WTF

[reclaimpower]

Okay, I'm not LII.

1. I realized I do not have polr
> The users on this forum do nothing I dislike whatsoever. I rather like their posts.
> Maritsa moans about but every bit that offends her, I would find mildly to very amusing instead. Many people say that she is not EII, that doesn't matter, the point is she points out and I am drawn to it rather than repulsed.
> I like music that use heavy language. Usually metal and industrial. Examples of some of the bands I like are: Otep, Lamb of God, Android Lust, Skinny Puppy, :Wumpscut:
> I like people who proclaim their individual power, and defy the powers that be. Mainly, I just like power and see life as a struggle to obtain it. I do not like being told what to do though, so that may disqualify that.
> My ringtone is a woman screaming "Sex! Sex! Sex! Mutilation!"
> I have no issue with people who use brute force or sex to gain something. I am actually impressed by it. Though to be fair that may be disqualified considering that I do not like men who see women as material objects meant to be dominated, utilizing sex as a means to rape someone's will. I am actually rather asexual to be honest.
> I am not offended by violent things. I acutally want to be the guy who kicks ass. I want to be King Leonidas and scream, THIS IS SPARTA! Then kick Britney Spears down a big black hole. I want to be the god standing in the scorched ruins of a battle field, surrounded by dead bodies and agonized screams while my few remaining enemies kneel before me confessing that I am their master as I prepare to cleave their heads off. Then again, this may just be a guy thing ...

2. I don't care about truth. I care about things making some sense, but I don't believe in truth. Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself. I think this philosophy would upset many LIIs and if I were to say it in the Alpha Quadra, I would be crucified. I may not be safe saying it here.

3. I don't know if I am dominant, but I realized I respond to it more than I thought before. Most of the music I listen to holds strong value too. Examples: Android Lust and VNV Nation. I relate to the frame of mind their music portrays more than any other.

4. I have a twitter account (I laugh at myself for this, so you can too) I realized most of my musings focused on time, cycles, patterns and cause and effect. I also always seem to go into stupid emo rants about humanity being a splinter of existence and that it's all pointless bullshit that won't leave a significant mark throughout eternity. IEI's seem to be the only ones to bitch like this... no offense. But this may be an adaptation, as many of my friends are ego for sure. Whether or not I am, I have no idea.

If I am not ILI or IEI, I am considering LSI, but do not think I am organized enough or concerned enough about reality, it'd be more likely I am drawn to either or than having it in my ego. I am writing this to get at least suggestions toward an effective way to analyze myself. So what do y'all think?

[717495]

Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself.

Perfect.

[Crispy]

Yeah a lot of that sounded ILI.

[Krig the Viking]

2. I don't care about truth. I care about things making some sense, but I don't believe in truth. Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself. I think this philosophy would upset many LIIs and if I were to say it in the Alpha Quadra, I would be crucified. I may not be safe saying it here.

*Crucifies reclaimpower*

As an LII, I found that almost painful to read.

[reclaimpower]

Okay, cool. I'll go with ILI then, at least until someone makes a good argument otherwise. Besides, the Gamma Quadra seems to be dying. Or dead. Or undead. Whatever. It needs more people.

Thanks for your input.

As an LII, I found that almost painful to read.

Well... considering that you just crucified me.... good

[crazedrat]

I don't think you are ILI - ILIs are dull and boring, and you are inflammatory. ILIs are masters of stating the obvious in the most boring language possible. The best comparison for an ILI is a blue donkey like the one on whiney the pooh. LSI is a better guess.

[Aiss]

You sure change your style often. *off to listen to Android Lust*

[crazedrat]

get out, blue donkey

[Jarno]

Yup. Down to the writing style.

that was I thinking too.

[krieger]

2. I don't care about truth. I care about things making some sense, but I don't believe in truth. Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself. I think this philosophy would upset many LIIs and if I were to say it in the Alpha Quadra, I would be crucified. I may not be safe saying it here.

