The Lion King
Simba- EIE-Se, 7w8 sx/sp (ENFP)
Scar- IEI-Te, 3w4 sp/sx (ENTJ)
Mufasa- ESI-Fi, 2w1 so/sx (INFJ)
Sarabi- EII-Si, s9w8 sx/so (ISFJ)
Nala- IEI-Se, 7w8 sx/sp (ENFP)
Timon- ILE-Si, 7w6 sp/sx (ENTP)
Pumbaa- ESE-Si, 7w6 sp/sx (ESFP)
Zazu- LSE-Ti, p6w5 so/sp (ISTJ)
Rafiki- IEI-Ne, 4w5 so/sx (INFJ)
Shenzi- LSE-Te, 8w7 sp/so (ESTP)
Banzai- SLE-Se, 7w8 sp/sx (ESTP)
Ed- ESE-Se. 7w8 sp/sx (ESFP)
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Waiting for Galen to show up...
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
What's with the subtypes?
8-subtype system.Originally Posted by Director Abbie
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
LOL, yeah. He'll probably kill you, Aleksei.Waiting for Galen to show up...
(seriously)
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
It's not nice to mess with peoples' PoLR.
Bah, I can take him.LOL, yeah. He'll probably kill you, Aleksei.
(seriously)
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
...still wouldn't bet on you to win.Bah, I can take him.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I have Simba on my side. :wink:
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
You haven't done it yet, why should I have any reason to believe you'll do it now?Bah, I can take him.
From what I saw in our PMs, your reasoning for their types are based on poor knowledge of the story itself, a miserably stereotyped understanding of socionics, a faulty understanding of enneagram, and what appears to me to be a poor ability to understand the nature of relationships between two people, which feeds into your poor understanding of the story.
btw my current typings of the characters are as follows:
Simba: Fi-ENFp 6w5 sx/sp
Nala: Te-ISTp 5w6?
Mufasa: Te-ESTj 8w9
Serabi: INFj? 6w5? We barely see her so it's hard to tell
Scar: Ni-ENFj Enneatype is harder because I don't really understand his motivation
Rafiki: Ne-INFj 9w?
Timon: Ne-ENTp 7w6?
Pumbaa: Si-ISFp? Neither Pumbaa's nor Timon's character are really fleshed out, but they both have this immense air of Alpha about them.
Zazu: ESFj? Again, his character isn't detailed or analyzed all that much
I re-watched the movie yesterday, which is why for example, I re-typed Mufasa ESI and Scar IEI (Scar spends half the damn movie sitting on his ass). I am not budging on Simba's type, and see no reasonable justification for typing him anything but EIE.
I rely entirely on what Socionics IM elements are defined by the creators of Socionics as being. It's not my fault that you think all human behavior is universal...a miserably stereotyped understanding of socionics
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I already argued at length against this typing, and I only have one thing to add to it: your earlier argument about Hakuna Matata and relaxation is bullshit. Hakuna Matata has nothing to do with relaxation -- it is simply not giving a fuck, which EIEs can easily do. The movie shows exactly one instance of Simba relaxing, which happend after he ate, and during which he did not simply enjoy the moment as anvaluing type would in such a situation. Instead he looked up at the stars and felt nostalgia (which is an
There is no way Nala is not an Ethical type. She is essentially equal to Simba in most every way -- as playful, emotionally expressive and emotionally driven as he is. The reason I type her an introvert is because she seems more subdued than the incredibly bombastic Simba. She is, at minimum, very, very far from Fe-PoLR. If she and Simba were Deltas I'd actually type him IEE-Se, and her IEE-Fi.Nala: Te-ISTp 5w6?
