Let's discuss this: NeFi, FiNe, etc

[thePirate]

WITH MY DICK

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[consentingadult]

Only if it suits/serves your needs to see me that way. Then you can pose the same argument for you; you don't see me but you see yourself.

Oh, I'm perfectly aware I can be aggressive or angry at times, I don't deny that such traits are part of my psychological make up, together with a gazillion other traits, some of which I apply appropriately and sometimes inappropriately. Like any sane person has and does. You, however, claim to be a perfect EII Holy Virgin who has no such feelings, no, you only have loving and warm feelings or other people. For th average psychologist, this alone is 'evidence' for a very hostile personality.

[Beautiful sky]

Oh, I'm perfectly aware I can be aggressive or angry at times, I don't deny that such traits are part of my psychological make up, together with a gazillion other traits, some of which I apply appropriately and sometimes inappropriately. Like any sane person has and does. You, however, claim to be a perfect EII Holy Virgin who has no such feelings, no, you only have loving and warm feelings or other people. For th average psychologist, this alone is 'evidence' for a very hostile personality.

Volitile and emotionally sensitive not hostile. Perhapse you like to define words before you make even more unfounded assumptions.

Never have I said that I am perfect in any sense or that I don't have qualities that I would rather have. And where exactly did I say I was a virgin?

@Pirate
I had two serious long lasting relationships
And three or so short ones.
None were black and if he was then that would have made no difference in how I felt for the individual.

[thePirate]

I bet maritsas been fucked by a black guy

[consentingadult]

Now it's my turn to say that there are some people that are worthless to talk to - I very-very rarely say this, but Maritsa is such an exception. I'd not waste any more time if I was you.
---

Btw, I'm interested in your opinion, do you think that she can be an IEE?

Don't worry about my interactions with Maritsa. There is a purpose to everything :wink:

As to her being IEE, thatś always a possibility, but in that case we must consider her having some strong sort of pathology, because her style of reasoning is totally different to what I consider IEE style reasoning, such as we see in Mariella or Rick DeLong.

Going by her pictures, she could be a leading Fi type, but I think her behavior looks like Ti-mobilizing. This, of course, is a contradiction in terms, and I think there is something else wrong with her. Could be anything: mood disorder, schyzotypy or schizofrenia, personality disorder, whatever.

[consentingadult]

Volitile and emotionally sensitive not hostile. Perhapse you like to define words before you make even more unfounded assumptions.

Never have I said that I am perfect in any sense or that I don't have qualities that I would rather have. And where exactly did I say I was a virgin?

1. I choose my own words as I see fit: you have a suppressed hostility and agrssion in you.
2. Yes, you did strongly make implications on various occasions on your virtuousness
3. I never said you were a virgin, but that you present yourself as if you were the Holy Virgin. Read more carefully!

[Beautiful sky]

Don't worry about my interactions with Maritsa. There is a purpose to everything :wink:

As to her being IEE, thatś always a possibility, but in that case we must consider her having some strong sort of pathology, because her style of reasoning is totally different to what I consider IEE style reasoning, such as we see in Mariella or Rick DeLong.

Going by her pictures, she could be a leading Fi type, but I think her behavior looks like Ti-mobilizing. This, of course, is a contradiction in terms, and I think there is something else wrong with her. Could be anything: mood disorder, schyzotypy or schizofrenia, personality disorder, whatever.

If you had any sense between your ears you could see the above as Se PoLR with Fi leading, then that would be EII...huh who knew? Do you know that just about every SEE has told me that they think I have a disorder? maybe you are Ti Polr.]

1. I choose my own words as I see fit: you have a suppressed hostility and agrssion in you.
2. Yes, you did strongly make implications on various occasions on your virtuousness
3. I never said you were a virgin, but that you present yourself as if you were the Holy Virgin. Read more carefully!

I know what my dual would tell me right now. It's that you are illogical, irrational human being and that I should not communicate with you any longer, so goodbye. You're not worth it.

You can't communicate intelligently on a topic; you just chose this moment to fire at me; what a waste of a good Se ego.

[consentingadult]

If you had any sense between your ears you could see the above as Se PoLR with Fi leading, then that would be EII...huh who knew?

I have a lot of sense between my ears thank you! You could very well be EII, but how significant is it to be a certain type when you have rigid personality traits that are so strong, that type no longer plays a significant part in the total of your personality and behaviors? How important is type if you suffer from strong bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness?

