How to find/recognize an SEI-ISFp?

[Polly_G]

I don't think ISFps travel in the same circles as me or something because I am not close with anyone who fits the description.

What are some things that might help me notice a possible ISFp and what are the kinds of things that attract them to an individual?

[tcaudilllg]

Act needy, or just be emotional. ISFPs tend to like expressing the emotional expressions they see in others in their art. The more emotional, the better.

[Linas]

Ha, really... I think that I'm doing something wrong when I see that other people are not emotional, just plain, normal
And I'm not sure if I am ISFp

[Expat]

ISFp traits:

- may seem "extroverted" in the sense of approaching people easily and being sociable but are "introverted" in the sense of being quiet for long periods

- they aren't always "friendly" or "emotional" in an ESFj or ENFp way, they may appear sullen for periods and look unfriendly at times

-bottom line: they are moody and prefer to immediately express their immediate emotions

- if they don't express their immediate emotions, these accumulate until they are let loose in sudden outbursts

- if they feel good in their environment, are often cracking silly jokes, singing, etc

As has already been said, they like people who respond to their emotional expressions positively, which is one reason why I don't get along with them -- my reaction is to think, "is this person insane?" and I'm sure they notice it.

[anndelise]

I don't think ISFps travel in the same circles as me or something because I am not close with anyone who fits the description.

What are some things that might help me notice a possible ISFp and what are the kinds of things that attract them to an individual?

Based on my own observations of the ISFps I've known for extended times:

1. Keep an eye/ear out for someone who is told about a desire of someone else, and then, even weeks/months later, takes steps towards fufilling that desire.

2. Keep an ear out for someone who consistently makes jokes/quotes which subtly reference a movie/show/song/game/combined experience/etc. Those who can return a quote/joke referencing the same or very similar reference, will attract the ISFp. (Or at least ask them about the reference. This is a great way of learning about what they find interesting/entertaining.)

3. Keep an ear out for someone who consistently talks about how some present standard relates to some other standard. For example, how current housing prices relate to previous prices, or how it relates to the bubble that has just popped, and how stupid home sellers are for not realizing that it's popped and are still trying to sell their homes (which has been on the market for months now) at previous market prices.

4. Once found, it might take some time to get into their circle of friends. However, this can be speeded up by a surefooted pursuit of them.

* Ask questions so you can figure out how to personalize the expectations/desires of the new environment you are creating for them, (basically, you have to know where they will fit into YOUR life) and then you just...respond...as if that environment is already there.

* They will respond readily to the personalized expectations/desires of their environment, even if you have not yet asked them for clearance to pursue them. The stronger the pursuit in the beginning, the stronger their sense of connection.

* Do NOT bombard them with what to do, when to do, how to do, etc. ... And Definitely, do NOT nag them.

* Clearly inform them of what is desired, and then let them figure out how they will fulfill that desire.

* Express your appreciation of them and the work they have done.

Example 1: I told my bf I wanted an area of the yard cleared out. I wasn't sure how we could do it, but at the time I mentioned it, I was still hesitant. When I finally got to the point and said "That area has got to go!", he worked at figuring out how to get it done. I didn't see anything about it until a couple of months later when he had almost figured it out and began taking measurements and doing calculations. Then he took a vacation week from work and cleared out the brush and axed down the trees, getting all the major work done so he could take his time in getting the smaller stuff out (breaking up the stumps into smaller pieces for easy extraction, etc). Anytime I have not been clear in what I've wanted, he has not been able to take action, and has been unhappy about my lack of clarity.

Example 2: From the moment I met my bf, I seemed to be the one pursuing (I couldn't seem to stop myself). He doesn't like the phone, so we instant messaged. However, I did tell him that I would like him to call me. He still hadn't. A few weeks later, my bday was coming up, and I told him that I would only invite him if he called me. He called me immediately. When I found out it was him on the phone, I got all excited at the surprise that he would do something for me which I knew he didn't like. From that point on, he would make the effort to call me, knowing how much I liked it. (We still spent most of our time instant messaging, and I kept the phone calls short, for his sake.) This is what I mean by personalizing his environment. Even though his new environment (me) had expectations/desires, the environment adapted to his desires as well, while still drawing him out. (BTW, he still hates the phone, but will now call me when I tell him to. Since I only tell him to under certain occasions, he's accepted it.)

Example 3: My step-brother wanted to be able to put his interests and skills to use for those he cared about. The clearer he knew what he could do for them, the easier and more enjoyable it was for him to do it. The more they appreciated what he did, the harder he would work for them the next time.

