ESTj type and subtype description from socioniko.narod.ru [Shtirlits]

[Arcanum]

After reading this whole thread, I would easily believe I am ESTj and not ENTj. I am confused here. I was a bit saddened to see so much negative oppionons and experiences about ESTjs in this thread. Still, I'm confused over here. The E and N are my biggest obstacles in identifying. T and J I am sure about.

note, if this post is considered hijack I will leave this thread alone!

universal, what is is that you relate to in the thread? Also, don't take the comments as factual information, they are just feelings people have with certain estjs. I don't know if you've noticed that the majority of people posting here were not infj.

[Kirana]

After reading this whole thread, I would easily believe I am ESTj and not ENTj. I am confused here. I was a bit saddened to see so much negative oppionons and experiences about ESTjs in this thread. Still, I'm confused over here. The E and N are my biggest obstacles in identifying. T and J I am sure about.

note, if this post is considered hijack I will leave this thread alone!

oh come now. i have a very good friend who is decidedly ESTj. sure she can be uptight, but we get along well.

[universal]

oh come now. i have a very good friend who is decidedly ESTj. sure she can be uptight, but we get along well.

Sigh, I hope this is not in a tone like I am being irrational or someting. This is why I personally don't like forums, I can't formulate myself well in it. Have to say English isn't my mother tongue either. I am not saying that you say bad things or hate ESTj's. The intend, tone and subtle things in here get lost so easily. It's so easily taken out of context.

Anyway, I think this S and N thing are real close for me or that I'm just fooling myself. As for the E and I, I just don't know anymore. The desciptions are relativly pointless, like the likes and dislikes, I mean pretty much anything on the list of dislikes, nobody likes vica versa for the likes. It's so general. Plus, to really take a test with an absolute clear mind and not based on a situation or state, it's almost impossible for me. I know, this is pointless, ranting, my appologies. I guess I better just stick with ENTj type, I just can't figure it out. Appologies for being so vague. I guess I just don't get socionics or something

[Expat]

Universal,

Those profile descriptions at 16types.info with "likes and dislikes" aren't really good ones. Try www.socionics.com, or www.socion.info.

[Arcanum]

universal, I am 90% sure that you are not estj. I just can't imagine the ones I know saying something like what you posted, in terms of meditating about your type and being worried about it. It also doesn't seem like you have any trouble with your English, unless you are actually not feeling what you are writing. This happened to me before I had been here for a while.

There is a way that could help you determine your type without having to compare what you like to what you don't:
1) try to fit yourself within the four temperaments. This will help you identify -**-.

2) decide on your J or P preference, which should be somewhat obvious.

3) compare the E and I type descriptions of what you have found already -***.

Also you might try to consider your age and what function you might be developing, which in turn, might confuse your judgment.

Hope this helps somehow

[Kirana]

i knew i should have put an emoticon.

you're not hallucinating, ESTjs do get flak here, like other SJs. i just happen to get along with them.

[science as magic]

i think it could easily say estjs are one of my favorite types as well.

[Creepy-pokeball]

STjs get such a bad rap. Stability and function sound nice to me. Loyalty sounds nice. Structure/order. Progress. Life in forward movement. Involvement. Follow through...

[Creepy-pokeball]

Oh of course. I was just listing attributes rather than just blanketing the "STj oppression." I think there is reason people whine about them on here yet, on the other hand, I can see their value as well. In terms of what you are saying, I'd turn my back and say "no thanks~" if I didnt feel the need for such a thing. I think it is important to know yourself and to know when to say no if you feel suffocated. Ideally (haha), the STj would back down if they got the hint--and if they dont get the hint then hopefully they will be told so in a constructive manner. If they cannot deal with that, then it is their loss.

[Arcanum]

Megan wrote:

@Jadae

Do you feel that all that structure, order, routine and traditionalism might eventually start being a bit oppressive for you.

