redbaron: EIE or IEI?

[Ezra]

Choose.

[betterthan]

IEI! IEI.

[Beautiful sky]

She VI's like EIE and shows much more Fe and then Ni
She also doesn't dress like IEI, so she had observed...maybe.

[The Exception]

I vote Ni-IEI. She comes across as pretty low key and grounded on this forum. I don't see her exuding as much as some of the other IEIs on here. Hence the Ni subtype.

[Ezra]

She also doesn't dress like IEI, so she had observed...maybe.

What!? IEI dress code? You're kidding me.

[Slacker]

Didn't Martika call RedBaron ESTj at some point? Or am I not remembering right?

[Beautiful sky]

What!? IEI dress code? You're kidding me.

I am not kidding you, they dress eligantly every day.

The reasons why I am supporting Redbaron as EIE instead of IEI because of many factors that I am taking into consideration, after having viewed her post log...Please review the wikisocion leading functions for IEI and EIE...

Where IEI,

"IEIs perceive, process, and produce information concerning trends and patterns [I do not see this at all in her posts, she seems very rational and very loving person, although IEI are also very loving I am sure, but the Fe element in Redbaron really comes through her posts with a lot of displays of compliments and love and attention to other people's posts. She could make a wonderful leader because of her exceptional people skills.] over time most intensively. They constantly and inadvertently make judgments, assessments, and assumptions about relationships based on what they see as recurring trends from past behavior. They tend to understand the underlying dynamics of situations, people, etc., but may not be able to readily verbalize these insights since they are so internal and conceptual.

The temporal world of the IEI is vivid and complex. IEIs are very imaginative people who tend to be more mystical and dreamy, thus possibly annoying -seeking Logical types, who require practical applications for their ideas. Their gentle demeanor does not cast them as particularly rebellious, but their obscure desires are often a far cry from those of the typical person. "

She does not display any of these imaginative processes at all, instead is very much Fe...

"EIEs are naturally animate and passionate and are skilled at generating liveliness and excitement. They believe that people need to be emotionally involved in life, not distant or indifferent to the important things that are happening. EIEs often hold strong views about governance and social custom, though their beliefs stem from the interests of their close emotional relationships. EIEs like to involve people in interaction and create groups based around a shared experience. They tend to try to continually broaden these groups and engage people who seem to be on the sidelines. The individuals who the EIE is spending time with are far more important to the EIE than the event that is actually taking place. EIEs like to make their friends laugh, and employ an over-the-top style of humor. Often the joke is on the EIE, whether or not they know it.

EIEs are one of the most insightful types about the minds and inner workings of people, and as a result are likely to be skilled persuaders. Their sensitivity to the emotional flow around them allows them a relative sense of emotional control of a situation, and they have an uncanny ability to convince others, even without the use of logic. EIEs generally don't use their persuasion tactics for manipulative gain over others (as much of their sense of self-worth comes from impacting people positively), but they've been known to use these tactics negatively in cases where they cannot win approval of their arguments. In many situations, nevertheless, EIEs value equality among social standards and do not mind taking the back seat if others wish to take the lead. EIEs love their friends, and they will do anything to keep them. Time spent alone for the EIE is often spent thinking about how to better interact with close relationships, even when time spent in those relationships is not particularly pleasing. Even when the other individual is hostile, if the EIE judges them to be a friend they will act in a caring fashion and show affection to the other."

Next thing, I would like to talk about PoLR...

IEI have Te PoLR

"IEIs have limited endurance in awareness concerning methods to achieve their purposes without wasting any energy or producing unwanted side effects. This creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. They do not value the importance of this area, and it can lead to painful consequences. "

I don't see Redbaron not being concerned with how to do something, or rather having pain or experiencing pain when being faced with a method of accomplishing her goals.

Taking care of intensely detailed work that is required to reach their goals, like managing finance or being pragmatic in business ventures, will exhaust their sense of concentration and they will find it frustrating as they continually encounter mistakes and things they had forgotten about or inadvertently ignored.

