What are they, and are they warranted?
i probably notice more negative than positive out of defensiveness or something.
i don't think any of them are warranted. i think that they may stem from something that has some truth (like EIIs might tend to be more concerned with humanitarianism or behave more conventionally based on things that stem from quadra values) but i think its a mistake to type based on these criteria or see that list of sterotypes as some kind of checklist for what EIIs should be like.
as for myself, i don't see most of those things as being applicable to me, but i can see how i might be perceived as having those qualities on the outside (especially irl).
I've seen the word 'martyr' on more than one occasion in reference to INFjs lol.
Then naturally with Se PoLR you have your share of "spineless fluffballs with no capabilities of fighting back." You've also got your hyper-religious overly-moralizing unhealthy E1 nutballs, what with the out-of-control Fi that exudes out of their every pores at all hours of the day.
"And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl
It's pretty cool
Isn't there a thread like this not too long ago?
Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.
The thing about stereotypes is that often there's an element of truth in them, or there's potential for them to be true, but the problem is that they're taken as certain fact. It is not warranted to take them as certain fact. It is fair to recognize those potentials.
anyway - more stereotypes?
I don't know any EIIs who are neat freaks.
The usual stereotypes which I usually hear about INFjs are as follow: boring, prudish, pushovers. I thought these are usually misconceptions of how an INFj is like.
i do think that the importance of upbringing/environment is a really big deal when it comes to how people of the same type will express the same functions in a different way. i guess the question is whether being possessive and territorial and liking to have influence over others is incompatible with EII functions (Se polr most specifically) or not.
the thing that sticks with me is that since i haven't seen anything from you that has made you seem like a "territorial" or "forceful" person or whatever (not that i'm questioning that its true, i just barely know you )- i was wondering if you could talk about examples of this or what it's like for you.
INFjs are sexy and it's warranted.
I have always regarded the EII descriptions to be a rather idealised version of how I'd like to be - something that I could never come close to matching. There are times in the past when I've been "forceful" and many times when I've treated people in ways I'm not proud of - even right in that moment. I think it's simply the case that I can't quite be perfect (and even if I could, I'd still feel tainted by how I acted previously) - and that these concerns have always been particularly important to me.
Being Forceful: It’s fun being intimidating and having people afraid of me. Of course, few people are anymore. In high school, I had a “pet human” who… needed to grow a pair. I treated him poorly, even taking advantage of my position over him to bitch him out once. I have come to feel bad about my behavior toward him. I was also a physically violent person, which isn’t really type-related. I never did it to females, though; I always figured they’d hurt me back. It was done when I was irritated at someone or just for the heck of it.
Being in Power: A lot of it may be upbringing, but some of it is just me. I was abused as a kid, so I don’t really trust anyone but myself to know what’s best for me (this also figures into wanting control). I pride myself on noticing and ignoring blatant emotional manipulation (like sucking up). I generally feel that the world is out to get me given the chance, so I try to avoid giving people information that they could later use to manipulate me (like divulging weaknesses). I also tend to avoid showing emotional weakness unless I really trust someone. I don’t know if there’s anyone I’d actually feel safe crying in front of. People will hear me say things like, “He really pissed me off”, not, “He hurt me.” I do try to somewhat dominate certain friends, and I think it could be explained as counterphobic behavior; if I take control, they become less of a threat. If I do show weakness toward/around people, it’s because I don’t consider them a threat.
Having Control: I want to call the shots. I want to have the choice. I despise being told what to do, especially if you don’t have the authority to do so. If you do tell me what to do (outside of a supervisor-worker setting), my instinct is to disregard it and so remind you who holds the power over me, even if that action would cause me harm. I don’t usually follow through with that, but the urge is there. Depending on the person involved, I may remind them that they don’t have the right to order me around. Wanting influence over others figures into this and being in power.
Well, this is longer and more revelatory than planned. Ah well.
Last edited by Maritsa; 02-07-2011 at 07:49 AM.
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
Addition to my last reply: I don't like confronting people. I'm usually afraid that it'll just piss them off and ultimately not change a thing. Also, I like to be liked, so I tend to avoid making waves. That is why I tend to stay out of arguments here. I do get plenty pissed off and feel the urge to give others what for, but it's easier to refrain from such behavior in a forum setting. In-person, I am much more reactive. The only people I get into fights with are my family, particularly the two Betas. I used to fight with the ESE, but she got physically abusive, so I no longer feel safe going at her that way.
thanks for sharing. um, i've written out a few responses and then deleted them because i keep thinking that i'm probably projecting a lot and i don't want to accidentally invalidate what you've said or interpret what it means for your type incorrectly partly because i like the idea of you being EII and partly because i've questioned EII for myself before for some very similar reasons. so this issue of how Se polr manifests and if these issues are likely to come up for an EII are something that i wonder about, also.
sorry i had you divulge and then this wasn't any help.