I do not know, it might just be me, but I get that feeling of suffocating a lot around some types/people...like I can't quite be free.

Hi Megan, I know you were talking to Jadae when you said this but I had to ask you if by the second paragraph you were implying estjs. And when you mean suffocating, are you referring to introversion tendencies or that people oppress you? Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying :wink:

Anyway, this thread has made me consider posting what I have come to understand of estjs. It might be insightful to those estjs who are interested in what their dual sees of them... And no, I'm not being sarcastic .

--------------------------
Personal opinion: the smileys here are strange, save for a few I've grown fond of. Before anyone says anyhing, there is nothing wrong with being fond of smileys, it's completely "natural"... hehe

[science as magic]

Would you say what about them you like?

Honestly, I am not judging them(ESTj), I am merely curious.

I think their tendency to deep deliberation generates very sound insights into most matters. Of course the main ESTj I have had contact with is one who very positively utilizes his hidden agenda.

[XoX]

After reading this whole thread, I would easily believe I am ESTj and not ENTj. I am confused here. I was a bit saddened to see so much negative oppionons and experiences about ESTjs in this thread. Still, I'm confused over here. The E and N are my biggest obstacles in identifying. T and J I am sure about.

Have you tried interacting with other Deltas? Like do you feel a sense of belonging to that quadra? We don't have any ESTjs there at the moment so it would be nice to have one I would like a mirror to argue with. Arguing with your mirror is usually very productive. Usually both end up with upgraded understanding.

[Creepy-pokeball]

"By suffocated I meant just getting the feeling that you have to behave in a set, normal or "proper" way all the time are else risk being judged very harshly. I think rules and structure are often necessary but I am really uncomfortable where there are too many expectations of "good" behavior from me and too many inflexible rules to live by. I guess what I am saying is that too much structure feels a bit like imprisonment and oppression to me because it limits to what extent I can express who I am and takes away some of my personal freedom. " -Megan

I know and see what you mean

As far as ESTjs go for the post as a whole, Im glad some serious light has been shed. Imagine being an ESTj and coming here only to be insulted as some theoretical tyrant. Bleh, not fun--and it certainly doesnt match reality as a whole. So many sides to explore, so little time =)

[Arcanum]

I will have a post soon on my views of ESTJs. It's just that these type of things take time for me... It has to be of my liking before posting.

[universal]

Hello, sorry I'm still alive, but I haven't much time for forums, still I wanted to tell I think am not ESTj. The E and N are just seem real close calls for me, so I am not very sure. But ENTj I guess. (earlier in this thread I brought this up). I read all provided links, bottom line seems it's close for me. I guess ENTj is the closest.

Thinking about ESTj's, I remember being a kid we once had an ESTj teacher. I remember being in his class once (11 or 12 years old) and he picked up some guys desk and chair and threw both the chair and desk down the stairs for the guy to pick up while the kid was in tears! It seems the man was kind of pissed of about the guy not following his orders. Living in a village then, so his character was generally well known.

[Arcanum]

universal wrote:

Hello, sorry I'm still alive, but I haven't much time for forums, still I wanted to tell I think am not ESTj. The E and N are just seem real close calls for me, so I am not very sure. But ENTj I guess. (earlier in this thread I brought this up). I read all provided links, bottom line seems it's close for me. I guess ENTj is the closest.

Thinking about ESTj's, I remember being a kid we once had an ESTj teacher. I remember being in his class once (11 or 12 years old) and he picked up some guys desk and chair and threw both the chair and desk down the stairs for the guy to pick up while the kid was in tears! It seems the man was kind of pissed of about the guy not following his orders. Living in a village then, so his character was generally well known.

I really didn't think you were, but it really doesn't matter. How do you know your teacher was ESTJ? Wanting people to follow orders is not necessarily ESTJ.

Apparently, no one wanted to add anything on the thread I started . In all honestly, do some of you find me intimidating?

