I'm Curious

[EyeSeeCold]

inb4 Bi curious

I don't want to know why I'm LII, I want to know: Why am I not ILI?


I can debunk any information you can bring up.

[Absurd]

Doesn't this taciturn stuff apply to you ?

[Capitalist Pig]

Because you are an ILI in motion.

[EyeSeeCold]

Doesn't this taciturn stuff apply to you ?

Askers

1. tendency to dialogue
2. much of what an askers says seems more question-like, even statements
3. always, as the other person talks, affirm the receipt of information with yeah, mhm, etc.
4. call talk to an audience as a whole very well
5. starts talking at times expecting someone to get interested and start paying attention
6. has a tendency to interrupt and feels comfortable pausing half way on the speech and with "questions allowed all the time" way, returning to what was said later if necessary
7. quite often asks a non-rhetorical question and answers it himself
8. often just asks questions to fill in time, without serious need to actually find the information asked

Declarers

1. tendency to monologue
2. much of what a declarer says seems more statement-like, even questions
3. listens attentively and silently to others' speeches to return to a long speech
4. finds it easier to talk to one person at a time
5. before starting to talk, first ascertains that attention is grabbed
6. is very patient in terms of others speeches in terms of letting finish
7. prefers to finish the speech before letting others talk, likes closure and that their point was conveyed
8. questions are often either rhetorical or only strictly motivated by serious need for certain information

If you go through my posts, when I ask questions, I don't ask to keep a conversation going. I want a specific answer from someone when I do that. In conservations, I take in what people present, but I prefer to respond as a whole without bringing up small points and trying to find consensus on little things. Check my VMs.

[Absurd]

If you go through my posts, when I ask questions, I don't ask to keep a conversation going. I want a specific answer from someone when I do that. In conservations, I take in what people present, but I prefer to respond as a whole without bringing up small points and trying to find consensus on little things. Check my VMs.

Thats sounds like something Maritsa said earlier. I mean the format she presents why she is or isn't such and such type. What do you type Maritsa as ? ILI ?

Thanks for the info, though.

[EyeSeeCold]

Thats sounds like something Maritsa said earlier. I mean the format she presents why she is or isn't such and such type. What do you type Maritsa as ? ILI ?

Thanks for the info, though.

Except I'm aware of what I'm doing. How else can I convince one of my type without presenting information and showing how I fit into it?

Is there a performance test I can do?

I don't have a type for Maritsa, her persona was too ridiculous.

[mirrorsoul]

inb4 Bi curious

I don't want to know why I'm LII, I want to know: Why am I not ILI?


I can debunk any information you can bring up.

It doesn't work that way, ESC. You can't prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

Basically, you have to prove why you're ILI, they don't have to prove why you're not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

[ashlesha]

i'm not sticking to the framework, sorry. bc whats obvious to me is that you regularly condense concepts down into the smallest common denominator, like a bunch of information in a tiny package that i find difficult to try to understand because i'd have to read your mind to open it. and from my perspective this is classic Ti. i see it in other LIIs on the forum all the time. Ti demonstrative is one thing, but the demonstrative is not going to be the most obvious and common thing that a person shows in communication.

i'll try to keep my comments in this thread from now on, btw, sorry for poking you about this elsewhere.

[Absurd]

Except I'm aware of what I'm doing. How else can I convince one of my type without presenting information and showing how I fit into it?

I don't know ? Send me your photo(s) ? I'm terribly skilled in V.I.

Is there a performance test I can do?

http://www.socionics.us/tests/1/0.htm

Is good ?

I don't have a type for Maritsa, her persona was too ridiculous.

But it didn't stop you from agreeing with her, must be type related...

[EyeSeeCold]

It doesn't work that way, ESC. You can't prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

Basically, you have to prove why you're ILI, they don't have to prove why you're not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

I don't want proof, I want to know why you guys don't think I can be ILI. I'm curious.

i'm not sticking to the framework, sorry. bc whats obvious to me is that you regularly condense concepts down into the smallest common denominator, like a bunch of information in a tiny package that i find difficult to try to understand because i'd have to read your mind to open it. and from my perspective this is classic Ti. i see it in other LIIs on the forum all the time. Ti demonstrative is one thing, but the demonstrative is not going to be the most obvious and common thing that a person shows in communication.

i'll try to keep my comments in this thread from now on, btw, sorry for poking you about this elsewhere.