IEIs also hate being told what to do. They dislike having the details of the process--rote facts and statistics--thrown at them, giving more weight to an intuitive understanding of how the events within the process culminate inevitably in a certain result. They will distrust and dislike bossy people, and will avoid people who will assign them routine work like chores. They will even avoid their friends and family when they expect that they will be assigned such work, and do not enjoy fulfilling daily chores.

They dislike rote routine and do not give much attention to what others may view as the practical aspects of life. They may seem oblivious to objective reality, lost in their "dreams." This causes them to periodically lose track of their belongings, making them feel rather inadequate. IEIs will be overly stressed or even counter-productive in an atmosphere where speedy organization and efficiency are forced apon them."


EIE have Si PoLR

"The EIE is more likely to measure the comfortableness of conversation than other more physiological signs. Still, they are quite attuned to the the physical sensations others are experiencing and use the information to raise and lower the emotional conditions that those individuals are experiencing. [I can pull thousands of her posts and situations where with simple words and gestures, she can intensify the experience of a situation by the insertion of the right gesture or facial expression.] In any case however, EIEs are prone to making errors in daily routine. This can include having little or no idea of where they put an object, allowing neglected responsibilities to pile up, or failing to remember important tasks given to them; excessive procrastination is common in EIEs. The EIE has little respect for people who seem to be too concerned with their health and comfort and who avoid straining themselves. The EIE feels that people who focus too much on caring for themselves will have no time to achieve anything worthwhile.

The EIE will feel empty and restless if he is in a situation where he is expected to just chill out and have a good time; he would feel that this undermines his devotion to realizing his abstract visions. He can only enjoy visceral contact with reality if it is accompanied by an active will to initiate such contact, to intentionally engage it. EIEs frequently reflect on experiences with others, both positive and negative, and are always bracing themselves for future problems (which mostly involve other people). This extensive planning of future engagements cause EIEs to often feel restless as they want to implement their goals quickly. In situations where they are forced to remain patient and idle, EIEs can dwell in their stress and neglect real problems."

She is exceptionally empathetic and that is one of the first things I have noticed about her especially and why I value her as a good friend. She really knows how to smile and enjoy the moment without being harsh or critical.

Here's one example of her exceptional use of Fe in the right situation...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/637781-post11.html

I believe that an IEI would comment on the relationship, but she did not, I believe out of empathy and concern, but she did use her Fe for heightened response to what was going on with that icon/emoticon insertion...

[Trevor]

She is too happy to be an EIE. A rather socially adept being, thus Fe subtype IEI (SEI>ILI, anyone can see that). She's got a very good Fe, indeed (bear in mind that creative Fe>accepting Fe when it comes to goodness).

[redbaron]

She is too happy to be an EIE.

[redbaron]

I am not kidding you, they dress eligantly every day.

well, I definitely don't dress up every day. But I'm home with the kids and sometimes ride my motorcycle so I need to wear jeans for that. So... I dunno what that has to do with type, necessarily. When I go out or know that I'm gonna see people, I dress very well (and I do wear a lot of black, lol).

The main argument against EIE I think, is temperament. I don't think there's any possible way I could be Ej!?? But I dunno. I may have that "twitch" that John Lennon has (from the other thread). I'm not sure. I should probably make a video (eek! scary thought)

[redbaron]

Didn't Martika call RedBaron ESTj at some point? Or am I not remembering right?

yeah but then I sent her pics and she declared me EIE. I then did see *some* similarities, but that's not unusual to see similarities in one's mirror I suppose. I had just never considered it before since I was SO sure I'm Ip.

[Beautiful sky]

well, I definitely don't dress up every day. But I'm home with the kids and sometimes ride my motorcycle so I need to wear jeans for that. So... I dunno what that has to do with type, necessarily. When I go out or know that I'm gonna see people, I dress very well (and I do wear a lot of black, lol).

The main argument against EIE I think, is temperament. I don't think there's any possible way I could be Ej!?? But I dunno. I may have that "twitch" that John Lennon has (from the other thread). I'm not sure. I should probably make a video (eek! scary thought)

I am quoting from wiki socion below, why I support you being EIE..