The only forum member that would litterally crucify you for saying that is Phaedrus, who claimed to be INTp.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Krig the Viking]

How ridiculous! You took your role too seriously and try to act accordingly, just you're not authentic but a contemptible fake. IMO nothing in what you ever wrote points out even in the slightest at you defending an absolute truth.

You're a funny man, Pinocchio.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[reclaimpower]

I don't think you are ILI - ILIs are dull and boring, and you are inflammatory. ILIs are masters of stating the obvious in the most boring language possible. The best comparison for an ILI is a blue donkey like the one on whiney the pooh. LSI is a better guess.

Maybe. I don't know what you mean by inflammatory so I can't really agree or disagree. If I get the equipment and find the time I might eventually post a video someday. That'd be a better way to observe my behavior I suppose. So, for now, I am either a blue donkey, or a conservative rightwing jackass.

Note: the above was a terrible stereotype joke. I don't really think of LSIs that way, and I may end up being one for all I know.

You sure change your style often.

I like variety.

*off to listen to Android Lust*

Excellent

Down to the writing style.

Well... my writing style changes. A lot. Or so I'm told. I had an english professor accuse me of plagiarizing because each paper I handed in seemed to have been written so differently, that it had to be different people in his mind. I was only able to prove that I did indeed write the papers by verbally going into detail the ideas I expressed in them without looking at the papers. So my writing may more be centered on my frame of mind, than my actual personality. I don't know if my writing style could really indicate my type.

So this all leads me to the ultimate conclusion: I cannot come to a conclusion about my type. Thus, I create the 17th type. GOD.

[Aiss]

Well... my writing style changes. A lot. Or so I'm told. I had an english professor accuse me of plagiarizing because each paper I handed in seemed to have been written so differently, that it had to be different people in his mind. I was only able to prove that I did indeed write the papers by verbally going into detail the ideas I expressed in them without looking at the papers. So my writing may more be centered on my frame of mind, than my actual personality. I don't know if my writing style could really indicate my type.

Same happens with mine, down to handwriting changing depending on mood or something. I've been told it's going to stabilize; it never did.

This poses a problem with typing based on writing style, which is basically the only typing done on this forum, though.

So this all leads me to the ultimate conclusion: I cannot come to a conclusion about my type. Thus, I create the 17th type. GOD.

It's hardly the first time you mention being untypeable. Beware, you might end up IEI if it continues.

[reclaimpower]

Same happens with mine, down to handwriting changing depending on mood or something. I've been told it's going to stabilize; it never did.

This poses a problem with typing based on writing style, which is basically the only typing done on this forum, though.

I guess that might be where videos and v.i. might become useful. Although I am still skeptical towards v.i. so I doubt I'm going to be posting my picture up anytime soon.

It's hardly the first time you mention being untypeable. Beware, you might end up IEI if it continues.

I better refrain then. I'm typeable. Totally and completely typeable. The most typeable Joe that could ever be typed. Yeah.

[MatthewZ]

2. I don't care about truth. I care about things making some sense, but I don't believe in truth. Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself. I think this philosophy would upset many LIIs and if I were to say it in the Alpha Quadra, I would be crucified. I may not be safe saying it here.

We're not going to crucify you for not believing in truth. We're going to crucify you for passing yourself off as an LII for so long while still holding this belief. You were not worthy of being an LII, and for that you must pay.

[reclaimpower]

[krieger]

I bet there are quite a few INTjs among the more truth-relativistic of the prominent philosophers of the last few decades. Such a thing is far from unheard of.

Phaedrus was always fanatically convinced of it that all IxTj types have very pragmatic, utilitarian views on the notion of truth, drawing evidence from the fact that Jung described Ti as "subjective thinking" and the fact that the Reinin dichtomies equate Ti with "subjectivism".

[reclaimpower]

Does this mean I don't have to be crucified?