[consentingadult]

what a waste of a good Se ego.

Ah, now I'm SEE again? Wow!

[Beautiful sky]

I have a lot of sense between my ears thank you! You could very well be EII, but how significant is it to be a certain type when you have rigid personality traits that are so strong, that type no longer plays a significant part in the total of your personality and behaviors? How important is type if you suffer from strong bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness?

Most EII are aflicted by deep depressions, it comes with dealing with individuals like you, who assume, accuse and blame unfoundedly.

[consentingadult]

Most EII are aflicted by deep depressions, it comes with dealing with individuals like you, who assume, accuse and blame unfoundedly.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: no other person can hurt you emotionally. If you get depressed (and I have had a history of three years of depression), itis because reality clashes with your assumptions and expetations. But reality isn't wrong in that case, your assumptions and expectations are. Depression can have many causes, but you might consider the option that depression in your case is caused by you fighting reality.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[thePirate]

a really hung one too

[consentingadult]

Yeah, she's definitely far of something someone could call "reasonable", but these people have a type as well. Indeed it's hard to tell types apart mirror types, when the most visible aspects are the common ones.
If we need to tell apart EII from IEE, IEE is the one who feels the compulsion to "tell" others and communicate this to them.

You have a good point there

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah, she's definitely far of something someone could call "reasonable", but these people have a type as well. Indeed it's hard to tell types apart mirror types, when the most visible aspects are the common ones.
If we need to tell apart EII from IEE, IEE is the one who feels the compulsion to "tell" others and communicate this to them.

Mariella is IEE; and you Pinocchio need to look at more info and learn socionics before you type people, thanks. If you are challenging this then you are also challenging her type...

[consentingadult]

Mariella is IEE; and you Pinocchio need to look at more info and learn socionics before you type people, thanks. If you are challenging this then you are also challenging her type...

Even if Pinocchio were bad at typing, I think it's his full right to make errors while he's learning the system. I can tell that he's doing his honest best and is open to information.

[Slacker]

Maritsa is one of the absolute worst typers in the16types history, behind only maybe dio. I'm trying to think of some other historically bad typers. Anyway, you're in no position to cast stones, Maritsa.

[Creepy-cinq]

IEE is the one who feels the compulsion to "tell" others and communicate this to them.

IEE is worth considering, perhaps IEE-Ne subtype.

[consentingadult]

Maritsa is one of the absolute worst typers in the16types history, behind only maybe dio. I'm trying to think of some other historically bad typers. Anyway, you're in no position to cast stones, Maritsa.

Ah Dio! I hope he's doing well.

[Slacker]

Ah Dio! I hope he's doing well.

Yes, dio was nice to have around, regardless of the typing issue.

[Beautiful sky]

Even if Pinocchio were bad at typing, I think it's his full right to make errors while he's learning the system. I can tell that he's doing his honest best and is open to information.

I don't defend people; I tell the truth. Period. Defending is fluff psychology and I don't do that BS.

[consentingadult]

I don't defend people; I tell the truth. Period.

Remember, it's never to late to ask God to forgive your sins!

[thePirate]

WHY DID U CHANGE YOUR AVATAR BACK

THIS ONE DOES NOT FLATTER YOU HONEY

[Slacker]

I don't defend people; I tell the truth. Period. Defending is fluff psychology and I don't do that BS.

First, you've been talking about people defending people over and over and over again. Now it's fluff psychology and BS?

Second, you tell WHAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE TRUTH. Not the truth.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Beautiful sky]

WHY DID U CHANGE YOUR AVATAR BACK

THIS ONE DOES NOT FLATTER YOU HONEY

This is better?

[Timeless]

This is better?

I actually like it.

[Creepy-cinq]

Maybe, dunno. I don't have yet an opinion on what subtype is which, I use to call Fi this more "extroverted" one, because it uses to be much more judgmental with people and things like this, you know? I know some of these in real life, they talk about virtues, family values, justice, and are aggressive in imposing them to others. So this is why I rather call this subtype is the Fi one, the other is interested more in fantasy, games, literature, or whatever - that one is more rebellious and adventurous, but much less judgmental and definitely less interested in properties, for example estate properties.

Yes, true. I know what you mean, and I've met a few as well. And, this subtyping would help explain the difference between Maritsa and other IEEs, on this board. It would certainly help to explain a few other things I've thought about too. I'll weigh this against my original base typing for her.