Redbaron, do you hate being told what to do?

IEI are very likely to make judgements, assessments, about relationships...I do not see you doing this with your posts. You seem much more empathetic; am I correct?

[redbaron]

I am quoting from wiki socion below, why I support you being EIE..

Redbaron, do you hate being told what to do?

IEI are very likely to make judgements, assessments, about relationships...I do not see you doing this with your posts. You seem much more empathetic; am I correct?

I'm far too dreamy (and imaginative) but I don't show that on this forum. I'm mostly here because it makes me laugh and I enjoy the people. I do try to be empathetic with people because when you don't know people well, it's hard to make firm judgments/assessments on what's best for them or whatever. Who am I to say?

The first question: do I hate being told what to do? Wow, that's loaded because here's the deal: it depends. Sometimes, that's exactly what I need. But it has to be done a particular way. For example, I'm always in need of Se (I truly am Se-seeking which is another argument for IEI) but the kind that also gives me freedom and confidence to do it myself. I guess I'm like the teenager who needs to know that others think she can do it on her own and then gives her space to do it. I need someone to say "get off your butt and do your work now so we can have fun tonight!" and then I'm sufficiently motivated to get everything done MY way. So I don't like being told HOW to do something, but I do need that motivation and "just do it" sort of encouragement.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm far too dreamy (and imaginative) but I don't show that on this forum. I'm mostly here because it makes me laugh and I enjoy the people. I do try to be empathetic with people because when you don't know people well, it's hard to make firm judgments/assessments on what's best for them or whatever. Who am I to say?

The first question: do I hate being told what to do? Wow, that's loaded because here's the deal: it depends. Sometimes, that's exactly what I need. But it has to be done a particular way. For example, I'm always in need of Se (I truly am Se-seeking which is another argument for IEI) but the kind that also gives me freedom and confidence to do it myself. I guess I'm like the teenager who needs to know that others think she can do it on her own and then gives her space to do it. I need someone to say "get off your butt and do your work now so we can have fun tonight!" and then I'm sufficiently motivated to get everything done MY way. So I don't like being told HOW to do something, but I do need that motivation and "just do it" sort of encouragement.

An Se provider is not going to tell someone to "get off your butt" they are going to fill in the Se themselves and relieve the other person of Se duties, instead of expecting the other person to do Se things. Dual seeking is something we are missing completely, instead of somthing we don't have and wish that we could have stimulated...which is really the activating function, that sits there and is not distrubed and it's like the person doesn't even possess it, until someone with the right combination, or Se, comes along and activates it. If done the right way, then your Se should surpass the activities of other Se holders.

For IEI, they are missing Se, that means they are not Se seeking but would rather hand the responsibilities of Se to their dual, and want nothing at all to do with it...

By Se seeking, I believe that you want to someone to stimulate your Se, which is then a whole nother thing, that is wanting Se to be activated, which is in the 6th spot. I say this because you are not ignoring Se, you just can do the activation yourself and it furstrates you.

[redbaron]

For IEI, they are missing Se, that means they are not Se seeking but would rather hand the responsibilities of Se to their dual, and want nothing at all to do with it...

By Se seeking, I believe that you want to someone to stimulate your Se, which is then a whole nother thing, that is wanting Se to be activated, which is in the 6th spot.

yes but keep in mind that I'm 39 years old and have lived my entire life without any Se whatsoever and therefore have had to provide it for myself! I can't hand it over to my dual because I have no dual! I'm just now learning what this means (to provide it for myself). If I were with my dual, sure I could hand it over to him, awesome. And if it's not "se-seeking" then what is the IEI's "dual-seeking" function?

[Beautiful sky]

yes but keep in mind that I'm 39 years old and have lived my entire life without any Se whatsoever and therefore have had to provide it for myself! I can't hand it over to my dual because I have no dual! I'm just now learning what this means (to provide it for myself). If I were with my dual, sure I could hand it over to him, awesome. And if it's not "se-seeking" then what is the IEI's "dual-seeking" function?