[The Exception]

The same thing and Te thing and you insist that you're using Ti. Then note that you began to advertise this "truth or death" only since you acknowledged that this is an Alpha NT trait. Not only this, but you try to prove you're an LII with every occasion by agreeing with what most people believe, without bringing something from you.

If Krig's not LII I'll eat my shirt. He's probably the most obviously LII person here on the forum.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[The Exception]

How can you justify that? Because, like you said previously, you don't kinda relate to the other LIIs? That is the problem of both of you.

I hope the real LIIs will take attitude against your subversive attempts to revise the characteristic of this type on the forum.

I relate well to several of the LIIs on the forum, not just Krig! (I think Krig would say the same thing). Also relate to MatthewZ, Brilliand, Crispy, Logos, Carla (when she was still here), RSV3, Jason, and probably several others I can't think of right this second. I think all these people are real LIIs. LIIs come in different varieties and there is still alot of variation even among people of the same sociotype. Subtype is an important factor. I tend to relate best to either harmonizing subtypes like myself or creative subtypes (dual subtype for harmonizing). But its more than just subtype. Millions of people will share both your type and subtype. Its unrealistic to think they're all going to be just like you. There's other factors like environment, cultural upbringing, different interests, dual types (if you believe in that), whether the person's psychologically healthy or not, etc, etc.

When I said Krig was obviously LII, I'm going by his posting style and our conversations via PM. Its consistent with model A for LIIs.

There's a few LIIs I don't relate to as well like JohnDo but I'm not challenging his self-typing either. I actually find a lott of his posts interesting, but he's rather dogmatic. TCaudillg, also has interesting ideas, some are rather out there. Our posting styles are obviously different but I'm not challenging his type either. I actually relate to him quite well as a person.

I don't relate as well to Labcoat. I've found his posting style rather cryptic and lately he's come across as overly stubborn. However, I don't see a good reason to not think he's LII although I would think LSI is possible.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Krig the Viking]

Sorry for continuing Pinocchio's thread derailment, reclaimpower, but I feel obligated to respond.

Note that previously you used to have a relativistic view on this matter.
2009:

Hey, I welcome random interjections! The more perspectives involved, the more information available; the more information available, the better chance of arriving at the truth!

2010:

We really have no objective way of being certain that the signals received from our sensory inputs are accurate. That's why I tend to express truth statements in terms of percentages of probability. I can't be 100% certain that the evidence about the world I have gathered through my sensory inputs is accurate, but I can be 99.9% certain, based on things like internal logical consistency of the evidence, etc.

The same thing and Te thing and you insist that you're using Ti. Then note that you began to advertise this "truth or death" only since you acknowledged that this is an Alpha NT trait.

Riiiight. Two posts in which I talk about how difficult it is to ascertain absolute truth prove that I don't believe absolute truth exists. I suppose if I said something like "The more hunters involved, the better chance of finding a deer!" you would claim that I don't believe deer exist.

Not only this, but you try to prove you're an LII with every occasion by agreeing with what most people believe, without bringing something from you. If more "official" LIIs and ESEs on the forum (especially your idols, warrior-librarian, labcoat, Logos) would "precisely and succinctly" say that LIIs eat shit, you'll agree as well, I assume, especially because you're an "light-hearted and fun Alpha" .

Newsflash, Pinocchio: you suck at guessing people's intentions. Like, a lot. I post my agreement with things other LIIs say not out of some weird desire prove my LII-ness, but because (qu'elle surprise!) I actually agree with them. I act fun and light-hearted because, guess what, I enjoy being fun and light-hearted. Stop projecting your own twisted manipulative impulses onto me.

Interesting how you, an "uncompromising truth defender" support etiquette - aka respect people's self typing and don't call names.

Funny thing about that -- I find that if one is polite and respectful of others, they will open up to you and share information they might not have shared otherwise. They may even help you sift through the evidence to arrive at a logical conclusion. Calling people names just puts them on the defensive, and turns what might have been a productive collaborative discussion into a contest of wills. Victory becomes the most important goal, and the pursuit of truth sinks to second place.

