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Thread: interpretation of quadra transitions

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    Default interpretation of quadra transitions

    Quadra Transitions (Starting from Delta to Alpha and then back to Delta from Alpha)
    The way the following is supposed to work is that as society starts to lose its ability to function it goes from Delta to Gamma to Beta to Alpha in order to function again. If society is in Gamma or Beta and thus functional by such and it solves all or most of the problems that resulted in its inception, then society will move backward (Beta to Gamma or Gamma to Delta). If society is in Alpha and thus functional by such and it solves all or most of the problems that resulted in its inception, then society will move to Delta and not Beta.

    Delta

    Ideal society would be at Delta. When Si, Ne, Fi, and Te are the successful hyper-focus of society we have a self-regulating minimalist-government socialistic utopia. Unfortunately I can't really think of any society that has achieved any kind of Delta state other than maybe Switzerland.

    Delta → Everyone has a symbiotic relationship that allows them to have a productive, exploratory, enjoyable, and freedom filled experience with society. A sense of purpose is innate.

    Now take that Delta society and create some chaos, just a little, say something like a natural disaster or something related to the housing bust. The first instinct of the current state of society is to try to preserve its state. Delta will think up new ideas in how to deal with the problems.

    But let's say more chaos keeps happening. Some people most hurt by the chaos are now loosing their sense of symbiotic relationships. So now the people start to question whether or not Delta society can deal with their problems and start losing a sense of purpose of unity. In an effort to combat this and keep society unified, society starts to become more Ni/Se over Si/Ne. People start looking at trends and ways to predict what will happen and prevent as much future chaos from taking place by being vigilant, active, and aware of what is going on as much as they can be, giving them back a sense of control and purpose of unity in their lives while not having to dissolve their relationships.



    Gamma

    Less ideal society would be at Gamma. In this state society values most the ability to successfully act decisively to overcome allowing the problems and mistakes of the past to emerge. I can't think of better examples for Gamma than Feudalistic Japan or European Feudalism or the Holy Roman Empire.

    Gamma → Society now no longer has a balanced symbiotic relationship with its people. Because of the nature of prediction, those that are more successful in predicting and dealing with future problems will have more economic power and freedom over society. They will also be the one's forming the majority of the better symbiotic relationships, while the rest of society will accept getting the 'short end of the stick' because they are still theoretically better off than if still in the poorly functional Delta society. Society is still unified as a whole, but the people on the low end of the totem pole are only a little better off since they have the worst relationships to society with very little freedom and very little control over their lives.

    Now take that Gamma society and stir in some shit, a little chaos here, and a little chaos there. The people that have gotten the 'short end of the stick' now find that those in power are unable to protect and care for them. So the relationships of society now divide up into smaller groups that make alliances or oppose one another in the hopes that they can claim enough control and power to give them back a sense of protection and care.


    Beta

    An even lesser ideal society would be at Beta. In this state society is scattered and warmongering. The symbiotic relationships that were center to Delta and influential to allowing Gamma society to create a system of power and control are completely gone or nearly so. The American Revolution was a good example of a Beta society (13 colonies) that made an alliance in order to overcome the British aggressions.

    Beta → The relationships of the people are destroyed. People form new groups in order to form new beneficial relationships. To do this they must also fight off the opposing groups that wish to submit them to their own ideas of what the relationships of society should encompass and be. At best this gives people back a sense of unity and purpose with themselves and their fellow human beings, giving their life struggles a sense of passion, meaning, and worth. At worst, it nurtures an overly-aggressive society that harms itself by recreating the same problems its manifestation was supposed to solve. If the latter happens, then Beta society will slowly, in a narcissistic manner, over-encumber itself with aggression to outside forces until the spirit of the people that upheld this society will no longer be able to see any good coming from their state. Some examples of this would be ******'s downfall in World War II and the current state of American society. As this happens, people become disillusioned and tired and transition to Alpha.


    Alpha

    The ideal problem solving state of society would be at Alpha. Alpha unfortunately becomes the state of society when all else has failed and people need to come up with new ideas on how to structure the relationships and focus of society in a consistent and thought-out manner. When Ne, Si, Ti, and Fe are an extreme focus of society, shit must be really bad. Normally when society is in a Delta, Gamma, or Beta state Alpha is thought to be a constant nuisance or threat that wants to undermine society or stands to shake the foundations what is established and works. For society to now support Alpha thinking must mean people are very desperate.

    Alpha → Here in Alpha there are no unifying relationships to society, just like in beta. But the focus of vigilance and aggression is now deemed useless and society seeks ways to form smaller groups that seek peace between each other and allow and foster the growth of trial and error in new ideas and approaches to organizing and operating society. All devalued functions are seen with minimalist intentions, always making sure never to overdo them when they are deemed temporarily necessary. Ancient Greece would have been a decent example of a more overall Alpha society. And in Greek history it is shown that the Greek Alpha society takes the most creative form of democracy to its highest potential compared to the other quadric societies.