[Creepy-pokeball]

I dont find you that way. I think you may expect too much from here, though. At any rate, I gave up expecting much of value here with the exception of a few rare gems here and there. I guess you could restate the original intent but Im not sure if the outcome will be the same or not again.

[Arcanum]

Thanks Jadae, I do tend to have certain expectations that later cause me to get a little frustrated. About the outcome of all this, we'll see what happens.

[universal]

I really didn't think you were, but it really doesn't matter. How do you know your teacher was ESTJ? Wanting people to follow orders is not necessarily ESTJ.

Apparently, no one wanted to add anything on the thread I started . In all honestly, do some of you find me intimidating?

That teacher being ESTj was not based on that action alone. His overall character really fits the ESTj. I understand your fair point about orders not being necessarily related.

I don't think you should add to much value to wheter or not people respond to a thread or not. I don't think you are intimidating, but in my case I havn't much time for forums and not enough knowledge about socionics.

[cracka]

First off, sorry for the long post...I just wanted to add my reply all at once...lol i'm sure I could comment a lot more on this thread but I just didn't feel like typing anymore.

Very traditional... Have this weird thing for old antiques (a

lot of em seem to like to watch antiques road show)..

Hahahahaha, I watch it all the time and never really knew why... :wink:

I am trying to find some ESTjs that are interested in socionics, I need one to write a type description for the socion.info website. Well, I guess it is just not like the type to be interested in this sort of things anyways.

Not totally true, but from my point of view, i'm not really here to figure out other people's types and whatnot as much as I'm here to learn more about me and how I can get along with others, so in a sense, i'm interested in just ESTJ's vs socionics.

my Dad thinks its some major bullshit...
They are way to narrow minded..
a downside of the ESTJ.

I think it's rather interesting myself. So, not all ESTJ's have that downside, just most.

Over-confident show-off who looks down on others who don't live his oh-so-sophisticated life, does not have a clue about interpersonal dynamics around him and thus steps on people's toes left and right. And very possessive. Sorry for the rant and I apologize to the nice ESTjs out there, but that guy truly traumatized me. He is the only person I know who is an ESTj. I probably shy away from them....

They are very possessive and domineering with their opposite who is idealistic and completely submissive. Makes sense, and doesnt make them wrong in that regard.

They do step on people toes, and they do think they are sophisticated at times.

Seem to like whatever music they grew up with... (never into the new stuff).

I disagree about them being trendy... Horrible dressers.

I tend to think I'm a decent dresser, somewhat trendy but not in a metrosexual sort of way...haha

Also, I do listen to the music I grew up with but I also listen to new music...people say I'm wierd for listening to Country and rap/hip hop. I guess it's just my personality. :wink:

I try not to step on peoples toes, but if someone is in the way and not moving....well... And I always think I'm sophisticated...hahahaha.
Possessive. Yes.

estjs are demons ...

...but at least they get their work done .
Not demons, come to think of it. Psychotic killer stomperbots :wink: .

that's a different name than I've ever been called...but I'm ok with that...

The thing about ESTjs is that it takes a lot to get their respect. Basically, in my experience, you have to prove them wrong in their judgement (if it's negative) of you. After that they actually listen and don't push aside your ideas or suggestions as much; of course it has to be reasonable and it should make sense (or be beneficial somehow).
Plus, their loyalty to family or those they love is really admirable. Great leaders who aren't afraid of getting things done by themselves.

Like all types they have their down sides, but we've mentioned too much of that already.

Actually, I will respect anyone when i first meet them, but if they say or do something that causes me to lose any little bit of respect for them it does, as you said, take a lot to get it back. Once I'm on good terms with someone for even a small amount of time, I tend to think I'm a good friend and someone they can ask for anything.

They are good at kicking inactive asses. "Get up and get moving" is one of their mottos.

mine is more like, "dude, you haven't done shit all day, get up and do something" but that's close enough.