Age, to me, doesn't matter. At least, after I read an article where an 87 year old holocaust survivor decided to become a pediatrician in the US. Another word, you can do it!

IEI does not have Se...that is their dual seeking function. They want nothing to do with this function being stimulated in any way, they want their dual to take care of Se, while they spend their time socializing.
EIE needs Se, that sits undestrubed to be activated, so that they can get their butt up and do things.


"IEIs have little natural or automatic awareness concerning their ability to make use of their willpower or position and exercise their will in opposition to others. Such a task is bothersome and they appreciate someone taking up the role for them and executing it well. "

"EIEs struggle with focus and willpower and have a need for something or someone that will focus them consistently and prod them to act despite any feelings of apprehension and doubt. EIEs know that they often need to "just do it" and often look for something or someone that will provide the impetus and make them "do it." EIEs are drawn to people who exude determination and resolve. People who are certain of their views and cannot be swayed by external forces are especially attractive. Such people are, in a way, the opposite of themselves."

[Beautiful sky]

You make a wonderful friend to me as an EIE.

[redbaron]

EIE needs Se, that sits undestrubed to be activated, so that they can get their butt up and do things.

"EIEs struggle with focus and willpower and have a need for something or someone that will focus them consistently and prod them to act despite any feelings of apprehension and doubt. EIEs know that they often need to "just do it" and often look for something or someone that will provide the impetus and make them "do it." EIEs are drawn to people who exude determination and resolve. People who are certain of their views and cannot be swayed by external forces are especially attractive. Such people are, in a way, the opposite of themselves."

If this is true, maybe I'm EIE. What is the source of this quote, Maritsa? I don't think I've read it before.

[Beautiful sky]

If this is true, maybe I'm EIE. What is the source of this quote, Maritsa? I don't think I've read it before.

WikiSocion...it has improved a lot since I last checked the descriptions...

Ethical Intuitive Extratim - Wikisocion

I absolutely dislike poles for typing people, because of my Se PoLR, I feel that I face a wall and that my voice disappears into thin air and that people don't read what I write, as well as I feel that I can not push to have what I write recognize, but I feel comfortable with you because you don't apply pressure with me, where it hurts me the most. Majority of people don't have a clue anyway, they just will add fluff to your emotions by saying something to help you affirm what you think of yourself, even though that may be a total lie, which is something I NEVER do, because I am exceptionally honest. I do not support fluff psychology (oh it will be ok, when it really isn't, when what people need is the truth so that they can find solutions to help themselves grow and gain understanding and proper support for their weaknessess or perceived stressors).

Look, 6 people voted you IEI, when you are not. I am the only one who voted against you being that type because of what I am able to see, comprehend and understand as well as tie them into functions and what they mean. Yet, I feel that my voice is still not strong.

[redbaron]

seems pretty good, yeah. who wrote it, do you know?

[Beautiful sky]

seems pretty good, yeah. who wrote it, do you know?

Rick DeLong.

[redbaron]

but this is also me:

IEIs are awed in the face of someone adept at using their willpower or position and exercising their will in opposition to others. IEIs are drawn to people who exude this self-confidence and personal presence; just being with them is enlivening. These are the people who dream big dreams and are capable of achieving them, who aren't fazed by the obstacles that so often stand in the IEI's path.

The IEIs' own world is one of indecision and hesitation when it comes to taking action and striking out on their own. What best removes this hesitation is when someone else really wants them to do something. The IEI then relies on the other person's strong desire to mobilize them to action, as if the force of their desire were their own.

[redbaron]

I also relate to this:

IEIs seek help understanding and perceiving objective measurements and correlations between data within a system, but past a certain point such judgment is seen as overkill. IEIs do not tend to store such information themselves, but they appreciate this trait in others. They may doubt their objectivity in such areas of understanding, and desire a partner who is strong and responsive in this function to ensure certainty.