Winning the debate doesn't prove your argument is correct; it just proves you're the better debater.

My question is, did you retyped so far someone on this forum, as long as you know clearly what's type related and "peculiar"? Or do you agree with anyone's typing? Or do you respect the etiquette like you said?

It's possible to politely disagree with someone's self-typing without a breach of etiquette. I think Brian (Gulanzon) is probably IEE, for example. But I don't insult his integrity and constantly accuse him of waging a campaign of disinformation. For the most part, however, I refrain from questioning people's self-typings because either

a) I agree with their self-typing.

or

b) I have no solid evidence outside of a vague feeling, and no interest in wasting time finding the evidence. As much as I would like to learn the truth about everything, I only have a limited amount of time in a day, and I usually have more interesting things to do. Believe it or not, there are aspects of socionics I find more interesting than squabbling with strangers on a message board.

Btw, it smelled like pee when Gilly confronted you.

Really? You smelled pee when you read a post on the Internet? That doesn't sound normal. You should definitely figure out what's causing that.

What about when those who value peace are not on the same side with those who value truth?

Are you calling me a liar?

[reclaimpower]

Sorry for continuing Pinocchio's thread derailment, reclaimpower, but I feel obligated to respond.

Lol no worries. I'm pretty much decided on ILI, so I'm done. All of you derail away. But gently mind you or I might start selling tickets.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Marie84]

Are you sure it's the you disagree with Maritsa on? I find that she confuses with , the latter she reacts unpleasantly to

But from the rest of your post I'd be inclined to think Ni/Se for you is most probable; LSI seems unlikely especially since what you stated in number 2

If Krig's not LII I'll eat my shirt. He's probably the most obviously LII person here on the forum.

[Blaze]

*Crucifies reclaimpower*

As an LII, I found that almost painful to read.

me too.

[Blaze]

I don't think you are ILI - ILIs are dull and boring, and you are inflammatory. ILIs are masters of stating the obvious in the most boring language possible. The best comparison for an ILI is a blue donkey like the one on whiney the pooh. LSI is a better guess.

lol, so true

[redbaron]

Eeyore, people. The blue donkey has a name.

[Krig the Viking]

That prove that you don't believe in discerning the absolute truth despite overwhelming opposing odds, or opinions. This is the problem, you validate through statistics, well actually not your approach is wrong, but the fact that you say that that's Ti and claim that you're on the same barricade with Alpha NTs - defend what you know to be correct no matter of what statistics show, because you were convinced by other means, and the mistake can be in the statistics themselves - or simply a yet undiscovered "anomaly" aka law of nature.

Due to your difficulties with the English language, I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue here. That LIIs don't use statistics, or something? Or that LIIs are never uncertain, and don't use percentages and probabilities to describe uncertainty? My uncertainty is actually related more to my Creative Ne than my Ti -- I can too easily see alternative possibilities to my positions, and until I can positively rule them out, I can't entirely discount them. Sometimes it's impossible to entirely rule out alternative possibilities, and in that case, the only way the situation can be rationally expressed is by probabilities.

Words... your words against the evidence.

No, it's my words against your mistaken interpretations of the evidence.

Why why is mandatory that people change one's opinions to arrive to the truth? Can't one make his own opinion, are we disabled when required to think by ourselves?
This doesn't solve the issue, you avoid to say what happens when someone is actually mistyped, your solutions seem to be that one should either agree with people self-typings or keep that for himself.

Are you always 100% correct in every position you hold? After you've come to a conclusion, do you never uncover evidence that proves you were wrong? The fact of the matter is that no-one is 100% correct in their opinions and conclusions about the world (least of all you), and by rationally and unemotionally examining the evidence, we can find the areas where our opinions are incorrect and correct them. It's a constant process of refinement.