I constantly find myself lacking in the clarity department. I see how much my bf suffers when I am wishy-washy in my wants and/or am not clear in what I want. Perhaps this is why I stress the clarity point. I can easily see him (and my step brother) being happy with an ENTp, even if the ENTp regularly changes her mind.

[Polly_G]

Hmm not sure about the whole acting needy or emotional thing. I kind of take a little pride in how independent I am.

I definately don't nag. Its actually a complaint I've gotten from previous boyfriends. Apparently if you really want something you are supposed to nag about it....not my style. I just tell them and let the person take it from there at their own speed...so that's a pretty good fit actually.

I give pretty clear instructions I must say. People like me writing manuals at work etc. because I make it easy for other people to follow. I try to plan things out first because I really hate unnecessary work and don't want to cause it for others. I try as best as I can to think it through and get it right the first time. Its more when it comes to my own stuff I'm flip flopping all over the place.

I don't really like micro-managing people either. There are things I may seem to be a perfectionist about because my systems might seem easy but underneath it all they are very complex. If certain rules aren't followed it can screw it all up. There is lots I let slide though just not when it comes to systems. If they can stick to my rules which are necessary for systems to function, I have all kinds of faith in them and pretty much leave them be.

I do the whole connecting thing too like don't they see that the cost of cigarettes is having a more detrimental affect on low-income people by increasing crime rates, poverty, stress levels etc. making it difficult for them to quit? Since everyone knows that people have trouble quitting smoking when they are forced to do it, doesn't make sense that the government would try to force it. Instead they are just taking food off their plates and making their enviroment worse than it was before. Statistically more people smoke who are below the poverty level so its like again...the naive rich punishing the poor regardless of their "good intentions". hehe yeah...stuff like that.

[anndelise]

Hmm not sure about the whole acting needy or emotional thing. I kind of take a little pride in how independent I am.

I definately don't nag. Its actually a complaint I've gotten from previous boyfriends. Apparently if you really want something you are supposed to nag about it....not my style. I just tell them and let the person take it from there at their own speed...so that's a pretty good fit actually.

I give pretty clear instructions I must say. People like me writing manuals at work etc. because I make it easy for other people to follow. I try to plan things out first because I really hate unnecessary work and don't want to cause it for others. I try as best as I can to think it through and get it right the first time. Its more when it comes to my own stuff I'm flip flopping all over the place.

I don't really like micro-managing people either. There are things I may seem to be a perfectionist about because my systems might seem easy but underneath it all they are very complex. If certain rules aren't followed it can screw it all up. There is lots I let slide though just not when it comes to systems. If they can stick to my rules which are necessary for systems to function, I have all kinds of faith in them and pretty much leave them be.

I do the whole connecting thing too like don't they see that the cost of cigarettes is having a more detrimental affect on low-income people by increasing crime rates, poverty, stress levels etc. making it difficult for them to quit? Since everyone knows that people have trouble quitting smoking when they are forced to do it, doesn't make sense that the government would try to force it. Instead they are just taking food off their plates and making their enviroment worse than it was before. Statistically more people smoke who are below the poverty level so its like again...the naive rich punishing the poor regardless of their "good intentions". hehe yeah...stuff like that.

hehe, i read the first part of your response and was trying to figure out where the acting needy or emotional thing came from....then i scrolled higher and finally figured out it wasn't from my response..whew.

As for being emotional, they carry plenty of emotion around for the both of ya. They do like to cuddle though, touchy feely....like, sleeping with at least feet touching, or being in the same room while both on their own computer, type thing.

As for being needy....i think that would put too much pressure on an isfp. They want to be appreciated, not needed. I mean, it's far better for them to feel as if they are giving you what you want...instead of the pressure of having to give you what you need...if that makes sense.


I actually think that an isfp can help with a flip-flopping entp when it comes to the personal things. It's like..being able to hand it over to someone else to take care of it, and trusting that it will be taken care of. As for sticking to your rules..or guidelines...as long as those are made clear they usually don't have a problem...as long as they are still given room to maneuver in their own way.

Your last paragraph....that's the kind of stuff that i think would easily connect an entp and an isfp. I can see one person popping out one of those thoughts, the other finishing it or adding to it, each building upon what the other has said. I feel bad sometimes because i can't offer quite that to my bf. We come close, but not quite satisfying to either. Oh, and we definitely can't talk politics, he and i. But i can see him talking politics even with an entp who has different beliefs than him.