They have a secret desire to truly understand things, but will fall short without an outer reference to keep them on the same page. Without a partner who can provide motivation and logical structural reference, they may slide off the edge of the map, lost in their dreams and out of touch with reality.

IEIs are aware of their own disorganization with logical constructs and can sometimes feel as though they do not know what to do about it. Sometimes a simple routine way of categorizing ideas and their logical correlations can do wonders for IEIs, as long as they still feel independent and free to explore the subject matter creatively.

[Beautiful sky]

but this is also me:

IEIs are awed in the face of someone adept at using their willpower or position and exercising their will in opposition to others. IEIs are drawn to people who exude this self-confidence and personal presence; just being with them is enlivening. These are the people who dream big dreams and are capable of achieving them, who aren't fazed by the obstacles that so often stand in the IEI's path.

The IEIs' own world is one of indecision and hesitation when it comes to taking action and striking out on their own. What best removes this hesitation is when someone else really wants them to do something. The IEI then relies on the other person's strong desire to mobilize them to action, as if the force of their desire were their own.

I think the relation with that would come from you wanting that function stimulated. You have to try to keep in mind that unlike you, IEI is missing that function, so, both of you would be in awe of anyone with that function...IEI would want it to take care of her stuff, and you would want it to help you get up and do things, to encourage you, while IEI just is in awe of it but doesn't want the person to encourage her to take care of Se.

One is the audience (that is the IEI- a very loyal spectator/fan, someone who doesn't want any involvement in the show of Se but really loves to watch it), the other is a costar (EIE -who feeds off, is inspired by the leader's Se and she feels that because of that presence she can do things). Both are in awe of Se for two reason...one to watch, without involvement; the other to be inspired/activated.

[redbaron]

I think the relation with that would come from you wanting that function stimulated. You have to try to keep in mind that unlike you, IEI is missing that function, so, both of you would be in awe of anyone with that function...IEI would want it to take care of her stuff, and you would want it to help you get up and do things, to encourage you, while IEI just is in awe of it but doesn't want the person to encourage her to take care of Se.

and I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have the option of having someone else take care of it for me at this point. I HAVE to do things myself or else nothing gets done. Does that make sense? I would love for someone else to do it for me but that's never going to happen. Therefore I need encouragement to do it myself so that I can move forward in my life.

One is the audience (that is the IEI- a very loyal spectator/fan, someone who doesn't want any involvement in the show of Se but really loves to watch it), the other is a costar (EIE -who feeds off, is inspired by the leader's Se and she feels that because of that presence she can do things). Both are in awe of Se for two reason...one to watch, without involvement; the other to be inspired/activated.

that's a good description. so the question is, which is more my natural self? I need to think about that. I do feel that the reason I've pushed myself forward to provide it on my own (and this is only a recent thing, not for all my life), is because I got so sick of living without it.

[Beautiful sky]

and I guess what I'm saying is that I don't have the option of having someone else take care of it for me at this point. I HAVE to do things myself or else nothing gets done. Does that make sense? I would love for someone else to do it for me but that's never going to happen. Therefore I need encouragement to do it myself so that I can move forward in my life.


that's a good description. so the question is, which is more my natural self? I need to think about that. I do feel that the reason I've pushed myself forward to provide it on my own (and this is only a recent thing, not for all my life), is because I got so sick of living without it.

When I ask people to type themselves, I ask them to look at this thing first, whether they want or need a certain function. Second thing I ask is them to try to figure out their polr.

You want or need Se

Then, I would encourage you to look at other things about both of the type like PoLR. Which one is your PoLR and the third thing is, which one do you look like to others but are really not that kind, the third spot of your model A.

I listed the two polrs in here...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/637945-post7.html

[redbaron]

Okay, first for the IEI's polr: I will highlight what I DO think applies to me:

IEIs have limited endurance in awareness concerning methods to achieve their purposes without wasting any energy or producing unwanted side effects. This creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. They do not value the importance of this area, and it can lead to painful consequences.

Taking care of intensely detailed work that is required to reach their goals, like managing finance or being pragmatic in business ventures, will exhaust their sense of concentration and they will find it frustrating as they continually encounter mistakes and things they had forgotten about or inadvertently ignored.