    If however Alpha society is able to find ways to eliminate all of the problems that the other societies encountered, then everything will transition back to Delta in the hopes that people can stay in their idyllic Delta society and not repeat the cycle.

    If these problems are never completely solved, then Alpha society will remain in its state until extinction or complete destruction by an outside influence or society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexxus View Post
    When Ne, Si, Ti, and Fe are an extreme focus of society, shit must be really bad. Normally when society is in a Delta, Gamma, or Beta state Alpha is thought to be a constant nuisance or threat that wants to undermine society or stands to shake the foundations what is established and works. For society to now support Alpha thinking must mean people are very desperate.
    Yep. Everyone really fears those SEIs...

    The quadra progression is supposed to be more of a cycle than a hierarchy. Sure, Delta phase is probably the most idyllic and will be liked the most be Deltas (25% of people), Alphas and Gammas (50% of people) will find it mediocre and Betas (25% of people) will hate it. Same for each other type of society.

    Also, just curious, what's so horrible about an extreme focus on as compared to an extreme focus on ?

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    This description is horribly biased.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    This description is horribly biased.
    I wasn't going to be this blunt, but... yeah. Bias overwhelming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    This description is horribly biased.
    This is not a description. This is a synthesis from history of quadra progressions. The descriptions are meant to give you an idea of the concept. I will not answer you again if your ignorance is so great you can not even be bothered to give me an explanation why. Your recent Beta attitude on this forum is abhorrent. I've shown you no such disrespect in discussion to warrant such an attitude. There is no reason to be hostile. If you can't respect that, know you aren't welcome in this discussion.

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    you're interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    you're interesting.
    thank you, I have to admit I hear that often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexxus View Post
    This is not a description. This is a synthesis from history of quadra progressions. The descriptions are meant to give you an idea of the concept. I will not answer you again if your ignorance is so great you can not even be bothered to give me an explanation why. Your recent Beta attitude on this forum is abhorrent. I've shown you no such disrespect in discussion to warrant such an attitude. There is no reason to be hostile. If you can't respect that, know you aren't welcome in this discussion.
    I remember the days when Pirate was a mad beta hater, said everything beta contributed to society is bad, blah blah blah.

    Now he's one of us.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igxfl View Post
    what's so horrible about an extreme focus on
    The kids are alright..



    Also, Alpha wasn't ancient Greece. More like Athens specifically. Only realized as such after Socrates died (for a time).

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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    Also, Alpha wasn't ancient Greece. More like Athens specifically. Only realized as such after Socrates died (for a time).
    Well Socrates didn't know nothing so alpha it is.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    The kids are alright..



    Also, Alpha wasn't ancient Greece. More like Athens specifically. Only realized as such after Socrates died (for a time).
    I would be fascinated to see their history with Sparta from a socionic view. Didn't they have issues?
    Johari/Nohari

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    Yep. Wars, etc.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peloponnesian_War

    I would probably call Sparta a Beta state and Athens an Alpha one.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igxfl View Post
    Thanks.

    I would probably call Sparta a Beta state and Athens an Alpha one.
    Same.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igxfl View Post
    I would probably call Sparta a Beta state and Athens an Alpha one.
    That's correct. Dorians were actually a warlike Roman tribe. Calling folk who ravaged and destroyed almost all of Greek culture Greek is funny

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    lol, hexxus what type are you?

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    I's guess Delta, based on the glorification of Delta society. Although, oddly enough, he seems to bash Alphas as much as or more than Betas, so Gamma could also be possible.

    Or more likely, this description is based on a very skewed understanding of the quadras, tells us nothing, and he could be any type at all.

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    I didn't know Switzerland is an Utopia. Things one learns on here, oh boy. And yea, Holy Roman empire reeks of beta to me - Ti to maximum.

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    Delta: Socialist economy. ENFps have the country enslaved to welfare programs and ESTjs regulate the society into a police state. Resources are allocated by the government & not by prices, the economy becomes unadaptable; scarcities abound in some areas while others bask in the wastage of gross excess. Payment is now provided by the government; there's a diminished incentive to meet consumer needs, so the quality of service also diminishes. Research and development halts. Price caps create increased demand which makes services scarce. Productive output diminishes since workers and companies lack competitive incentive. Ultimately everyone ends up poor and unable to get the services they need; and those services are totally subquality.
    Eventually the Betas rise up and overthrow the Delta government, put their heads on sticks and reclaim their rightful position in society - as its leaders.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    Delta: Socialist economy. ENFps have the country enslaved to welfare programs and ESTjs regulate the society into a police state. Resources are allocated by the government & not by prices, the economy becomes unadaptable; scarcities abound in some areas while others bask in the wastage of gross excess. Payment is now provided by the government; there's a diminished incentive to meet consumer needs, so the quality of service also diminishes. Research and development halts. Price caps create increased demand which makes services scarce. Productive output diminishes since workers and companies lack competitive incentive. Ultimately everyone ends up poor and unable to get the services they need; and those services are totally subquality.
    Eventually the Betas rise up and overthrow the Delta government, put their heads on sticks and reclaim their rightful position in society - as its leaders.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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