How do you change a selfish IEI/INFp?

[Computer Loser]

So I have this IEI little bro...We get along well for the most part except sometimes he can come off as a little selfish.

-talking back to my parents disrespectfully, don't treat older people any differently.
-wanting to leave church early, not wanting to socialize with certain ppl.
-always wants to get clothes...very looks conscious. doesn't like to take pictures.

He can be a goofball but at the same time he can be incredibly mean. I try to set an example through my actions, but nothing ever changes. I'm 22...He's 20 going on 21 soon...I think it's time he matures a little, but it seems like this is gonna go on forever.

[thePirate]

I understand talking to people disrespectfully, but I dont understand how wanting to leave church early, not wanting to socialize with people, wanting to get clothes, and not liking to take pictures are such bad things?

if he doesnt want to talk to people, I dont see why he should be forced to; if hes leaving church early, he probably doesnt want to be there in the first place. as for clothes, is it putting a strain on family income or something? the picture thing is whatever too, I mean you cant expect to force someone to do things they dont want to do and have them be happy about it; is any of this hurting anyone, really?

this post was abit unhelpful. hoping to provide you with a better answer, just want to fully understand the situation before I do.

[Computer Loser]

oh haha, sorry. I guess it is in a way my problem, too, since I have this picture in my head of how people ought to behave.

I don't know...I feel like he makes people a little uncomfortable around him by doing those things - it's like he's not aware of how others feel.

It's like when you invite people to your birthday party, and there's that one guy that's not enjoying himself, and that radiates to others around him.

Or that little kid that keeps complaining in the car during a long road trip- It just gets on your nerves a little.

[Aiss]

Except for always wanting to get clothes, he sounds like I was a few years ago. I don't go to church anymore, and I'm so sickeningly nice to some people that they run away from me without having to show them disrespect. I hope your brother manages to adapt as well.

Oh, and you would likely find it easier to change a brother than to change your brother.

I don't know...I feel like he makes people a little uncomfortable around him by doing those things - it's like he's not aware of how others feel.

You sure he is Fe-creative, not Fe-PoLR?

[thePirate]

oh haha, sorry. I guess it is in a way my problem, too, since I have this picture in my head of how people ought to behave.

I don't know...I feel like he makes people a little uncomfortable around him by doing those things - it's like he's not aware of how others feel.

It's like when you invite people to your birthday party, and there's that one guy that's not enjoying himself, and that radiates to others around him.

Or that little kid that keeps complaining in the car during a long road trip- It just gets on your nerves a little.

lol! no worries

As far as not socializing with other people, IEIs can get really shy. There have been quite a few times where I have wanted to socialize with people but was too inhibited to, despite wanting to do so.

I start to think 'ok I have to talk, do it now..no, not the right time..now, aww crap should have done it then..now its weird, omg its getting weirder say something' etc etc until it snowballs and Im paralyzed with anxiety. So, it could be that hes actually hyper aware of whats going on and its getting to him(we can get pretty self conscious at times, lol).

I read on wikisocion that one of the roles for IEI is good natured tag along, and I feel like I can get stuck into that role if not open enough. Sometimes, all we need is a little introduction or a little interest shown our way for us to light up. We can feel cut out from the group sometimes, like outsiders looking in - from this vantage point it becomes very hard to socialize. We definitely dont want to make a bad impression, I dont know if other IEIs are like this, but I feel that its better to stay quiet sometimes than say something awkward - which I am more prone to do in that state of anxiety.

It helps to know that its ok to be a douche, like its ok to fuck up. People telling me to relax and go fuck up and have fun help; but also people making fun of each other and ME lightheartedly in a group helps me open up and not take things so seriously

As far as the road trips, ahhh! that must suck. Seems to be a common trait among IEIs to complain excessively. Introducing him to some philosophy and self improvement principles/books/programs may help tremendously. It has a lot of useful mindset shifts that would help him have a better outlook if implemented properly. If hes an IEI, he would probably be into that sort of thing.

My advice though is to talk to him, tell him how its affecting people emotionally in a really non judgmental way. There could just be really simple misunderstandings going on. I know you just care about him and want whats best for him, he may genuinely be unaware of how its affecting others. Don't attempt to force him into anything, but attempt to compromise - LSI have always been reasonable people to me so I don't think this will be too hard a feat to accomplish. With the right attitude and a little persistence, we're more than likely to meet you halfway.