But you don't realize that most everything I speak of on this forum is theoretical. We haven't had the opportunity to discuss things I don't experiment with i.e. things I know.

I don't explain every single because when I'm on a roll I don't like to wait for people to catch up, blame this on being a regular on an INTP forum.

Besides:

Demonstrative

xLI - Personal philosophy - > Getting people on your level to do business

It's a pain for me to really explain myself.

I don't know ? Send me your photo(s) ? I'm terribly skilled in V.I.

Not down with familiarity.

http://www.socionics.us/tests/1/0.htm

Not a performance test, I mean like is there a task that I can perform.

But it didn't stop you from agreeing with her, must be type related...

I just went along to avoid problems, path of least resistance. Though a few things I liked what she said.

[Absurd]

Not down with familiarity.

Please...

Not a performance test, I mean like is there a task that I can perform.

Haha, drop dead ?

I just went along to avoid problems, path of least resistance. Though a few things I liked what she said.

Why are you running away from problems and what were the things you liked about her ? In a nutshell, of course.

[EyeSeeCold]

Please...

Haha, drop dead ?

It's inevitable, no need to rush.

Why are you running away from problems and what were the things you liked about her ? In a nutshell, of course.

lol I don't run from problems, they were averted.

She was harmless and naive(or that good at trolling).

[Jinxi]

Show us your face.

[Exodus]

I don't explain every single because when I'm on a roll I don't like to wait for people to catch up, blame this on being a regular on an INTP forum.

Did you came straight from MBTI and figure your type was the same in socionics? Something to consider. I tested as INTJ in MBTI but it seems I just got lucky.

Your uber-theoretical bent definitely speaks of leading, not . Although I don't agree with many of your ideas, I find you to be a reasonable and open-minded person and I feel like I understand your thought process (more so than if you were ILI). I think we're similar in other ways too, sense of humor for instance. Whereas with ILIs there is more of a gap in perspective.

I just went along to avoid problems, path of least resistance. Though a few things I liked what she said.

Si?

I don't want proof, I want to know why you guys don't think I can be ILI. I'm curious.

Ne?

[krieger]

you seem unproblematically ILI to me.

if there's one faulty tendency i see among practitioners of socionics it is that of assuming people within one type category form more homogeneous groups than they do in reality.

[EyeSeeCold]

Did you came straight from MBTI and figure your type was the same in socionics? Something to consider. I tested as INTJ in MBTI but it seems I just got lucky.

I went through that process 8 months ago. I've been here since October, been into Socionics since last Summer.

My initial thought was that INTP carried over and I started to put faith into Socionics theory. Then something, I don't remember what, caused me to believe INTP was closer to LII, then I reverted my Socionics beliefs to reflect that(and made huge mistakes I hope no one ever uncovers). However, as the energy from the many intertype relations I had kicked in(and a realization of other things), I knew definitely that LII was out of the question, and that ILI was the only choice. I mentioned a bit of this in my first thread.

Your uber-theoretical bent definitely speaks of leading, not .

That may be so, but I think the difference(if any) between Acc/Cre [+Ti/-Te; -Ti/+Te] should be taken into consideration.

Although I don't agree with many of your ideas, I find you to be a reasonable and open-minded person and I feel like I understand your thought process (more so than if you were ILI). I think we're similar in other ways too, sense of humor for instance. Whereas with ILIs there is more of a gap in perspective.

Perhaps you're not LII?

Si?

The path of least resistance is definitely Gamma/Delta Seriousness(+, -).

Ne?

I don't understand people's perspective. Curiosity has been tied to . I see it as wanting to know the truth or "Why".

[Trevor]

Some people think you're TiNe because you're interested in mental masturbation. Exact same thing happened to Aiss. Both wrong.

[mirrorsoul]

I don't want proof, I want to know why you guys don't think I can be ILI. I'm curious.

Technically speaking, that's still an erroneous perspective. No one thinks that you CAN'T be an ILI. For all we know, you could be an ESE and your online persona is a total fake.