IEIs also hate being told what to do. They dislike having the details of the process--rote facts and statistics--thrown at them, giving more weight to an intuitive understanding of how the events within the process culminate inevitably in a certain result. They will distrust and dislike bossy people, and will avoid people who will assign them routine work like chores. They will even avoid their friends and family when they expect that they will be assigned such work, and do not enjoy fulfilling daily chores.

They dislike rote routine and do not give much attention to what others may view as the practical aspects of life. They may seem oblivious to objective reality, lost in their "dreams." This causes them to periodically lose track of their belongings, making them feel rather inadequate. IEIs will be overly stressed or even counter-productive in an atmosphere where speedy organization and efficiency are forced upon them.

I don't really understand what the first paragraph is saying. But literally everything else in this description fits me. I'll write a separate post for EIE.

[Beautiful sky]

I think, if you had Te polr, and you had a job with routine responsibility where the boss told you what to do, would you be ok with it or not? Te PoLR would not be at all, because first, they hate being told what to do. While I think EIE wouldn't mind being told what to do to get the job done.

Te people build methods for doing things and they are very strict about these methods...they judge people's tasks to see if what they are doing is the most effective way of doing something. My cousin who is TeSi loves to paint, to paint she has the most effective method, from step one to the end, and every step of the way is done with utmost attention to detail and quality of work. They comment on how to do this or that, anything and practically everything. I as an EII, absolutely love that and I love to hear how they did this or that, it's amuzing to me.

Te PoLR is polr to TeSi or TeNi; because they don't want to be judged by the method, quality of their work and these polr people are very good at casting such judgement; of EIE, it's not really judgement, put it's not like they want to run away and hide from it, either, because Te to EIE is in their Third spot, not PoLR, that is that they can feel that they are pretty good at it while to others it may seem that also, but in reality they aren't as tood as Te leading:

Te to EIE in the Third spot.

"EIEs do not easily focus on the procedural aspects of things where their emotions and excitement have no place. They avoid administrative tasks whenever possible. Although they dislike routine work, they admire those who are able to maintain organization and efficiency in their lives, as long as those standards aren't imposed on themselves. They also enjoy an extent of logical debate about intellectual topics but hardly consider practicality when it comes to forming their own beliefs.

Efficiency always takes the back seat when the feelings of others are involved. The EIE will often disregard how work is being done if friends are leading the effort. If an enemy is in charge the EIE will harass and defame the enemy if a procedure is not being done effectively. EIEs like to simply get their work done in a short amount time and get it out of the way, often without putting much of a focus on the quality of the work itself. As such they tend to dislike those who are overly 'work-oriented' and indifferent to the emotional aspect of things. However, EIEs appreciate someone who knows an abundance of information; one who can be depended on to correct problems and maximize the efficiency of work-related projects the EIE is involved in.

EIEs attempt to make their emotive decisions correlate to rationality when taking action, as they want others to see the logic in the actions the EIE wants to take. However, when they themselves are confident in the importance of doing something, EIEs feel that logical explanations are only necessary for those who ask for them. Personal decisions are mainly made without even factoring in productivity or how beneficial they are, as EIEs tend to have a difficult time considering those factors."

[redbaron]

EIE polr: again, highlighting what applies to me:

The EIE is more likely to measure the comfortableness of conversation than other more physiological signs. Still, they are quite attuned to the the physical sensations others are experiencing and use the information to raise and lower the emotional conditions that those individuals are experiencing. In any case however, EIEs are prone to making errors in daily routine. This can include having little or no idea of where they put an object, allowing neglected responsibilities to pile up, or failing to remember important tasks given to them; excessive procrastination is common in EIEs. The EIE has little respect for people who seem to be too concerned with their health and comfort and who avoid straining themselves. The EIE feels that people who focus too much on caring for themselves will have no time to achieve anything worthwhile.

