Your opinion.
Your opinion.
No because they are a secure Alpha.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
More than some other types, certainly, but I think a lot of it depends on the individual ESE's background, level of dualization, etc.
Quaero Veritas.
Actually, so far I think they do (SEIs as well, though perhaps a bit less so). So far the ESEs I am familiar with seem to have a rather serious problem with themselves in that they are not really okay with themselves and maybe due to the dynamic nature of Fe leading (Fi ignoring) seem to be unable to find themselves and run from everything they don't want to be or see themselves as. They are very sensitive to criticism to the extent that they may not even listen to it because it hurts too much to think this potentially bad thing about who they are. They then invent things about themselves, but without any consistency or even knowing what they're doing and head off on various neurotic paths away from themselves never addressing their actual feelings and issues. They lock onto something that they see as the true wisdom and then apply it to everything and repeat it constantly and craft out what they should be based upon it, while covering up the internally wounded person who feels inherently worthless. Unfortunately most people don't react very well to these sorts of presentations and so ESEs really do better if they can be around non-judgmental Alpha types so they can retain some sanity and perhaps have a chance of becoming gradually okay with themselves. Anyway, with their focus on other people, they often see others as great wonderful people who are much more valuable than they are and seek to gain the approval of these people, because having not accepted who they are they have nowhere else to turn for acceptance than other people. I think this is why LIIs would be especially helpful to them because not only will LIIs be able to accept them but they will see who/what they are clearly and see all of the patterns in their behavior clearly and so can gradually guide the ESE to seeing who they are, which is of course essential for self-acceptance.
If this sounds completely crazy or doesn't sound like the ESEs you know, that would be great. It's what I've noticed so far, and it's very possible I've just never known a "healthy" ESE, and even that ESEs through being so open and obvious just wear all of their neuroses on thier sleeves and so they look more this way than other types.
I was thinking about what Rick proposed about types being associated with certain overwhelming needs, particularly in conjunction with this profile of the Transformer "Bumblebee".
Who's Who in the Transformers Universe
Judging by his behavior, I believe Bumblebee was designed with an ESFJ personality in mind. But it's interesting in that although the designer of the character probably did not rely on MBTI when creating the design for Bumblebee, this character sketch nonetheless offers, for the experienced writer, an intuitive impression that we typology enthusiasts can easily evaluate as ESFJ! I believe this must be because the writer has had experience with ESFJs in the past, and learned to correlate their desire to be accepted with certain other traits, which intuitively lend to a decidedly ESFJ impression."The least likely can be the most dangerous."
Bumblebee is the Autobots' little brother. He's small, eager and at times can be a bit of a smart-mouth. Yet for all his wisecracks, he obviously idolizes the bigger robots, especially Optimus and Prowl. He is useful as a messenger and a spy; he can go where other vehicles would not dare because he does not look threatening. And his relatively small size occasionally enables him to use routes not available to the others. More than anything, Bumblebee wants to be accepted, and this sometimes causes him to take chances he shouldn't.
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Last edited by pinkcanary; 06-10-2017 at 02:00 AM.
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Last edited by pinkcanary; 06-10-2017 at 02:00 AM.
yes they do. In an Fe way anyway. Underneath that though, they can be quite sassy and independent and I don't think care all that much. But they need to sort of initially fulfill the Fe first, and then the sassy comes out.
So I'd complain to my bf like this: "Did you eat all of my yogurts? I really wanted to eat one!! I'm bummed."
My ESFj friend. "So are you enjoying that yogurt? hmm. uh huh." 10 minutes later "So my aunt said blah blah (unrelated stuff." An hour later "So, this is kind of hard to say. But, please never again eat all of my yogurt! I have no yogurt left and have to make my lunch tomorrow with nothing to bring! I'm very upset about this!" (it's like they don't want to be as direct because they're afraid people won't like them).
ESFjs sometimes criticize me for being too blunt or upfront w/ guys, usually my bf at the time. They'll say the same thing, but with more Fe candy coating, or they'll wait for a better time.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I'm pretty sure that alpha Fe IS acceptance: the actual state of having been accepted or rejected, and/or the act of acceptance or rejection of another. It's anchored on notions of equality (gamma Fi) between the acceptee and the acceptor, and is sought after on basis of the emotions (beta Fe) of the acceptee towards the acceptor.
So if the base function is anchored on need, what do LIIs need? Prediction? Effectiveness? Awareness?
Good example. Is this an experience you had yourself, or is it something you imagined?Originally Posted by jewels
They, like ESTj, don't want to be caregivers, but companions.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
They are very focused on physically 'doing' things for the people they like / want to impress / care about.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'd agree with practically everything in this thread, even the Bummblebee reference...lol. Though it has a considerably negative vibe to it, almost like the need to be accepted is actually a bad thing. Is it really that bad though?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
The way I see it, they try to make the world a more tolerant, accepting place, because then they will likely be accepted. Particularly, they try to make the world more accepting and tolerant of people who are like them.
Let's say that I was an ESFJ, and I had ADD. Now, people might prejudice me over this. I've got a problem with both social and personal dimensions. Now because I'm attentive to people getting rejected, I can see that I'm not the only ADD person out there having a rough time. By becoming an advocate for ADD people, I can make things easier on others and myself. I can put a human face on the disorder, and show people that ADD people can be all these other things that aren't related to being ADD.
you say that so matter-of-factly. reminds me of my daughter, "mom, everybody's got a weak point." y'all have old souls i'm telling you. she was born comfortable in her own skin. if LII and ILE are the youngest souls, SEI and ESE are the oldest of the socion.
/hijack: all deltas are middle aged. betas: half older adult, half teenage. gamma: half rising adult, half older middle adult. that's why gamma makes all the money. LOL end hijack/
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
cracka!
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Although I agree with a lot of what has been written so far, I think perhaps one aspect of the discussion that has been missing is the impact of the ESE's hidden agenda. Personally, I view their HA as the primary driving force behind this constant struggle (or so it feels to them) to feel like their actions and behavior are appropriate and accepted by those around them.
sociotype.com
LII
sociotype.com
LII
hahaha your cryptic mirror criticism is recognized. know that your Ti leading will crumble in its rigidity. bwhahahahaha
actually though i do have this idea about the aging of souls and how they make their way through the quadras. but i'd have to think some more and prolly open a whole thread about it.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I don't think I meant my post to be totally critical and negative, and also I'm critical of the part of me that is somewhat like this wrt self-acceptance, so that could be part of it. I still think it might be somewhat delusional of me associating some of this with ESE to begin with.
As for my type, I don't really know what it is anymore. I don't think it's Beta though anymore. I also don't see anything really at this point to indicate it would have to be Ni leading. I've been giving thought lately to Si more.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not
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Last edited by pinkcanary; 06-10-2017 at 01:58 AM.