[Slacker]

Maybe, dunno. I don't have yet an opinion on what subtype is which, I use to call Fi this more "extroverted" one, because it uses to be much more judgmental with people and things like this, you know? I know some of these in real life, they talk about virtues, family values, justice, and are aggressive in imposing them to others. So this is why I rather call this subtype is the Fi one, the other is interested more in fantasy, games, literature, or whatever - that one is more rebellious and adventurous, but much less judgmental and definitely less interested in properties, for example estate properties.

According to this, I'd be an Ne subtype, but most people who are into subtypes call me an Fi subtype. Not saying they're right and you're wrong or anything really, as I'm not sure where I stand on the whole subtype issue in the first place. Just saying that I would be Ne subtype based on that.

[Slacker]

Another possibility that I almost hate to throw out as Maritsa will jump on it, is that what you call "Ne subtype" is IEE, and what you call "Fi subtype" is EII.

[thePirate]

This is better?

yes

[Beautiful sky]

Another possibility that I almost hate to throw out as Maritsa will jump on it, is that what you call "Ne subtype" is IEE, and what you call "Fi subtype" is EII.

I don't believe in subtypes,

[Creepy-cinq]

Another possibility that I almost hate to throw out as Maritsa will jump on it, is that what you call "Ne subtype" is IEE, and what you call "Fi subtype" is EII.

The nuance, I think is exactly how Pinocchio explains it - "IEE is the one who feels the compulsion to "tell" others and communicate this to them". It's more irrational energy, IMO, I don't think an EII (even the EII-Ne subtype) would have that same level of compulsion. That is why there is such a contrast with Maritsa and the EIIs. The energy level is very different, if thought of in terms of temperament.

[Slacker]

It sounds like maybe you're saying that EIIs and IEEs have more in common than the two subtypes of IEE? It seems like an IEE of one subtype would be moer similar to an IEE of another subtype than either would be to an EII. I'm just a bit skeptical of the whole thing. Or not on board completely maybe. I don't know, maybe I need to just think about it longer.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[GallopingQwerty]

I'm just a bit skeptical of the whole thing. Or not on board completely maybe. I don't know, maybe I need to just think about it longer.

I don't even really know Maritsa, but even having been here less than a week I can tell you she's not an IEE.

Sure she's vocal, and there's definitely an element of Telling there, but she's also mostly (seemingly) interested in imposing her view of the world/conversation/situation as the only possible correct one. If someone says something that does not agree with this view, it is waived away as unimportant, not real, not true, or something to be changed through persuasion: this is not IEE either. IEE tends to want to discuss things, posit theories, ask questions, hear other points of view even if they personally disagree.

Just being really vocal in writing doesn't make someone an IEE... and Pinocchio, just being someone you don't personally like much doesn't make them an IEE either.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Mattie]

Um, I skipped the majority of the thread since it's kinda off topic...

I guess the easiest way for all of us to understand what this really is getting at is to break down the variables we all can agree on. We can agree (using the annotation of NeFi and FiNe that I use, I guess other people caught on) that NeFi is defined by the leading position + defined by the creative position, and the opposite for FiNe.

Looking at the leading functions as starting points, NeFi start out observing the possible states of objects while FiNe start out reflecting on the qualities that make up the relationship between objects. NeFi start by generating multiple ideas while FiNe start with a set of already established data. Both of these are innate, so it isn't a process that either type tries at, it is an apparent view to view the world.

Then the NeFi discerns which possibilities are useful through , applying their established system to eliminate possibilities that aren't applicable. So while NeFi are known for exploring lots of possibilities, they keep their brain from exploding by not keeping on file EVERY possibility, as that's just too much. One can see this behavior in SiTe, who feel overwhelmed by all the possible states they are observing that they feel stuck in a rut because they don't have a natural process of trimming down these possibilities. But after the information goes through the sifter, it stays around until it no longer becomes applicable, and therefore an NeFi can still wield multiple possibilities. FiNe, on the other hand, look for possible states in an object through their already established criteria. If they get an overload, so to speak, it is because they haven't gained enough information yet and therefore can be subjected to too much information. They tend to hand out these observations because it comes from an already finely tuned source, the process is in generating the possibilities for FiNe, not finding out which possibilities are useful like NeFi.

I would take a wing at FeNi and NiFe, but I figured I'd let this go up for scrutiny first to see if I'm completely off base or not.

[The Exception]

I can do 75 words per minute, does that make me a good typer?

And who's Dio?