I actually could understand where you would draw this typing (Socionics anyway). However, I still disagree with it.Mufasa: Te-ESTj 8w9
On Enneagram: Mufasa appears unconcerned with control and independence, and is merely concerned with taking care of his kingdom, which is a 2 or a 1 motivation. He is further largely unafraid of confrontation when it is necessary, which rules out wing-9. 8w9s are never outwardly confrontational, but instead manipulate people into doing what they want. 9s and wing-9s experience rage upon being challenged, but not display this rage and outwardly suppress it to keep the peace. Mufasa, on the other hand, displays the opposite behavior: Snarled at Scar when Scar implied that he'd harm him, but then later revealed that all he felt was disappointment. If he's not 2w1 (or 1w2), then he's an 8w7, and the single most healthy example of an 8 in fiction.
On Socionics: Mufasa is in fact more aggressive and assertive than I'd expect an EII to be, but he's a fairly playful person; seems to enjoy tormenting Zazu every bit as much as hisvaluing kid does, which is a strong point against
suggestive: LSEs and LIEs are stiff, strong, businesslike people. Have trouble letting loose and having fun. Given that, and given the fact he is anyway a less energetic and proactive person than I'd expect an EJ to be, I think ESI fits best.
9w8. The single most salient feature in her portrayal is complete outwardly calm and conciliatory behavior.Serabi: INFj? 6w5? We barely see her so it's hard to tell
Scar should be one of the easiest characters there to Enneatype. Be Prepared is basically about his core motivation:Scar: Ni-ENFj Enneatype is harder because I don't really understand his motivation
Bolded: E3 motivation. Scar feels frustrated that he plays second fiddle to Mufasa, and thus desires to depose him and be seen in all his glory as ruler. I initially believed he was 8w7, but he wants to be seen as successful, which is 3 in nature.Is simply why I'll
Be king undisputed
Respected, saluted
And seen for the wonder I am
Yes, my teeth and ambitions are bared
Be prepared!
On Socionics: IP temperament. If you watch the movie, Scar is mobilized maybe a third of the time. For the vast majority of the movie he's sitting on his ass, by himself, looking bored. He's an extroverted introvert (and indeed I type him an extrovert in MBTI), he enjoys barking orders and tormenting Zazu, but he's still an introvert.
IEI-Ne 4w5. He's spacey, very playful and largely unconcerned about offending people (a behavior that does not fit theRafiki: Ne-INFj 9w?
Yes.Timon: Ne-ENTp 7w6?Glad you could get one type right at least...
Si-ESE. Pumbaa is way too energetic and open for an introverted introvert.Pumbaa: Si-ISFp? Neither Pumbaa's nor Timon's character are really fleshed out, but they both have this immense air of Alpha about them.
Zazu is a stuffy fucking piece of shit, and every Fe-valuer in the movie (and even non-Fe valuers) had him as butt monkey for that precise reason. Zazu is an LSE-Ti.Zazu: ESFj? Again, his character isn't detailed or analyzed all that much
Last edited by Aleksei; 12-22-2010 at 04:45 AM.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
[...]
Also I would request that this thread be split off from where it stops talking about Lion King.
=> http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33757 <=
So yeah... never actually seen the film. Is it cool or what?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
You've never seen The Lion King? Not when you were young? : O
...I don't watch movies or TV much, but this is almost like an exception.
i almost cant stand it bc of what scar does to simba. serious sadness. i didnt even fully comprehend what was going on when i saw the movie as a kid, i was probably not emotionally equipped to handle it or something. ahhhh.
its a great movie, yeah.
also idk the characters types but i know that sometimes i feel nostalgic and sometimes i want to relax and sometimes i dont give a fuck.