[science as magic]

the ones i have met are attracted to clever banter and oft changing reference of meaning in word and manner

[discourse]

Be carefull not to mistake ISFp with ESFp. They can be very similar at first. Similar smile, look in the eyes, good taste at clothing. But once you will start talking to her, you will understand who she is. Make multimeaningful jokes, be sarcastic, show your logical skills. ISFp loves when someone suddenly comes up with an interesting critics to something old. Like why their workingplace needs to be reformed. ESFP on the other hand, needs a distance. You will admire him or her. Find that person funny. He or she is like a hero for you. But once you two get more close, you will see that ESFp is too powerfull and needs to get what he or she wants. You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted. Can't give explanetions to it's problems, can't use your intuition to guide. Close distance will suck you out of your energy. Only way to get along with ESFP is in a company of many people, where some of them are in better socionics relationships with you. I have found the triad ENTp-INFp-ESFp working well.

One thing with ISFP what you should know is that they sometimes annoy you by asking all sort of explanations. Like why you don't get along with someone. What does this or that term mean. This usually happens with ISFps who haven't developed their skill to think independently. Older ISFps usually are able to answer alone to some of the questions they want to understand. Though they still think that everyting should be discussed through by detail before she can make her choise.

[taz]

[quote="jsb'07"]

One thing with ISFP what you should know is that they sometimes annoy you by asking all sort of explanations. Like why you don't get along with someone. What does this or that term mean. This usually happens with ISFps who haven't developed their skill to think independently. [quote]

That part is true. Especialy with teenagers like me.

[Creepy-]

Be carefull not to mistake ISFp with ESFp. They can be very similar at first. Similar smile, look in the eyes, good taste at clothing. But once you will start talking to her, you will understand who she is. Make multimeaningful jokes, be sarcastic, show your logical skills. ISFp loves when someone suddenly comes up with an interesting critics to something old. Like why their workingplace needs to be reformed. ESFP on the other hand, needs a distance. You will admire him or her. Find that person funny. He or she is like a hero for you. But once you two get more close, you will see that ESFp is too powerfull and needs to get what he or she wants. You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted. Can't give explanetions to it's problems, can't use your intuition to guide. Close distance will suck you out of your energy. Only way to get along with ESFP is in a company of many people, where some of them are in better socionics relationships with you. I have found the triad ENTp-INFp-ESFp working well.

One thing with ISFP what you should know is that they sometimes annoy you by asking all sort of explanations. Like why you don't get along with someone. What does this or that term mean. This usually happens with ISFps who haven't developed their skill to think independently. Older ISFps usually are able to answer alone to some of the questions they want to understand. Though they still think that everyting should be discussed through by detail before she can make her choise.

Well said.

That explains why my ISFp father and I manage to get along, despite his outrageous considerations of what love and romance is. My grandfather (INTj) actually called him out on it, and it was a wonderful display of socioinics and society: "You don't know what love is", he said to his ISFp son.

ESFP on the other hand, needs a distance. You will admire him or her. Find that person funny. He or she is like a hero for you. But once you two get more close, you will see that ESFp is too powerfull and needs to get what he or she wants. You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted. Can't give explanetions to it's problems, can't use your intuition to guide. Close distance will suck you out of your energy. Only way to get along with ESFP is in a company of many people, where some of them are in better socionics relationships with you.

Awesome ESFp description.
In my experience, they didn't drain me, but (she) just made me go into a defenseless sort of INTj security mode. My formality shot up through the roof, the closer she got to me, and it was just odd.

Just to highlight this again......

You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted

That is totally true in my experience

That is why I can see the ESFp/INTp duality working out.

[Joy]

Everyone's descriptions of ISFps sound like Joy.

[MySaviour]

Be carefull not to mistake ISFp with ESFp. They can be very similar at first. Similar smile, look in the eyes, good taste at clothing. But once you will start talking to her, you will understand who she is. Make multimeaningful jokes, be sarcastic, show your logical skills. ISFp loves when someone suddenly comes up with an interesting critics to something old. Like why their workingplace needs to be reformed. ESFP on the other hand, needs a distance. You will admire him or her. Find that person funny. He or she is like a hero for you. But once you two get more close, you will see that ESFp is too powerfull and needs to get what he or she wants. You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted. Can't give explanetions to it's problems, can't use your intuition to guide. Close distance will suck you out of your energy. Only way to get along with ESFP is in a company of many people, where some of them are in better socionics relationships with you. I have found the triad ENTp-INFp-ESFp working well.

One thing with ISFP what you should know is that they sometimes annoy you by asking all sort of explanations. Like why you don't get along with someone. What does this or that term mean. This usually happens with ISFps who haven't developed their skill to think independently. Older ISFps usually are able to answer alone to some of the questions they want to understand. Though they still think that everyting should be discussed through by detail before she can make her choise.

