Final Fantasy XIII

[silverchris9]

Has anyone played this game? Do you have any opinions as to the characters' types? I've played through the first disc and I have the following conjectures:

Vanille: IEE
Lightning: SLE OR LIE (leaning SLE)
Hope: IXI (leaning IEI)
Sazh: Alpha extrovert (or small chance SEI-Fe)
Snow: Not sure. SLE is a possibility (he is jocular subtype, Lightning is moody and secretive subtype). EIE is also possible. I was trying to come up with an argument for LSE-EII duality with him and Serah (why the hell did they give her a normal name but a weird ass spelling? We get it, it's a fantasy game. Do you really have to come up with stupid spellings of a normal American name to prove it to us? And don't tell me it's for an allusion to like Seraphim or something, because I mean come on). But I can't really find evidence that he is delta. SEE would also make sense. In fact, I think SEE makes the most sense of all.

[stray]

I thought Lightning was SLI
and Fang LSE

I'm still a socionics newb though. I don't know any secretive/moody SLEs like that personally. I've seen Cloud typed the same. Between Madonna, Cloud, Gwen Stefani, and Brando, it seems like SLEs encompass quite a lot.

Sazh ESE
Snow SEE
Vanille IEE
Hope.. not sure.

[crazedrat]

The main character is like dolphin made into a superhero.

This is like when dolphin goes into hostile poetry mode.

[silverchris9]

Okay. Further play time has confirmed my suspicions:

Snow-SEE
Lightning: SLE (or I guess she could be LSI-Se, but I see more Fi-polr than Ne-polr)
Hope: IEI
Sazh: ESE > ILE
Vanille: IEE
Serah: generic do-gooder. So probably EII. Definitely not ILI.


Lightning is a terrific portrait of an SLE. The scenes in Palumpolum give pretty clear-cut demonstrations of how Ni-DS and Fi-polr work in SLEs. Also how Se can get out of hand.

1) We see devalued Fi when Lightning and Hope are discussing whether or not it's a good idea to attack the fal'Cie (a giant machine) that handles the food supply for Palumpolum (a town). It's obvious that the reason they aren't going to attack it is a purely ethical one: they don't want to hurt the citizens of Palumpolum. It's not even a Ti thing, because the citizens are formally defined as their enemies, so Ti says attack the enemies, cut off the food supply.

But since Fi is devalued in their beta duality group, they can't just come out and say the real reason. So they come up with a bs justification, like "it will just make the citizens angrier and make it harder for us to accomplish our goal." In other words, they're faking Ti/Ni in order to show that the action they want to take on subdued ethical grounds (Fi) fits with the valued Se goal.

2) When Hope (IEI) begins to interpret the humans relationship to the fal'Cie, it brings Lightning to a sudden Ni-style revelation about her life and her own motives, etc. Hope presents a narrative, taking facts about experience and making a general story out of it: "look, the fal'cie is taking care of food for this city, that relates to how in general, humans relate to fal'cie as pets relate to humans." This triggers a moment of revelation for Lightning which alters the course of the game--but Lightning would never have come to that revelation without a piece of Ni-style metaphorizing/narrative-building.

There's also a good example of Ni-DS in Lightning's name. Weak but highly valued Ni. Trying to invest meaning into a symbol or a word.

This is also a good example of how duality works. Hope has no intention of creating a magical revelatory moment for Lightning, he's just talking. Similarly, Lightning has no overarching intention (not at first) of toughening Hope up and teaching him how to fight---he's just around and capable of fighting, so obviously she's going to direct him to do so in the best way. But nevertheless, they serve a vital function for one another.

3) When Lightning talks about burying herself in action, it is a good example of Se without Ni. She is in a state of semiotic uncertainty: she can no longer serve the master she wanted to serve, her sense of self is broken, she doesn't know what anything means. Because she is not dualized/not equipped to deal with semiotic uncertainty, she relies on what she knows: action. Goals. Setting a goal. Getting to that goal. Getting rid of obstacles in the way.

This allows her to avoid dealing with the semiotic uncertainty by resting on something perfectly certain, which is moving towards a goal. This is a good example of how one could over-rely on Se in the absence of Ni. In the absence of an overarching purpose to direct action, you pick an arbitrary goal, and just act, because action takes up all your mental resources, so you have nothing left for painful and unpleasant thoughts (contrast to Ni, which tries to find ways to use up all the mental resources on painful and unpleasant thoughts, so there's nothing left for action, i.e., Hamlet---except Hamlet overgoes socionics, but ya know).

"Fighting without hope is no way to live. It's just a way to die." That is, acting, in terms of Se, without a framework or purpose within which to act (Ni), is ultimately meaningless.


In conclusion, FFXIII is drenched in Ni/Se. But it is still a very odd and surprisingly mediocre videogame. It's like, the cutscenes are good, the battle system is the best they've had in years, but the game itself is kinda meh. I even like the characters! But it's TOO LINEAR, and there are like no towns. Sigh. If it weren't for the fact that they constructed a plot that is incapable of doing many of the things rpgs ought to/need to do, this would be an incredible game.

[stray]

I agree that it has some good elements, but yet, kind of mediocre. Hope the next one is an improvement and there's more towns/sidegames and stuff.

Any second opinion on me typing fang as LSE?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

lol dolphin is awesome cause she reminds me of so many of fantasy girl superheroes not just that one. She is soooo like a cute little final fantasy girl. <3 <3 <3

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't have a ps3 so I can't play this. =(

And I'm not sure I want to get it anyway. I heard mix reviews and I hear the game kinda sucks. Yeah I hear that it's very linear and it's just going like in tunnels. But honestly, I kinda like that. I like those dungeons in wow that are just one straight hallway.