This is also related to the Holographic cognitive style. LIIs, IEEs, ESIs, and SLEs tend to make tenative conclusions which they hold loosely, and then re-examine all the evidence to see if it fits with their conclusion. This is the opposite of the Cause-Effect cognitive style, in which ILEs, LSIs, SEEs, and EIIs start with the evidence, and then step by step work their way through a chain of cause-and-effect until they arrive at a strong conclusion, which they then will defend and are unlikely to change. This is the root of many of our disagreements, Pinocchio. I am a Holographic thinker, and you a Cause-Effect thinker, so the way I think seems vague and too uncertain to you, and the way you think seems inflexible and overly certain to me.

"What about when those who value peace are not on the same side with those who value truth?" - that means exactly what you avoid to answer: what do you do in the situations when other people are mistyped or mistype others or make wrong explanations about functions and whatever - cause we talk about Socionics. If you don't want to call names, send me a private message with that big list of mistyped people, in your opinion - let's see do you actually have an opinion? Or miraculously all the people understand this trivial "Socionics" recipe and they are correctly self-typed, do you think this is possible?

Like I said, I don't have an opinion on the self-typings of most of the people on this board. Unless I've interacted with them extensively, or I've become interested in them for some specific reason, I have little to no interest in other people's self-typings. This is compounded by the fact that determining someone's sociotype using only text-based communications on an Internet forum, without the benefit of audio or visual cues, is difficult and extremely time-consuming. The only reason you're able to do it so easily and quickly is that you come to a conclusion too soon, and then reject or re-interperet all evidence that doesn't agree with your conclusion. People who are actually interested in the truth, and not just winning the argument, take much longer to arrive at a conclusion, because they don't just reject contradictory evidence, but instead try to understand it.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[reclaimpower]

Are you sure it's the you disagree with Maritsa on? I find that she confuses with , the latter she reacts unpleasantly to

Lol, no. I'm still fuzzy on functions. I don't really know a good place to learn how they work. I tried learning here, but there's so much disagreement, I just end up annoyed and frustrated. Mostly, just look at every single complaint she makes about "bad people", or bullying or whatever and I don't see anything to complain about. Really, if I had to have a conversation following her criteria on what should be censored or is bad, you might as well cut off my legs and ask me to walk. Even her complaints towards how people address her, and when someone asks a direct valid question it becomes bullying, and I really don't think I could address her in my normal behavior without somehow accidently pissing on her feelings or values. I could when I first got here, but I was kind of on my "best behavior" I guess you could say, and definitely could not maintain that forever. This isn't a personal issue with her though, my main point is that I simply am not offended with anything that offends her, and really if I were to try to talk to her normally, I'd somehow seem a "bully" to her, so I won't try.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Marie84]

Lol, no. I'm still fuzzy on functions. I don't really know a good place to learn how they work. I tried learning here, but there's so much disagreement, I just end up annoyed and frustrated.

It's probably better to do your own research, anyways. At least than it's less bias...

Here's a few links that explain the IE's:

English
Socionics :: Information Elements
Information elements - Wikisocion
Intuition - WSWiki
Notes on "The Socion, or Socionics Basics" -- pg. 2

English translation of Russian
Socionics.org
Aspects

Mostly, just look at every single complaint she makes about "bad people", or bullying or whatever and I don't see anything to complain about. Really, if I had to have a conversation following her criteria on what should be censored or is bad, you might as well cut off my legs and ask me to walk. Even her complaints towards how people address her, and when someone asks a direct valid question it becomes bullying, and I really don't think I could address her in my normal behavior without somehow accidently pissing on her feelings or values. I could when I first got here, but I was kind of on my "best behavior" I guess you could say, and definitely could not maintain that forever. This isn't a personal issue with her though, my main point is that I simply am not offended with anything that offends her, and really if I were to try to talk to her normally, I'd somehow seem a "bully" to her, so I won't try.

Yep, that's what I mean when I say she becomes defensive when Te is used against her; she attributes this to Se (which I obviously disagree with). On the otherhand, she doesn't react negatively to hostile and commanding language, which she sees as characteristic of Te+Si (I see it as Se).
For instance, I don't think you have to be fluent in Socionics to know that Minde is not one to use Se here, whereas Marista believes her to be an SEE.

