te sounds so serious and intimidating , and I preferred LIE-Ni off the description more because they sound affectionate and clingy .
Like that person said , LIE-Te and ESI-Fi fit together on paper perfectly. Idk how though so if someone explained , that would be awesome.
the ILI-te is more industrious in a sense, out there in the real world. He has a lot of aquantiences like my LIE-te friend. ( I can’t spell) . Like my LIE-Te friend though, we can argue over stupid things. The ILI-Nis seem to be more passive and conflict avoidant so I rarely argue with them or they make me realize how stubborn I can be and I stop.
Idk man, idk what to prefer, or who to prefer. Wish I could meet a LIE-Ni though, I’m sure one of my friends is one and she’s super sweet and always initiating to talk to me, clingy in a way so I like it.
All the ILIs though are clingy in a way. The LIE doesn’t seem to like being clingy or come off as that way, she’s so image oriented bro ..
I do believe subtypes can impact duality though but shouldn’t be like a super super big factor idk , but then again I wouldn’t get along with my LSE-si friend as much if she was a LSE-Te. Though all LSEs I know personally are sweethearts.

[Adam Strange]

I'm LIE-Te, and in my experience, there is a very noticeable difference between people of the ESI-Fi and ESI-Se sub-types.

I usually summarize the difference by calling them the "sports model" (the ESI-Se) and the "nesting model" (the ESI-Fi).

The way that the difference manifests to me is that the ESI-Se feels closer to my impression of the SEE-Fi, and the ESI-Fi feels closer to my impression of the EII-Fi. Basically, the ESI-Se feels more like Activity, while the ESI-Fi feels more like a comfortable Semi-Dual.

Now, Stratiyevskaya has written that it is much easier to get close to your Semi-Dual than to your Dual and she's absolutely right, and I don't hang out with many SEEs because we compete for the stage, so you'd think that that would make the ESI-Fi easier to start a relationship with, but I have found the opposite to be the case.

I can quickly form a bond with an ESI-Se (when I meet them in person, that is.) That's the influence of Activity relations, and ESI-Se's love to physically challenge themselves to do more stuff, and I'm out there doing stuff in the real world, so they get that and they like it. However, ESI-Se's are constantly looking for that next challenge, which means that they are constantly leaving the things they were just doing, in favor of the next adventure.

It takes me a long time to form a bond with an ESI-Fi, so it's a good thing that I'm very patient. The default position of the ESI-Fi is to sit way back and observe for a long time and send out small probes and do small tests to see how people react, without actually showing their hand.
They are always stunned when I tell them, early in the relationship, that they "divide the world into two groups; the good and the bad, and once they place someone into a category, that person never gets out. And they will never tell a person which category they are in."

Lol. Thank you, Socionics. ESI-Fi's do not outwardly react to that news, but they recognize themselves immediately and then they wonder who this guy is that can see into them? It's a cheap way for me to short-circuit the otherwise lengthy process of getting their attention, but it's not evil for me to do that.

ESI-Se's are more like cats, and ESI-Fi's are more like dogs, and I prefer dogs. I need that steady Fi faithfulness more than I need the glamorous excitement of Se.