People just happen to think that another type is a better fit, while not saying that ILI isn't a possible fit.

Just because someone believes that another type fits you better, it does not follow that they believe you can't be ILI.

So you're asking for data supporting an illogical conclusion which you will always be able to refute.

[EyeSeeCold]

Technically speaking, that's still an erroneous perspective. No one thinks that you CAN'T be an ILI.

So you're asking for data supporting an illogical conclusion which you will always be able to refute.

Some people have claimed with apparent certainty that I'm LII. If I'm LII then I cannot be that which is ILI. So I want to know: what rids people of doubt of ILI?

Regardless of me refuting claims, I want perspective. I want to know why. So I can see it from their eyes.

[Timeless]

FWIW, I think you're ILI/INTp, you sweat and fart , but I'm still curious to see what you look like (obviously for VI purposes).

You may say, "Why?" to which you know what I will say: "Why not?" It's not going to kill you, it's not going to hurt anybody, you're not going to lose anything. The only other reason I can see why you wouldn't want to put it is probably some sort of inhibition or fear, whatever it is, it's all good. You don't have to anyway.

Just a thought.

[Jinxi]

FWIW, I think you're ILI/INTp, you sweat and fart , but I'm still curious to see what you look like (obviously for VI purposes).

You may say, "Why?" to which you know what I will say: "Why not?" It's not going to kill you, it's not going to hurt anybody, you're not going to lose anything. The only other reason I can see why you wouldn't want to put it is probably some sort of inhibition or fear, whatever it is, it's all good. You don't have to anyway.

Just a thought.

He's underage, and probably looks like one of those baby-faced 16 year-olds. That's why.

[EyeSeeCold]

FWIW, I think you're ILI/INTp, you sweat and fart , but I'm still curious to see what you look like (obviously for VI purposes).

You may say, "Why?" to which you know what I will say: "Why not?" It's not going to kill you, it's not going to hurt anybody, you're not going to lose anything. The only other reason I can see why you wouldn't want to put it is probably some sort of inhibition or fear, whatever it is, it's all good. You don't have to anyway.

Just a thought.

I'm not down with familiarity. Blame it on PoLR , call it an irrational fear, or w/e, I'm just not comfortable with it.

He's underage, and probably looks like one of those baby-faced 16 year-olds. That's why.

lol, I'm 19, but nah.

You can imagine me with a baby face all you want though. If that's what gets you off.

[Timeless]

I'm not down with familiarity. Blame it on PoLR , call it an irrational fear, or w/e, I'm just not comfortable with it.

No problem.

[Jinxi]

Why do you identify as Ti-Ne on the INTP forum?

[Korpsy Knievel]

Your characteristic arguments are essentially reductionist sets of non sequiturs bisected by equals signs. Their emphasis on form often comes at the expense of clear content. In their deductive, mathematical construction and hoped-for equilibrium they're rather similar to Krig's recent verbal mandala of quadra IEs. Both could be easily read as Ne-Ti, and for his own part I doubt Krig would disagree that he is an LII.

You've complained of being derided for your self-admittedly Ti-heavy ideas and their presentation, excusing their ineptitude by claiming they were born of demonstrative Ti. However, tcaud catches his own share of flack for his Ne-Ti contributions, and though he generally explains himself in prose rather than formulation, I don't recall anyone recasting him as anything but LII. The degree to which your thinking converges with his is unknown but you've openly lent him moral support, agreed with him, and even cited him numerous times when other self-styled Te-egos have rejected what he's said out of hand. Also like him, your musings are often catalyzed by fantasy games, though your fantasy-of-choice has a martial flavor rather than anime.

Then there's the business of your agreements with maritsa, which is curious since her analytical skills are just crap. Perhaps it's her damsel-in-distress act that appeals to you and you're just humoring a floundering airhead, or she might actually be an ESE as has been suggested, and her antics kindle a natural fire in your LII loins. In any event, I don't see other self-typed ILIs or LIEs concurring with her typings or their rationales, such that they are, as frequently as you do. Nor do the same individuals appear to accept your self-typing as ILI. I bring this up because the traits that one gravitates toward in others can reveal much about one's own qualities, as does one's reception and compatibility with others. That's something we all knew well before socionics landed in our laps.