Gunplay doesn't really interest me either (I'm not heterosexual enough) I like more of a classic medieval setting. But the final fantasies on the ds version are TOO babyish and gay. =( Their faces are all bland and shit.

I'm afraid the company sold out. I miss old school final fantasy shit but they can't keep remaking those same games for the trillonth time.

[stray]

It's not gunplay exactly. Pretty much the same kind of half-and-half sci-fi/fantasy setting you'd see in many FF games. In fact, Lightning's weapon pretty much sums it up: She wields a "Gunblade".

The linearity doesn't kill it though, I'll say that much. It's just a step down from having the exploratory elements you'd see in previous games. I think they were trying to attract new players more by making it more Action/Adventure like, but they need to stick with it being more of an RPG. The same thing can be said for that new Dragon Age game.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It's not gunplay exactly. Pretty much the same kind of half-and-half sci-fi/fantasy setting you'd see in many FF games. In fact, Lightning's weapon pretty much sums it up: She wields a "Gunblade".

The linearity doesn't kill it though, I'll say that much. It's just a step down from having the exploratory elements you'd see in previous games. I think they were trying to attract new players more by making it more Action/Adventure like, but they need to stick with it being more of an RPG. The same thing can be said for that new Dragon Age game.

Yeah, I agree. RPGs should just be RPGs. Don't re-invent the wheel. Like I don't get how people whine about random encounters. There's nothing really wrong with them to me. Gameplay is great, but RPGs above all else need to have a good story and interesting, relateable characters. I mean that's why I like playing, I love to be in a world and go on an adventure with people that remind me of people that I enjoy in the 'real world.'

You can't go wrong with basic tank/healing/dps gameplay, and keeping it fair, and just focus more on good graphics, story and characterization and having interesting things happen. =D

I also don't like how lately they can make it where you can make any character be whatever you want. Although this is 'freeing' in a way, it actually feels more creative to have characters be set classes. Because, then their unique personality and identity is formed on whether they are a black mage or white mage or whatever. If you can just be anything, then it's like there's no point or meaning. =/

[stray]

I also don't like how lately they can make it where you can make any character be whatever you want. Although this is 'freeing' in a way, it actually feels more creative to have characters be set classes. Because, then their unique personality and identity is formed on whether they are a black mage or white mage or whatever. If you can just be anything, then it's like there's no point or meaning. =/

I'm a little torn on that. I like playing as premade characters, but freedom is cool too.. so long as it's not half-assed. I get a little OCD once I get that freedom.. where I start getting picky with little details of the game/story that don't line up with my character concept. Like they're not giving me enough tools for real freedom and creativity.

[Sir Knight]

Hell, silverchris, now I'm curious to see what you'd do with a halfway decent RPG like The Void or Planescape: Torment.

[Bardia]

Lightning - Definitely a thinker SLE/SLI are good typings but I don't remember enough to say for sure
Hope - Some emo introvert. IEI makes sense.
Sazh - Extroverted. Not sure.
Snow - SEE
Vanille - Annoying as heck. I can see IEE.
Fang - Extrovert, Thinker. LSE is a good guess but again I don't remember well enough.
Serah - Introvert. I can see EII.

The game was very meh overall. I just didn't get into the story and the game play was okay. Too many of the characters annoyed the crap out of me. I only really liked Lightning.

[silverchris9]

I agree that it has some good elements, but yet, kind of mediocre. Hope the next one is an improvement and there's more towns/sidegames and stuff.

Any second opinion on me typing fang as LSE?

Hmmm... I mean, she gets along with Vanille really well, and Vanille is a pretty obvious delta NF. I dunno. Her personality is sort of enigmatic to me. I can see the whole badass who feels (to me) oddly cold thing, which often points towards LSE (e.g., the guy in Sin City). But I dunno. Maybe my distance from Fang and disinterest in her points towards her being LSE? Or maybe it juts points towards her being a not-as-well-drawn character? I'm only on chapter 10, though, so that has something to do with it.

I don't have a ps3 so I can't play this. =(

And I'm not sure I want to get it anyway. I heard mix reviews and I hear the game kinda sucks. Yeah I hear that it's very linear and it's just going like in tunnels. But honestly, I kinda like that. I like those dungeons in wow that are just one straight hallway.

Gunplay doesn't really interest me either (I'm not heterosexual enough) I like more of a classic medieval setting. But the final fantasies on the ds version are TOO babyish and gay. =( Their faces are all bland and shit.

I'm afraid the company sold out. I miss old school final fantasy shit but they can't keep remaking those same games for the trillonth time.

As far as I'm concerned, they could remake Final Fantasy IX ten more times and I would play each one. Nine is the only one I've ever considered playing more than once. I love nine so so so so so much. The focus is on the characters, the ability gaining system is simple but addictive (I love the idea/process of growing characters and making them stronger and stronger. In fact, FFXIII is one of the first games that I've seen strike a balance between pre-battle team building and in-battle strategy. Both are really important, which I appreciate).

Hell, silverchris, now I'm curious to see what you'd do with a halfway decent RPG like The Void or Planescape: Torment.

lol. But I hate all western rpgs. Basically, I think Final Fantasy IX is the Form of the RPG, and so the quality of an rpg is based on how closely it approximates the experience I had play final fantasy 9 as a 10 year old. In other words, nostalgia.

Why are those games better?

[Pa3s]

Hell, silverchris, now I'm curious to see what you'd do with a halfway decent RPG like The Void or Planescape: Torment.

Hey, you should type the Diablo 2 characters.

Paladin - ISTj

[glam]

Hey, you should type the Diablo 2 characters.

Paladin - ISTj

haha, it's been a little while, but if i had to guess on some:

Paladin - ESI
Barbarian - SLE
Necromancer - ILI