I actually have little respect for the person who strains themselves TOO much and doesn't dole out their energies as needed. Like my husband who is always busying himself about the housework and I'll tell him to relax and he can't but then by the middle of the day he's exhausted. Why? because he didn't heed my advice.

The EIE will feel empty and restless if he is in a situation where he is expected to just chill out and have a good time; he would feel that this undermines his devotion to realizing his abstract visions. He can only enjoy visceral contact with reality if it is accompanied by an active will to initiate such contact, to intentionally engage it. EIEs frequently reflect on experiences with others, both positive and negative, and are always bracing themselves for future problems (which mostly involve other people). This extensive planning of future engagements cause EIEs to often feel restless as they want to implement their goals quickly. In situations where they are forced to remain patient and idle, EIEs can dwell in their stress and neglect real problems.

this last part is sometimes true, and sometimes not true!! I often don't have goals, or don't know exactly what they are. So it's hard to implement what you're not sure you're after. I'm okay with being idle. That's something I'm good at. lol!

[redbaron]

I think, if you had Te polr, and you had a job with routine responsibility where the boss told you what to do, would you be ok with it or not? Te PoLR would not be at all, because first, they hate being told what to do. While I think EIE wouldn't mind being told what to do to get the job done.

Te people build methods for doing things and they are very strict about these methods...they judge people's tasks to see if what they are doing is the most effective way of doing something. My cousin who is TeSi loves to paint, to paint she has the most effective method, from step one to the end, and every step of the way is done with utmost attention to detail and quality of work.

I hate that crap. I mean, I guess in a sense I ought to admire it. But I just don't and I can't follow it myself. If I had to do it for a job, well sure I would. That's why I'm getting paid. But I wouldn't LIKE it.

[redbaron]

Te PoLR is polr to TeSi or TeNi; because they don't want to be judged by the method, quality of their work and these polr people are very good at casting such judgement; of EIE, it's not really judgement, put it's not like they want to run away and hide from it, either.

run and hide!!!!!!!

[stanprollyright]

For IEI, they are missing Se, that means they are not Se seeking but would rather hand the responsibilities of Se to their dual, and want nothing at all to do with it...

No, this is bullshit. redbaron is completely right about what Se dual-seeking is like. Your suggestive function is the one you can't get enough of, not the one you want to avoid and have someone else take care of (PoLR).

If someone experiences a deficiency of [the suggestive function] in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization)

In order to be able to act, [the IXI] needs a tangible and definite stimulus from somebody well grounded in external reality and who has a clear picture of what must be done in a certain situation.

[Beautiful sky]

No, this is bullshit. redbaron is completely right about what Se dual-seeking is like. Your suggestive function is the one you can't get enough of, not the one you want to avoid and have someone else take care of (PoLR).

No, your suggestive function is the one missing piece.
Your activity function is the one you can't get enough of but can not produce yourself.

Here let me grab that from socioniko, maybe there's a mistake somewhere.

"The SUPER-ID Block (5 + 6):
A person wants to get support for these functions, and often "does not have enough time" to care for such p[roblems, to solve them himself/herself. Moreover, he/she often does not clearly realize what he/she really needs, and thus tends to give his/her partner freedom of actions in such matters.

5. The Suggestive Function: "I do not notice until it pains", but as soon as troubles appear, the individual becomes very dependent from this function, gladly follows other people's advices and hopes for their help.

6. The Activation Function: a person's activity on this function depends on the surrounding; when this function is "energized" by others – his/her activity may even sometimes exceed activity of other people, and when it is not – the activity disappears without leaving a trace."

[Beautiful sky]

No, this is bullshit. redbaron is completely right about what Se dual-seeking is like. Your suggestive function is the one you can't get enough of, not the one you want to avoid and have someone else take care of (PoLR).

Oh ok, I see what I wrote, please excuse me. I did make a mistake there. You are right. You don't have to say it so meanly you know, you can just say "Maritsa, I believe that you may have confused deffinition of functions here or there...."

But still, what I think Redbaron is dependent on is other people's Se as an activation function rather then as a dual seeking.

The question is, is which one does she not notice until it pains, Se (IEI) or Ti (EIE)?