Beyond all that you just don't give off the same vibe I've come to expect from the diverse range of other ILIs that I know, online or in person. None of this precludes your self-typing being correct but from what you've shown it strikes me as improbable, and I think you're an LII.

[EyeSeeCold]

Why do you identify as Ti-Ne on the INTP forum?

I've long since been out of that MBTI mindset. MBTI - > Socionics requires a perspective shift, so it wouldn't do my typing any justice to bring that up.

Your characteristic arguments are essentially reductionist sets of non sequiturs bisected by equals signs. Their emphasis on form often comes at the expense of clear content. In their deductive, mathematical construction and hoped-for equilibrium they're rather similar to Krig's recent verbal mandala of quadra IEs. Both could be easily read as Ne-Ti, and for his own part I doubt Krig would disagree that he is an LII.

Does not ILI posses both and with which to produce and argue?

I have said elsewhere that given I am working with theory, I am out of my element, so to speak, as I have to constantly justify what I state, as I am very opinionated. I am kept on my toes being on a forum such as this with many valuers who need that kind of reasoning in order to accept my positions. As such I haven't been given a chance, since first joining, to settle in my natural state.

You've complained of being derided for your self-admittedly Ti-heavy ideas and their presentation, excusing their ineptitude by claiming they were born of demonstrative Ti. However, tcaud catches his own share of flack for his Ne-Ti contributions, and though he generally explains himself in prose rather than formulation, I don't recall anyone recasting him as anything but LII. The degree to which your thinking converges with his is unknown but you've openly lent him moral support, agreed with him, and even cited him numerous times when other self-styled Te-egos have rejected what he's said out of hand.

Just because a person is a different type doesn't mean they can't give moral support or agree or even cite them(which I've only done three times). Not to mention you're ignoring our conflict back when we were trying to find consensus when we were redefining elements.

Also like him, your musings are often catalyzed by fantasy games, though your fantasy-of-choice has a martial flavor rather than anime.

Evidence for fantasy?

Two things I can recall: The Matrix and my "Fighting Styles" thread. This is highly insufficient evidence for a typing.

I'm not into animated fantasy nor anime, I'm barely into current television programming or movies, so again, this is insufficient data.

Then there's the business of your agreements with maritsa, which is curious since her analytical skills are just crap. Perhaps it's her damsel-in-distress act that appeals to you and you're just humoring a floundering airhead, or she might actually be an ESE as has been suggested, and her antics kindle a natural fire in your LII loins. In any event, I don't see other self-typed ILIs or LIEs concurring with her typings or their rationales, such that they are, as frequently as you do.

Your understanding of the situation is inadequate. I was never "on Maristsa side", nor did I see her as a reliable source of information. I have said already that I entertained her because it was harmless fun just going along with her naivety, all the while engaging in other discussions on this board. I have truly agreed with maybe a few things she said, although what she agreed with me on is an entirely different subject.

What you fail to realize is that I am fairly new and Maritsa hadn't had the time to annoy me to the point of most members here. I just didn't give a damn if she was her or not, she didn't really bother me.

Nor do the same individuals appear to accept your self-typing as ILI. I bring this up because the traits that one gravitates toward in others can reveal much about one's own qualities, as does one's reception and compatibility with others. That's something we all knew well before socionics landed in our laps.

True, although you ignore situational factors. I have been in a different energy state than I have been the first few months, so I am more accepting of other people, at the same time, more active.

Beyond all that you just don't give off the same vibe I've come to expect from the diverse range of other ILIs that I know, online or in person. None of this precludes your self-typing being correct but from what you've shown it strikes me as improbable, and I think you're an LII.

Assuming you know ILIs, regardless, it's not about opinion, but relational fact.

I doubt your own ILI typing.

[krieger]

you used the word "fun". your Alpha typing is sealed. you will never be able to convince these people again.

[EyeSeeCold]

you used the word "fun". your Alpha typing is sealed. you will never be able to convince these people again.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread is for other people to give their perspective on why they don't see ILI.

[ashlesha]

Some people think you're TiNe because you're interested in mental masturbation. Exact same thing happened to Aiss. Both wrong.

i think aiss is ILI. they are different.