[Computer Loser]

lol! no worries

As far as not socializing with other people, IEIs can get really shy. There have been quite a few times where I have wanted to socialize with people but was too inhibited to, despite wanting to do so.

I start to think 'ok I have to talk, do it now..no, not the right time..now, aww crap should have done it then..now its weird, omg its getting weirder say something' etc etc until it snowballs and Im paralyzed with anxiety. So, it could be that hes actually hyper aware of whats going on and its getting to him(we can get pretty self conscious at times, lol).

I read on wikisocion that one of the roles for IEI is good natured tag along, and I feel like I can get stuck into that role if not open enough. Sometimes, all we need is a little introduction or a little interest shown our way for us to light up. We can feel cut out from the group sometimes, like outsiders looking in - from this vantage point it becomes very hard to socialize. We definitely dont want to make a bad impression, I dont know if other IEIs are like this, but I feel that its better to stay quiet sometimes than say something awkward - which I am more prone to do in that state of anxiety.

It helps to know that its ok to be a douche, like its ok to fuck up. People telling me to relax and go fuck up and have fun help; but also people making fun of each other and ME lightheartedly in a group helps me open up and not take things so seriously

As far as the road trips, ahhh! that must suck. Seems to be a common trait among IEIs to complain excessively. Introducing him to some philosophy and self improvement principles/books/programs may help tremendously. It has a lot of useful mindset shifts that would help him have a better outlook if implemented properly. If hes an IEI, he would probably be into that sort of thing.

My advice though is to talk to him, tell him how its affecting people emotionally in a really non judgmental way. There could just be really simple misunderstandings going on. I know you just care about him and want whats best for him, he may genuinely be unaware of how its affecting others. Don't attempt to force him into anything, but attempt to compromise - LSI have always been reasonable people to me so I don't think this will be too hard a feat to accomplish. With the right attitude and a little persistence, we're more than likely to meet you halfway.

ah, that makes a lot of sense, thanks for the feedback, dawg.

[Computer Loser]

Except for always wanting to get clothes, he sounds like I was a few years ago. I don't go to church anymore, and I'm so sickeningly nice to some people that they run away from me without having to show them disrespect. I hope your brother manages to adapt as well.

Oh, and you would likely find it easier to change a brother than to change your brother.



You sure he is Fe-creative, not Fe-PoLR?

I've been doubtful too about this, because he can be a total clown and lighten the family up on one side. My mom says our family would be so boring without him around, which I tend to agree with. But on the other end, he can be the complete opposite...I dunno. Meh.

[JWC3]

I think you should sit him down and calmly deliver the message that you are displeased... with your fists.

I mean if he's anything like me then the one thing that he understands is getting hit in the face. Shit hurts.

[Computer Loser]

I think you should sit him down and calmly deliver the message that you are displeased... with your fists.

I mean if he's anything like me then the one thing that he understands is getting hit in the face. Shit hurts.

Hahaha, sometimes I want to punch his face so bad. Can't do it though.

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot...

[shakealittle]

I have an IEI brother too and I'd say for the most part, IEIs can come off a bit shy but their vibe is like they accept most people and have a 'live and let live' attitude. I guess he's still coming to terms with who he is and needs a bit more confident.

Sometimes you just need them to get involved in something (eg. socialising) to show them that yes, they are able to do it and they actually get quite inspired to change. They just need to get out of that rut, and usually they want that to happen but need someone to help them.

[Beautiful sky]

So I have this IEI little bro...We get along well for the most part except sometimes he can come off as a little selfish.

-talking back to my parents disrespectfully, don't treat older people any differently.
-wanting to leave church early, not wanting to socialize with certain ppl.
-always wants to get clothes...very looks conscious. doesn't like to take pictures.

He can be a goofball but at the same time he can be incredibly mean. I try to set an example through my actions, but nothing ever changes. I'm 22...He's 20 going on 21 soon...I think it's time he matures a little, but it seems like this is gonna go on forever.

You are LSE type and he is SLI. SLI are emotional, they don't respond to your logic up front, appeal to their emotions first, then you will see results from their logic.

[thePirate]

You are LSE type and he is SLI.

Please don't bother him with your bullshit.

[Computer Loser]

I have an IEI brother too and I'd say for the most part, IEIs can come off a bit shy but their vibe is like they accept most people and have a 'live and let live' attitude. I guess he's still coming to terms with who he is and needs a bit more confident.