Well said.

That explains why my ISFp father and I manage to get along, despite his outrageous considerations of what love and romance is. My grandfather (INTj) actually called him out on it, and it was a wonderful display of socioinics and society: "You don't know what love is", he said to his ISFp son.

ESFP on the other hand, needs a distance. You will admire him or her. Find that person funny. He or she is like a hero for you. But once you two get more close, you will see that ESFp is too powerfull and needs to get what he or she wants. You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted. Can't give explanetions to it's problems, can't use your intuition to guide. Close distance will suck you out of your energy. Only way to get along with ESFP is in a company of many people, where some of them are in better socionics relationships with you.

Awesome ESFp description.
In my experience, they didn't drain me, but (she) just made me go into a defenseless sort of INTj security mode. My formality shot up through the roof, the closer she got to me, and it was just odd.

Just to highlight this again......

You are also helpless to suport that person with advice or doings, because you can't give what is wanted

That is totally true in my experience

That is why I can see the ESFp/INTp duality working out.

How do you see the ESFp/INTp duality working out?

My formality goes up, as well, in general, when I'm around ExFps. And I mean, I was being formal before, so when they are around I become a prick of profound proportion.

[Elysia]

What physical characteristics would make you type someone isfp?

[glam]

- direct, soft gaze
- not extremely showy or flashy with clothing, hair, makeup, etc.
- gentle and warm demeanor
- overall pleasant, clean, natural appearance

[Creepy-male]

Off static photos? Not my strong point, but, summarising what I see on this page and from personal experience...

Asymmetrical expressions. Either wildly over-the-top when deliberately posed, or soft and gentle if not. Normal photo face is typically blank or a soft expression.

If you can see their whole body, it typically holds relaxed curves as opposed to rigid lines, and looks as if they're draped over their own body, or maybe are a little bit slumpy (which is now a word).

[Creepy-Snaps]

I'm really starting to think Drew Barrymore is an ISFp.

Socionics.com ISFp celebs

"ISFps often have a characteristic stout or chubby, rounded figure. They often have short legs and a bouncy gait, giving the impression of a big springy ball. Their faces are usually smooth and round without any obvious projections. In moments of passionate conversation they can often swallow air like a fish. When ISFps try to explain things, they can move their eyebrows considerably. "

- direct, soft gaze
- not extremely showy or flashy with clothing, hair, makeup, etc.
- gentle and warm demeanor
- overall pleasant, clean, natural appearance

I like that a lot. Thanks Arthur's descriptions too.

Welcome to the forums, Elysia.

[Elysia]

Thank you!

[Zxela]

- direct, soft gaze
- not extremely showy or flashy with clothing, hair, makeup, etc.
- gentle and warm demeanor
- overall pleasant, clean, natural appearance

Yes, I couldn't agree more with this.

Round faces? I happen to have one, but I'm not sure if its always true. ^ ^

[1981slater]

ISFps look younger than they are IMO

[pianosinger]

Help me. I *believe* I now have at least one real-life example of every type, except for the SEI. I had a couple people I thought might be SEI, but have since settled on different types for them (though depending on what I learn from this thread, one or two of those may change back).

So, what are some of the more obvious things I should be looking for in order to recognize an SEI? Assume I have not had the chance to see the person's house, but I have spent at least an hour in their close company.

Would help me out. Thanks.

[Creepy-male]

#1 test that ALWAYS WORKS:

Do they hug cushions when they're sitting on the couch?

[pianosinger]

What if there's no cushion to hug? What if we're outside? Or at church?

[Beautiful sky]

#1 test that ALWAYS WORKS:

Do they hug cushions when they're sitting on the couch?

That's a good one.

They like touching other things softly too, like their cell phone, or caressing something with their fingers and they also like eating an apple or other foods and making "umm, yummy." statements.

[Creepy-male]

What if there's no cushion to hug? What if we're outside? Or at church?

It's a positive test... if they do that thing they're an SEI. If the thing is not a thing that happens, they are not necessarily not an SEI.

Also that was not an entirely serious comment, sorry

[pianosinger]

It's a positive test... if they do that thing they're an SEI. If the thing is not a thing that happens, they are not necessarily not an SEI.

Also that was not an entirely serious comment, sorry

It's okay. It's the middle of the night...

[1981slater]

The sincere smile of SEIs

[Nowisthetime]

Watch lots of videos of SEIs, like this guy

[Creepy-male]

The sincere smile of SEIs

True of (I think?) all Fe egos, a tendency toward asymmetric facial expressions.