I doubt your own ILI typing.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread is for other people to give their perspective on why they don't see ILI.

thanks. ftr i reserve the right to change my mind, though it seems unlikely to me at this time that i will.

[EyeSeeCold]

Let's try this:
Assuming I'm ILI, what's my subtype?


I was thinking ILI-C.

[Capitalist Pig]

Let's try this:
Assuming I'm ILI, what's my subtype?


I was thinking ILI-C.

And if you aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

[JRiddy]

I know nothing about you, but assuming you're ILI, you're not ILI. Assuming that is like assuming that a homeless black man won't rape your mother: it's just silly.

In seriousness, though, the "Assuming X, what about Y" as a post is pretty uncharacteristic of how ILIs operate in most conditions. You're probably alpha NT like me. Get over it. It's awesome being alpha NT. Chicks think it's hot when we act silly.

I love you

[EyeSeeCold]

And if you aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

I know nothing about you, but assuming you're ILI, you're not ILI. Assuming that is like assuming that a homeless black man won't rape your mother: it's just silly.

In seriousness, though, the "Assuming X, what about Y" as a post is pretty uncharacteristic of how ILIs operate in most conditions. You're probably alpha NT like me. Get over it. It's awesome being alpha NT. Chicks think it's hot when we act silly.

I love you

[Galen]

well i'm convinced

[Capitalist Pig]

Whatever. Have fun in your wacky, subjective, magical world of pretend and make believe. "Hey, this should prove I'm a type, let's entertain outlandish hypothetical alternate reality-dimensions where up is down and Mexico is Canada and Charlie Chaplin was really ****** after all! Who cares if none of my hypotheticals have any bearing on reality, even potential reality, we're just assuming for the sake of satiating my own retarded sense of self-identity within the boundaries of a -infested personality theory!"

QED, bitch.

[EyeSeeCold]

Whatever. Have fun in your wacky, subjective, magical world of pretend and make believe. "Hey, this should prove I'm a type, let's entertain outlandish hypothetical alternate reality-dimensions where up is down and Mexico is Canada and Charlie Chaplin was really ****** after all! Who cares if none of my hypotheticals have any bearing on reality, even potential reality, we're just assuming for the sake of satiating my own retarded sense of self-identity within the boundaries of a -infested personality theory!"

Q.E.D., bitch.

Fix'd - your punctuation.

[EyeSeeCold]

The funny thing is that before Gilly made that thread, no one had trouble with ILI.

[Simon Ssmall]

You seem to be afraid of not being the type you are thinking you are . Anyway do you really believe what you write about your energy, Hordes of Ti valuers here etc.? And do you think that asking why you are not ILI is a normal approach for a debate? You know, prove me why I am not a green anteater and I will refute your statements..



And this is really nothing like Aiss case, she IS ILI and I have little doubts about that. They are nowhere near similar.

[Simon Ssmall]

The funny thing is that before Gilly made that thread, no one had trouble with ILI.

I didn't even know we HAD a thread. Also if we would go back 4 months or so, when you posted way less, I had little problem with your type of ILI as there was little to point to either side.

[EyeSeeCold]

I didn't even know we HAD a thread. Also if we would go back 4 months or so, when you posted way less, I had little problem with your type of ILI as there was little to point to either side.

Right, so what does that tell you about now? Couldn't this be situational? I wasn't that active until Gilly forced me into the limelight, now I'm everywhere cause everyone's seen my name now.

It was better being a small fish.

You seem to be afraid of not being the type you are thinking you are . Anyway do you really believe what you write about your energy, Hordes of Ti valuers here etc.? And do you think that asking why you are not ILI is a normal approach for a debate?

I wasn't looking for a debate, I don't want to destroy anyone.

You know, prove me why I am not a green anteater and I will refute your statements..

http://fuck-you-im-an-anteater.com/i...n-anteater.jpg

And this is really nothing like Aiss case, she IS ILI and I have little doubts about that. They are nowhere near similar.

Yes, because Aiss and the other few ILIs here that may not even be ILIs are a source of exhaustive examples of of the full extent of the ILI; And you guys imposing typings have full understanding of my psychology, behavior, personality, and tendencies to the extent that you can really make a definitive decision of a psychological type. -__-

Screw this