[redbaron]

No, your suggestive function is the one missing piece.
Your activity function is the one you can't get enough of but can not produce yourself.

Here let me grab that from socioniko, maybe there's a mistake somewhere.

"The SUPER-ID Block (5 + 6):
A person wants to get support for these functions, and often "does not have enough time" to care for such p[roblems, to solve them himself/herself. Moreover, he/she often does not clearly realize what he/she really needs, and thus tends to give his/her partner freedom of actions in such matters.

5. The Suggestive Function: "I do not notice until it pains", but as soon as troubles appear, the individual becomes very dependent from this function, gladly follows other people's advices and hopes for their help.

6. The Activation Function: a person's activity on this function depends on the surrounding; when this function is "energized" by others – his/her activity may even sometimes exceed activity of other people, and when it is not – the activity disappears without leaving a trace."

I feel that Se is my 5th.

[Beautiful sky]

I feel that Se is my 5th.

Do you have a good understanding of Ti and what Ti means?


Ti dual seeking EIE

"EIEs admire people whose thinking is clear-cut, unambiguous, and stalwart, who reduce the myriad of possibilities down to one single option. This is something they are almost completely unable to do on their own (they easily doubt their ability to choose right), but have a deep need for in other people.

In conversation EIEs tend to go off on tangents when something is mentioned that triggers an emotional response, and they often need to be reminded of the subject matter or purpose of the discussion.

EIEs love to hear about information that their friends know. Talking about academic subjects, music, and movies expands the horizons of the EIE and gives them direction. The EIE is happy to simply be a part of the discussion of various subjects, while providing emotional input himself. The information just gives them a new reason to see their friends, and more things to talk about with them.

EIEs are happy to let someone else organize their schedule and keep track of their engagements and things to do."

You see, what Diane does is eliminate contridictions until she reduces the whole thing down to one option. I strive to do this because Ti is in my third spot, but I obviously can not do it as well as she can.

[redbaron]

Do you have a good understanding of Ti and what Ti means?


Ti dual seeking EIE

"EIEs admire people whose thinking is clear-cut, unambiguous, and stalwart, who reduce the myriad of possibilities down to one single option. This is something they are almost completely unable to do on their own (they easily doubt their ability to choose right), but have a deep need for in other people.

In conversation EIEs tend to go off on tangents when something is mentioned that triggers an emotional response, and they often need to be reminded of the subject matter or purpose of the discussion.

EIEs love to hear about information that their friends know. Talking about academic subjects, music, and movies expands the horizons of the EIE and gives them direction. The EIE is happy to simply be a part of the discussion of various subjects, while providing emotional input himself. The information just gives them a new reason to see their friends, and more things to talk about with them.

EIEs are happy to let someone else organize their schedule and keep track of their engagements and things to do."

You see, what Diane does is eliminate contridictions until she reduces the whole thing down to one option. I strive to do this because Ti is in my third spot, but I obviously can not do it as well as she can.

I like this stuff too. However, I probably see less of a need for it in my life as opposed to Se. Then again, I haven't known many LSIs so it's maybe hard to say.

[Beautiful sky]

I like this stuff too. However, I probably see less of a need for it in my life as opposed to Se. Then again, I haven't known many LSIs so it's maybe hard to say.

With the missing piece, you don't often know that it's missing because we all work around it and we don't recognize it until we have it. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast.

[redbaron]

With the missing piece, you don't often know that it's missing because we all work around it and we don't recognize it until we have it. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast.

exactly. I'll think about this some more later on... gotta run the kids around now.

[stanprollyright]

Oh ok, I see what I wrote, please excuse me. I did make a mistake there. You are right. You don't have to say it so meanly you know, you can just say "Maritsa, I believe that you may have confused deffinition of functions here or there...."

But it wasn't here or there, it was your basis for your entire argument. The dual-seeking function is one you tend to ignore, yes, but it isn't a "missing piece". It's one you very much realize you need help in or need more of in your life, especially if you've read any socionics theory.