My mum says I have a Mona Lisa smile, when I'm not face-pulling for photos.

Tendency toward milder expression, showy, over-the-top exuberance is almost always played for ironic ham and cheese. I think SEIs will tend to come across pretty soft/mild-mannered with little flashes of bright expression.



This is the characteristic "soft", blank look of an SEI, I think. This is the default state that gets punctuated with big Fe expressions.

Check this page: http://socionics.us/celebrities/sei.shtml. Andy Kaufman and Danny DeVito both have lots of pics that have a distinctive Fe look to them (bright and asymmetric).

I think SEIs also tend to have pretty loose, relaxed postures. I remember one tutor I had would just perch with a slouch on one of the desks and dangle her legs while talking to us. One of my flatmates last year would just drape himself over the couch when he was watching TV like a big blanket.

I think in general ISps give off a strong vibe of being chill or relaxed, especially the introverted subtypes. If someone looks very comfortable with themselves and their surroundings they're probably an ISp.

[The Ineffable]

Watch lots of videos of SEIs, like this guy

Do you relate to that guy? Preoccupations, message, vibes, etc?

[Absurd]

What if there's no cushion to hug? What if we're outside? Or at church?

That's a good one.

They like touching other things softly too, like their cell phone, or caressing something with their fingers and they also like eating an apple or other foods and making "umm, yummy." statements.

Hug the priest. "Umm, yummy!"

[Nowisthetime]

Do you relate to that guy? Preoccupations, message, vibes, etc?

I can relate to him, the way he talks and tells the story. Do you agree about him being SEI, or do you think his type is something else?

[EyeSeeCold]

I'd like to know this too. I have very stereotypical views of SEIs: Lazy bums or dog loving hippies.

[pianosinger]

Good stuff, people! Thanks a bunch

[The Ineffable]

Do you agree about him being SEI, or do you think his type is something else?

He does not show me anything I could connect with SEI, yes. I don't see his messages as such, the medals, that heart, his wound, stuff, there's a symbolism that lacks in this type, as far as I can tell. SEIs normally transmit simple and self-relevant things which are: 1. either obvious (may be something funny, like when you "BOOH!" someone) 2. or you've got to go and see them (ok maybe I miss some here). What he says seems to always have a meaningful interpretable nature, you the watcher need to make an appeal to your background to understand the importance of those. I feel like "a hand heart thing, so what are you looking at me, what was I supposed to say?", trying to impress but to make it appear "accidental", without showing off, like "wow! tell me more about your decorations and wound!" - which IMO sounds rather XLI. The whole picture appears to represent his merits and accomplishments.
Besides having a too treble and irritating voice, his humor is "smart" and meaningful, only apparently naive, more like Woody Allen's geekish characters.

I asked you whether you relate to that because you're a SEI and I have no idea whether this is the case or you simply picked up a random example of what was supposed to be a "SEI video".

[Slacker]

Ask about hobbies: gardening, photography, fishing. Though other types can have those hobbies too. They have that lovely quiet Si Ip pace. You need to get used to seeing that pace. And they emit warmth, which SLIs don't.

[mu4]

Much better video here for a ISFp vs the Will guy.

Also a video of a ISFP like this on the bottom is likely a ESI or EII.

[The Ineffable]

Also a video of a ISFP like this on the bottom is likely a ESI or EII.

IMO that one could be SEI - she talks and gestures like a SEI I know (face expressions, too), including being so emotionally "raced" when she was speaking. But among the two, certainly EII. It's IMO inconceivable for an ESI (LSI too) to excuse for their distractions and eventual gaffes, I have a hard time to see an ESI starting from the premise that she will mistake or bore people - doing something that was not intended.

She has a video "alejandro" she's with all that mess behind, really not "presentable". (and LMFAO @ min 3:00 check that out!)

[mu4]

IMO that one could be SEI - she talks and gestures like a SEI I know (face expressions, too), including being so emotionally "raced" when she was speaking. But among the two, certainly EII. It's IMO inconceivable for an ESI (LSI too) to excuse for their distractions and eventual gaffes, I have a hard time to see an ESI starting from the premise that she will mistake or bore people - doing something that was not intended.

She has a video "alejandro" she's with all that mess behind, really not "presentable". (and LMFAO @ min 3:00 check that out!)

I can't decide between ESI or EII, but I think Fi is the main info she's displaying.

The verbalization of the two is quite different.

[Timeless]

-SEI/ISFp