But yah, a lot of what your saying may indicate Te+Se valuing, at least that's how I see it it

[silverchris9]

2. I don't care about truth. I care about things making some sense, but I don't believe in truth. Truth exists only so far as the mind can lie to itself. I think this philosophy would upset many LIIs and if I were to say it in the Alpha Quadra, I would be crucified. I may not be safe saying it here.

lol. But it is sorta true. I mean, there is truth, but it's hard to access with your mind, and until you understand everything, you don't understand anything (perfectly), because all knowledge "hangs together," you know? (right, you don't.)

Anyway, like Nietzche says, truth is a metaphor people have forgotten is a metaphor. I agree with that.

Happy not being LII! LIIs are cool, but tbh their dual gets kinda annoying at times. Go with SEEs or (better yet) SLEs over ESEs any day.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Krig the Viking]

The perfect example about what you stated previously, that it's not the same thing to be right with to win a debate.

You failed to addressed them, remember? Denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The answer is I'm not 100% sure all the time and I changed my mind often, when I realized how things truly are, unlike you. Minimisation (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What I'm sure is that you're not an LII abut an ILI and no, it's has no connection with other typings of mine.

*Sigh*. Sometimes I think that banging my head against a brick wall would be less painful and more productive than talking to you, Pinocchio.

It would be alright to be like this, the problem is that you don't fit with LII for other reasons (those numerous and obvious ones), I don't even know if this Holographic/Cause-Effect is reliable in typing. What kind of thinking ILIs have, btw?
So that is, you found this little quirk, but because of it and other fantasies you forgot what's the differences between Ti and Te, then between LII and ILI. Try to use less "holograms" in typing Gambler's fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

ILI is Dialectical-Algorithmic, the same as your dual, Pinocchio (EIE, SEI, ILI, and LSE). I'm quite certain we would be able to communicate better if I was one of those types. Link is here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...g-gulenko.html

I'm not sure what relevance the Gambler's fallacy has here.

Also, the only person I would be less likely to take typing advice from than you would be Maritsa. Actually, it might even be a tie.

So how comes that you're good at typing while the only one you typed is you, and probably Brian? Btw, this is an even more grave mistake, to think that he's an IEE, especially because it defies your stated relationship methods - he's not getting along especially well with Deltas, or something - apart from Huggin, who I think to be an EII.

That being said, don't try to type everyone just because you don't fit in. You took on the easiest pray for now dirty scoundrel, Brian, because:
1. He's an ESE (even SEI) - and this stands in your way of being an "official" LII
2. He was criticized as unreliable, moody, changeable, the perfect occasion to get rid of an annoyance.

Dude, wake up, he is typed by almost anyone on this forum as an Alpha SF, your incompatibility will put you down, not him (as far as I can tell you're already deep in misery for being so self-deceived). Who will be your next target?

I have a whole list of hundreds of people I've typed, but they're mostly celebrities or people I know in person. Like I said, typing people based solely on text is difficult and time-consuming.

Also, I think it's hilarious that you of all people are telling me that I should accept the consensus of what everybody else agrees is true. Why don't you hold yourself to the same standard and accept that I'm LII?

Furthermore, your libelous accusations of my reasons for typing Brian as IEE are laughably false. You really are utterly incompetent at guessing people's motivations and intentions.

As further discussion of this subject with you is likely to prove as futile as past discussion has, I think it's probably better that I stop, before I lose my temper entirely and make as big a fool of myself as you have made of yourself.

[silverchris9]

YEEEESSSSSSSS!!!! WE HAVE A WINNEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK AT THAT LADIES AND GENTLEMAN.

THIS WILL BE PLAGARIZED, HENCEFORTH, AND ADDED TO OUR OFFICIAL TYPE FIELD GUIDE.









:dons off Captain Obvious get up:

^ILI making fun of Fe.