Oh, I watched a lot of TV and films as a child, especially Disney stuff. I've seen most TV series and several movies, but I somehow missed The Lion King, I don't know why.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
the hakuna matada thing says something about how timon and pumba are happy living (they came up with this "lifestyle" on their own - although really what else are they supposed to do? there's like nothing to do) and it does seem rather Si focused i guess. simba was just an impressionable kid who absorbs everything like a sponge and he had no where to go so he stayed with them and lived their way and it provided him an escape as Aleksei mentioned. i don't see this really saying anything about simba's type or having to mean simba is Si DS or Si valuing. (i kind of saw simba as SEEish)
it reminds me of mowgli almost (don't have an opinion on mowgli's type or think this has anything to do with that) who was also impressionable and absorbed info like a sponge and was happy to adapt to baloo's way of life and the vulture's way of life and learn to be like them (just anyone who would take him in and give him a way of life). i mean i see it as just a sort of typical "child character" looking for adult guidance (although i mean mowgli stubbornly wants to stay in the jungle where as simba has more of a screw it my life is over attitude and an absence of wanting anything because of what happened... but i would say mowgli is a more headstrong and stubborn character in general and more likely to stage little rebellions).
i would also say that simba's adopted way of life as he grows up is more about running away from the things he can't face than it is about a need to seek "relaxation." he has forgotten "who he is" and his responsibility as "king" in favor of a living in the moment screw-it way of life where he doesn't have to remember and can simply enjoy the moment. this isn't beneficial to his well-being (other characters pushing him to face it and trying to remind him of who he is does actually help him). timon and pumba were safe because they didn't know who he was and they didn't push him so they just inadvertently helped him sink further into running away from himself. it seems kind of E7-ish perhaps (with simba).
with timon and pumba they just don't have a reason to do anything else (and after they realize the situation i think they were more than willing to help simba if i remember right, though perhaps there could have been some resistance at first because of not wanting to lose him or feeling abandoned by him or something).
Rafiki is definitely not an EII, he's all about using
I would agree with Aleksei on this one, although I'm not going to use this odd subtyping system of his.
Now, Rafiki being an IEI, we can see that Scar's typing of IEI by Aleksei looks a little odd. While Rafiki conforms to the IEI mold of following and guiding a leader rather than having the determination to become one himself, Scar very clearly wants to actively achieve his aspirations himself, pointing at an EJ temperament. For this reason, I would agree with Galen in typing him EIE. The accepting subtype (Ni) does explain why he's a little more lazy than your standard (Fe) subtype of EIE.
As for Simba, I am reasonably confident he does not have
How is Simba's character particularly ethical in any way? As far as I can tell he's much more concerned with understanding his place in the world, as opposed to acting in a supposedly "correct" manner.As for Simba, I am reasonably confident he does not have
"Scar: Simba, Simba, please. Please have mercy, I beg you.
Adult Simba: You don't deserve to live.
Scar: But, Simba, I... am... family. It's the hyenas who are the real enemy. It was their fault. It was their idea!
Adult Simba: Why should I believe you? Everything you ever told me was a lie.
Scar: What are you going to do? You wouldn't kill your *own* uncle...?
Adult Simba: No, Scar. I'm not like you.
Scar: Oh, Simba, thank you. You are truly noble. I'll make it up to you, I promise. How can I, ah, prove myself to you? Tell me anything, anything.
Adult Simba: Run. Run away, Scar. And never return.
Scar: Yes. Of course. As you wish,
[Scar's words turn into a snarl]
Scar: your Majesty!
[throws embers in Simba's face]
Adult Simba: Aaah!"
Classic Disney moment but would it happen if our heroes were Logicals?
I'd say that Pumba is a SEI-Fe. He may be expressive but I wouldn't say he has a very EJish nature. Indeed, he's mostly just happy to follow Timon's lead, contributing to the conversation where he can. I'd place his Extraverted Sensing as Ignoring rather than Demonstrative, simply due to his lack of demonstration of it. Rather than be jokingly forceful, he instead resorts to charging at hyenas in the rare situations where his friends are in danger. Compare to Tigger: who pounces on his friends in a very good example of ESE Se demonstration. Winnie the Pooh is of course an SEI and he quite passively adapts to what Tigger is doing, in the same way that Pumba adapts to Timon's eccentric habits.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