I am an INFj, and I know ESTjs as great people.
Instead of putting their numerous positive qualities (there are many, believe me), I better say that I know 3 ESTjs close and well for a long time, and honestly they're the best among all my friends.
Do not be decieved with their external strength and 'roughness', they're quite sensitive, tender and kind inside (well, deep inside, though ).

Thank you. :wink:
As for the last part of your paragraph, Way deep inside... Once ya find it life with an ESTJ would become a tad easier and more fun than the boring ESTJ life that most here seem to know.

My ESTj sister has an ability to know what peoples strengths are. I don't know if its just her or an ESTj thing.

I can say i usually know what to tell other people to do based on what I see that they are good at...lol

By that I mean that ESTjs sometimes are "in competition" with others - like the guy who has to have a new car because his neighbor just got one.

Moreover, I never saw either of the ESTjs trying to "sabotage" others - it was always more like, "I have to make sure I'm not more flawed than they are" but not with the result of their wanting to sabotage others.

I can say I'm always in competition with others whether it's sports, money, job, or just how much I can drink...lol But I'd never sabotage someone for keeping up or even beating me at something...Not to say I won't do what I have to do to beat someone at something... If it takes practice to get good at something you better believe that I'll practice 20 times more than they will until I can beat them at whatever the challenge is. Don't get me wrong, I think I'm the best at everything to a point...lol, when it comes down to it...I could never beat tiger woods in a golf match or kick a soccer ball like Pele...but gimme a chance and I'll at least impress them...lol

I have an ESTj friend, but he's not like that Megan. He complains about people at work being incompetent or lazy, but not out of competition with them. It's more like he wants them to be more like him.

Well, Yeah.

I'll reassure you! I do not see that kind of behavior from an ESTj at alllll. My ESTj friend is ultra respectful/sesitive of others triumphs. In fact, she's the one that receives the kind of negativity you are speaking about. She got that from an ISTj. The ISTj roomate would always measure herself up against my friend.

It irritated the crap out of my friend. I've seen my friend get competitive, but never to the point of directly/verbally/intentionally sabotaging people. If they earned it, she is thrilled for them. Now, if they CHEATED or somehow CHARMED their way to a win, ohhh, watch out, her fury would come through.

But it was FURY. It wasn't sly and manipulative like you are describing.

If someone does something worth praising them for I'll be the first to shake their hand and tell them what a damn good job they did... but like you said, if they cheated, charmed, or more what I see KISSING ASS then i'll be the first to tell that person they don't deserve it since it wasn't earned thru hard work and such. This is my biggest pet peave with people at the large corporation I work in is that by kissing ass they get 10 times farther than anyone actually doing all the hard work. Being an ESTJ, this makes me really wanna beat thier ass.



Just felt like adding an ESTJ point of view here...I know this is an old thread but i felt like I would add a little from my point of view.

[cracka]

I'm on vacation here at my parents house here in Tennessee in the middle of nowhere and I'm actually off work for an entire month, something i don't remember doing since high school about my sophmore year. So, with that said I have nothing but time to post on here. I guess i'm gonna have to just type my opinions on just about everything to pass the time...lol :wink:

[Creepy-pokeball]

I'm on vacation here at my parents house here in Tennessee in the middle of nowhere and I'm actually off work for an entire month, something i don't remember doing since high school about my sophmore year. So, with that said I have nothing but time to post on here. I guess i'm gonna have to just type my opinions on just about everything to pass the time...lol :wink:

Like I told ya before, I like your spirit. And the funny thing is, I love using the word "cracker' in jokes lol. I'm glad ya came here. It adds a nice human element to make this all feel much more 3-D.

[cracka]

I'm sure it's a bit easier to having an ESTJ around instead of just reading how others view them...but you can say that about all the types here i guess. Personally I don't mind being the ONLY one, then I just stick you all with my point of view and nobody can really go against it...lol

and thanks for the welcome fever.

[Beautiful sky]

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