I notice this in Fe and Si types.
Yes, Fe and Si. I think for me it's more frustrating when someone does not like my displays (or denies requests for some sort of initiative) than if they don't show much often, which I don't really expect.
Ethicals - show their feelings/nature of the relationship
Logicals - unsure/protective of their feelings/nature of the relationship.
Intuiter - expects others to display affection.
Senser - expects others to accept their displays of affection.
(Holds true... mum will go out of her way to give people gifts or do stuff for them entirely on her own initiative, and likewise for me and giving out hugs/cheering people up/on/whatever. I've noted the same in one each of the two ESFs as well.)
EDIT
Why are Expressed and Wanted in lockstep?
I can't really answer the poll questions in these terms. In terms of affection with an SO for instance, I would feel it's too cold without the other person being affectionate and physically so and would be utterly uninterested in a romantic relationship lacking that. I eventually can become very affectionate in such a relationship but I'm not immediately comfortable with being that way (it could perhaps even eventually change me beyond bounds of that relationship alone, I have no idea). I'm often very non-physical with people and don't feel comfortable being physical with most people. My relationship with my mom for instance isn't really very affectionate and it's because I just find that she's tends to be so invasive and smothering and I just want to run away. So I kind of think that where I am now being highly affectionate seems to be reserved to romantic relationships and of course interactions with animals. I definitely do not feel comfortable with people being openly affectionate towards me, especially physically so, when I don't feel we know each other very well and I don't know how well I would even want to know them... it generally is frightening. But inwardly I very much crave total intimacy and affection, but on the surface I feel fine living without it. It just always feels like an invasion of my space and personal boundaries. And I just don't seem to naturally exude affection towards others unless they do it first and I feel okay with it (which in the case of my mom I just don't... I always feel like it's depriving me of my autonomy as a person and it hurts because I can't really tell her this because she wouldn't understand and it might hurt her... but it's just that it doesn't feel okay... and I put total faith in my instincts about when to run away, well perhaps not total... but everything in me seems to want to run from it and so I sort of obey myself). Anyway the whole realm of it is difficult to me and something I don't really know how to deal with which is why I avoid it. And when I reveal anything like this I fear some kind of "awwwww" reaction and people being invasive as though it's an invitation to be invasive and barge through my personal boundaries. Anyway this could all go back to a f-ed up upbringing, so I don't really know how I'd connect it with socionics concepts in myself.
Affection is subjective.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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I can survive without affection because I'm stubborn. I can also do without fakeyaffection. Real affection is nice, though. I wish I could have a decent amount of affection for people.
Require much.
Notice much.
Feel much.
*Express little.
*(Unless someone straight-up asks for it or explicitly says "Go ahead and give it to me whenever you want.")
As in, expression's specific to individual types/functions/etc.?Originally Posted by ICCold
As in affection is more than just "a lot or a little". People expect/show affection in different ways.
A lot to me may be just a smile, a lot to another may be a slap on the butt.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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I think it depends strongly on your relation to Fe. I'm not sure if other functions are involved, but it's primarily Fe.
I tend not to show much affection in public because I generally feel very uncomfortable doing so (Fe-polr). In a private situation, I guess I'd act different.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
It still sometimes seems so to Fi valuers.
Hmm, I just remembered two females I know pulled the "feel how strong I am" move on me. I am so oblivious.
*introspects to recreate the experience*
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
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Fidei Defensor
Pics?
*for the rest of us*
ST: Hide/Give
NF: Show/Take
SF: Show/Give
NT: Hide/Take
ST = Caring
NF = Sharing
SF = Overbearing
NT = ?
Use your manipulative womanly charm. Speak seemingly truthful and as if you just figured out something and have accepted it and tell him something like "Oh, you're gay. So that's what this is about. No wonder you aren't interested in me." If he thinks you're being serious, you'll get what you want, and probably quite forcefully too.
You know you have that subconscious female play-book.
starfall has a sle boyfriend, why would she care about trying to make things "sort of work" with iles?Use your manipulative womanly charm. Speak seemingly truthful and as if you just figured out something and have accepted it and tell him something like "Oh, you're gay. So that's what this is about. No wonder you aren't interested in me." If he thinks you're being serious, you'll get what you want, and probably quite forcefully too.
You know you have that subconscious female play-book.
1 - low with affection. I do not require much affection to be satisfied
2 - moderate affection is alright, but it's not important to me
The above are true for physical affection but not for verbal affection.
3 - I am affectionate & require it a good amount from others
I require some verbal affection but I'm not good at expressing it myself.
I didn't vote in the poll because none of the options quite fit me.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Oh, I dunno. I just wanted to post a solution to the specific type of 'problem' she kind of outlined.
Well okay, never-mind.
Pining and staring.
People I'm close to want me to be nicer, but the outside world tends to view me as somebody that's 'too weak' and needs to be more aggressive, and not so nice. But that just proves my universal point that they're in an occupation not for their own self-confidence, but to be vampires. Ie somebody else's misfortunate is their success.
But when everybody starts lining up to tell me how unimportant I am , it just kinda makes me know I'm right as an activist/artist that sees through society's illusions.
This makes me realize though that we all get stuck with our own perceptions really, whatever they are, which is another topic.
What I was going to say.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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Fidei Defensor
I think affection can be broken down as follows: Fe > Fi > Si. Level of affection diminishes with your capacity to use one of these functions and your valuation of them. As such we have: ESE > EIE > SEI > EII > IEI > IEE > ESI > SEE > SLI > LSE > LII > LSI > ILE > SLE > LIE > ILI.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
3) or 4) for me with loved ones. However, I don't generally feel the need for "affection" between friends. So I'd say - romantic relationship: high need & level of "giving". Non-romantic relationship: nothing wrong with low affection. Btw I'm more of a physical affection kind of person. Words don't do much unless there's also physical closeness (I wouldn't do long-distance relationships, unless I knew it was temporary).
Oh, I also don't get embarassed by PDAs at all. In fact the ISFj girlfriends I've had seemed to get more embarassed than me.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
For me showing affection is...
-Showing up on time to whatever you told me to show up to..
-Making sure to celebrate birthdays/holidays.
-Remembering/taking what you said seriously
-Replying promptly, being reliable
-Taking up responsibility and doing little things to make your life easier
so yeah, through little actions I guess..
well if it's only romantic relationships I could probably vote for 4 in the poll, since that's the only kind of romantic relationship i'd be interested in afaik... it's just everything before such a relationship is established where it's like 0.
ESI>SEE? EIE>SEE? you can do better,buddy.
why would anyone be embarassed by his/her personal digital assistant?
I normally try to be somewhat affectionate, but I'm usually met with a "you have no idea what you're doing, do you?" sort of response, which leads me to generally responding to others' levels of affection.
I'm very affectionate with my family. I'm somewhat affectionate with my friends, though it's usually limited to hello/goodbye hugs or spontaneous ones when they're having a bad day. And sometimes I can be affectionate with random strangers
I gotta admit, this causes big problems with my "touch me not" duals.
IEE
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