I always heard that EIIs like to bake brownies and cookies.
Seems to be true for me.
Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.
*laghlagh violently slaps Ryu
Hm, stereotypes... useful in some contexts, the opposite in many others.
Some here have considered me a stereotypical INFj, even putting me down as a sort of benchmark. I guess in some ways I might agree, but in others not so much. For example, most INFjs on this board tend to be a bit more jovial and lighthearted than me. (Haha, which means I'm terribly dry and boring, since the INFjs I know are usually only moderately jolly to start off with.)
Anyway, even with me being perhaps the most stereotypical INFj here, I can definitely say that I don't fit into all of the ones listed here, and the ones where I potentially could still are not entirely accurate.
Ryene, I relate to the territorial feelings a little. Are you an oldest?
I definitely have a sense of personal belongings. I don't like when people mess with my things without my permission. I'm willing to share more often than not, but I really need to give permission first. It drove me nuts when my younger siblings would get into my things as a child and to this day I get upset if something of mine gets moved or used. As I've grown older I've noticed that this can occasionally apply to people, too, though I understand that people need to be able to form their own connections. I think this manifests mostly in the romantic realm.
I also really like the idea of being in control of myself. Which is one reason I'm cautious with alcohol. And I, too, hate having the feeling of being forced by someone to do something. There are certain things that can set me off, certain ways people treat me at times, that can really rub me the wrong way and get me into a very rebellious mood.
Some ways I can show my rebelliousness are to dig into my position and use all available arguments to prove my way is correct. Usually I am technically right in these cases, but I can end up pushing it too far. Another way I resist people who I feel are pushing me or un-rightly boxing me in or whatever is to use my network of connections to form an action that will push my way back. (Not sure if that one makes sense, so I can try to provide examples if needed.) Often what can set me off in terms of rebelling is if I feel something somewhere is unfair.
In terms of controlling other things/people, that is something I occasionally enjoy, especially as it relates to either how they affect me personally or whether or not it's the "right" way. One aspect of my current occupation that I like is how I can control much of the outcome from broad view to details.
I don't enjoy using blunt force to gain control, though. I usually only resort to that when frustrated past a certain point. And at that point, even with some practice, it tends to not go well or backfire. When that happens I feel lots of energy all bottled up in me and can sort of "tantrum".
(As an interesting side note, when I get like that, the Si egos I know, especially the Ejs, will stop and adapt whatever they're doing to do this sort of quieting thing where they're like, "Ok, it's ok. Let's fix this. Breathe. Do you want some food?" Not in so many words, of course, but they tend to stop whatever else they're doing to pay attention to my problem and relieve my inner state of wound-upness.)
INFj / EII / FiNe
"Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton
"Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been mentioned, but the stereotype I find most frustrating is the assumption that being EII means you ought to be overtly complaisant to the point of being spineless. Maybe it's some feminist feeling brewing in me but I can't stand the idea of being forced into the "delicate princess EII mold", I can't even imagine how irritating it must be for male EII's when they read some of these descriptions
Forum status: retired
FWIW, count me as another possible EII who doesn't fit the stereotype either (very much at all). I identify with one poster above who said that some of the traits are worthy kind of aspirations, but I did not come out of my mother's womb looking like St. Francis. And for that matter, nor did St. Francis. Wasn't he like some womanizing soldier before he changed? My point being that even the most morally lauded people in history had to go through some crisis or life changing event to change their approach in life to one of high virtue. Socionics/MBTI sometimes seems to be the only school of thought in the world that doesn't understand the concept of individual effort or the nature of morality. Nobody can naturally be that good.
And while EIIs might not be aggressive, I have a hard time believing anyone is programmed to be even more worthy of pity than George McFly when it comes to having a voice in the world. Even he punched Biff and kissed a girl before asking her. But no, LII and EII can't do even this. Let alone more.
As for the "conventional" part, I definitely don't aspire to it. I'm not exactly pretentious either, but that's rather odd than anyone would say that. Aren't Ne types a bit "infantile"? I mean, I think the Ne approach would apply in subtle ways outside the romantic interactions too, where they'd be anything but conventional. How does a Ne type all of the sudden become the gold standard of Stepford housewife like caretaking?
That all said, I could be another type. You never know, right?
Expecting an EII to relegate themselves to cooking brownies and dusting is as silly as an ESE expecting the same from an LII. That's like drafting Tom Brady or someone and then telling him to play off the bench as a backup punter. Real smart. What is it about Ne ego that screams "This is my ideal floor scrubber"? Not to say they couldn't, but giving them these "interests" is ignoring where they might be helpful or creative.
Besides, Si brownies are tastier.