Sometimes you just need them to get involved in something (eg. socialising) to show them that yes, they are able to do it and they actually get quite inspired to change. They just need to get out of that rut, and usually they want that to happen but need someone to help them.

That's so true... One time I advised him to stay away from this girl. He said "okay" but he didn't listen to me, and went on and did his own thing. How did it turn out? Ouch, that's all I have to say- I think he learned, though.

Shakealittle, how does the interaction with your bro feel like? How's the relationship?

My bro wants to be involved with film, so he constantly tells me about his new little ideas he wants to implement. I always tell him, "okay, do it then," but he always ends up doing nothing unless everything is ideal (right actors, right equipment, the best quality, etc.,) It's like he talks way too much and doesn't do enough.

He constantly wants to show me different stuff and gets pissed when I'm lying around and I don't want to do it, lol. Overall, great bro though.

Anyways, thanks for the advice.

[silverchris9]

It helps to know that its ok to be a douche, like its ok to fuck up. People telling me to relax and go fuck up and have fun help; but also people making fun of each other and ME lightheartedly in a group helps me open up and not take things so seriously

This.

I know in my case, I am hyper-conscious of others' feelings and feelings towards me, etc. So I sort of have to act like a douche for a while to learn that it's okay to hurt people's feelings sometimes. I think it's a phase that many people, perhaps ethical types and IEIs in particular, tend to go through. Just make sure he doesn't go too far, like causing irreparable harm to someone, or if he does, point it out and don't let up, and then he'll probably come around eventually.

Also, much like IEIs tend to reduce people to their intentions, and then invalidate a whole action or person on the basis of one or two impure/imperfect intentions, IEIs can also take social systems/customs/interactions and similarly question their value at a fundamental levels. I know I do that. It has to do with the whole Ni-and-symbols thing. Like, Ni says, "what does this social custom mean?" And then when you realize that actually, it doesn't mean anything, you think that's license to just ignore it. But really, other people's feelings ARE important, and the custom has some degree of value, even if it's derived value, even if it isn't inherent value, purely because someone believes in it, and believes in it strongly.

I've been doubtful too about this, because he can be a total clown and lighten the family up on one side. My mom says our family would be so boring without him around, which I tend to agree with. But on the other end, he can be the complete opposite...I dunno. Meh.

IEI. This is me. lol.

As far as the road trips, ahhh! that must suck. Seems to be a common trait among IEIs to complain excessively. Introducing him to some philosophy and self improvement principles/books/programs may help tremendously. It has a lot of useful mindset shifts that would help him have a better outlook if implemented properly. If hes an IEI, he would probably be into that sort of thing.

Agreed with this. Often, IEIs (much like SLEs) need something to really believe in in order to influence their behavior positively. Sentimental education and all that.

I think you should sit him down and calmly deliver the message that you are displeased... with your fists.

I mean if he's anything like me then the one thing that he understands is getting hit in the face. Shit hurts.

Also this.

I mean, not literally, but you know, on an archetypal level, IEIs (betas in general, but beta irrationals in particular) see life very much from the perspective of how it boils down to force. According to my interpretation of quadra progression, most social customs (insofar as they are "codes" of behavior that people don't naturally fall into of their own choice or of their response to other people's behavior/emotions) are instituted by force. And besides that, IEIs, being super sensitive to Se, really notice how most everything we do, we do because someone is really making us do it. So you know, sometimes it's more comfortable for an IEI (paradoxically), if someone sits down and says, "If you don't get out there and spend thirty fucking seconds saying hi to your fucking grandma at church, I will take you outside and I will kick your ass so hard..." (okay maybe not that but you get the idea). Sort of ditto for the talking to adults "respectfully" thing, although I'm pretty sure that's more of an individual person thing than an IEI thing (although I have done the same thing.)

[jughead]

He sounds like a normal IEI to me, Fe as a strong function means he has no trouble seeing the dynamics of ethics and thus he will violate social norms (Fi) that are just guideline rules for people to follow.
Jxrtes posted a decent guide on ethics recently, Fe types are often see as black sheep because they don't follow ethical norms and have no trouble dismising them.
Your brother sounds like a normal IEI. Confirm your own type:Te/Fi valuers will think less of a Fe type than a Ti would.
Compare to Eminem

YouTube - Eminem - Rainman
"You find me offensive, I find you offensive for finding me offensive."

Just like Te types do with Ti I believe.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Computer Loser]

Thanks for all the responses everyone...Really insightful and good advice.

I'm gonna try talking to him more...