Stages of Duality in the Alpha Dyads

[Krig the Viking]

In this thread, there was an interesting discussion on the stages that Duality goes through, and I'm interested in looking at it from a specifically Alpha angle. For those of you who have had experience with some or all of these stages of Dualization, in what order did they play out, and in what way? I'm curious if there's any consistent pattern for the different types and dual pairs, as the article suggests. I'm especially interested in getting an ESE perspective on this, if there happens to be any of them hanging around here, say after having returned from a long absence...

I'll post my own (somewhat limited) experiences below.

Socionics researchers studying the development of dual relations found it had eight common stages.

Not always occurring in the same order depending on the Quadra and which dual pair.

As not to be confused with the way other relationships develop, refer to these common characteristics.

It is especially important because the dual contact is worthwhile.

So be attentive to it.





1. The sensing a necessity to meet again. You notice this afterwards, after your first contact. It is something unconscious, perceptive and mysterious. An inevitable feeling as if you need to meet this person again. Unexpectedly, they attached to something within you. Suddenly you begin to understand that you really need to see this person. If you do something, your thoughts are about this person.



2. A Persons who for the first time in their life finds themselves in dual contact tries to remember: “Where could have we meet with before?!” (Of course, it is uselessly). Nevertheless, both are sure they have known each other for many years.



3. The sensation of safety appears for both duals. You observe this sensation and you cannot mix it with something up. A sensation of amazing and undisturbed composure describes this. It happens in the moment, a forming of common atmosphere; it can be easy felt, you intuitively know.



4. Both duals begin to feel simultaneously and equally the “impossibility” to be separated even for short time. It is very an exact and very real sensation of dual contact.



5. Both duals feel something like an internal joy, that fills up the soul. The smile on your face appears like a quiet happy smile of conciliation and rest.

The joy as behavior reaction is one of most accurate characteristic of dual dyad. This joy can appear without any certain reason. (Duals can laugh even without any certain reason just looking to each other. This joy arises like from sub consciousness – J.S.)



6. Little by little, both duals begin to feel, the need for maximum and close contact. If persons are not married, then it’s a good start for relations. If both duals have their own families, it is hard to keep their families. It is interesting that it is just natural evolution of the situation. It happens spontaneously like a “matter-of-course”…



7. The leveling of dual energy. This phenomenon appears almost immediately. The duals should just to be together, just to seat close by, sometimes even without touching each other. The maximum term for leveling of dual energy – 40 minutes (it is a result of investigation) and after that duals renew their energy. It does not depend on the depth of the “energy hole”.



8. This is most interesting stage. Duals cannot describe their feelings. You feel so comfortable, so at ease, it is as if you feel nothing at all…Sometimes it is impossible to notice the presence of your dual. Sometimes you completely forget about your dual all, then suddenly you see your dual!!! (How could I forget about them???)

For my part, I've known at least four ESEs with whom I've experienced at least a few of these stages of Duality: a choir instructor of mine, an aunt, a former co-worker, and a girl from church. For whatever reason, they're all female. Perhaps attraction plays a role, even in cases where there is clearly no possibility of or desire for a pairing? I've also known some other ESEs with whom I've never been close enough to experience any of these stages.

In my experience, from a distance the ESE appears admirable and fun, but too busy and popular to pay any attention to me. After interacting a bit, however, the first stage to appear is Stage 3 -- a strange feeling of safety, like this person is "on my side". I feel like I know and understand this person in a way that nobody else seems to. I've never had the "Where do I know you from" feeling of confusion that Stage 2 describes, but there is this peculiar feeling of understanding -- like I can just glance at this person and know what she's thinking, or if she's struggling to explain something, I immediately understand and can finish explaining for her. There's this subtle "us against the world" feeling, well before the relationship is remotely close enough to warrant it.

The next stage to appear, I think, is Stage 7, the leveling of Dual energy. This seems to happen after somewhat longer periods of one-on-one or mostly one-on-one interaction, say 5-10 minutes or more. It's this relaxed feeling of calmness and stillness, where I no longer feel internally stretched and drained from the stress of social interaction and Super-Ego-related worry. I feel stronger and more able to take on the world.

This is followed naturally by Stage 5, the feeling of internal joy. I've reached this stage with only two of the four ESEs under consideration. It's pretty great. I've been known to dance a jig afterwards.

Somewhere in there, Stage 1 occurs -- the sensation of a necessity to meet again. It's subtle at first, but it grows stronger and stronger, until eventually, at some point after the internal joy thing, it turns into Stage 4, the feeling of the "impossibility" of being separated even for a short time. I've experienced this with only one ESE, and it's been quite unpleasant, as the feeling of separation being impossible even for a short time does not actually prevent separation, even for a long time. Also, despite what the article says, it seems that this "impossibility" is not necessarily simultaneous or equal in both duals. Ah, woe is me.

I haven't really experienced stages 6 or 8 in any significant way, so far.

So yeah, I'm particularly interested in how ESEs experience all this, since as an LII I find it nearly impossible to tell what other people are really feeling. I'm also interested in how ILE and SEI experiences compare -- while there's obviously a personal element to my interest in all this, I am also genuinely interested in the underlying mechanisms. So what say you?

[Creepy-male]

"Duality sounds strangely like love."

[MatthewZ]

"Duality sounds strangely like love."

Because I have a fetish for all things converse, inverse, and contrapositive:

"Love sounds strangely like duality."

[Krig the Viking]

Because I have a fetish for all things converse, inverse, and contrapositive:

"Love sounds strangely like duality."

This.

Crap, I think I met a dual . I randomly met her last thursday when she popped into the office and automatically liked the girl. My SLE/EIE/ESE/whatever friend invited her to a party and at first she was kind of reluctant since she doesn't drink anymore since she got AP about a year back. Then I was all, "Aw, you could still come and hang out though. It'll be fun!" and we sort of made full on eye contact and something inexplicable twisted inside (like omg this girl is not like every other girl I've met) and she grinned, shrugged in an over the top way and said maybe. I wasn't holding my breath since she had a bf.

And she SHOWED, sans boyfriend. I almost spat beer when she walked through the door. Honestly though lol, I immediately went into shy mode, but we kept making eye contact and I was reasonably not sober so I said fuck it and plopped next to her and made retarded small talk. Stupid things like, "So where do you work? I haven't seen you around before" which was deep down my way of trying to figure out a way to see her again. She kept getting annoyed that her friend was texting her to make sure she wasn't "making bad decisions" *exaggerated wink at me* and I just shrugged, smiled, and said it was awesome to have friends that look out for you. At about that point I got drafted into a flip cup game and by the time it was over she was nowhere to be seen. That was when some kind of hilarious guy I work with told me my girl left and I was all, "Who? You mean A" and he retorted "Yeeeeeep".

Then apparently I did more drunk texting than I thought because my friend that threw the party was telling me today that I sent him something along the lines of "idc if she has a bf, A was banging. She's got that sexy librarian thing going on".

So which, if any, of the stages there would you say you experienced? It rather sounds like you're already experiencing Stage 1...

[Fabelie]

These stages of duality almost seem too good to be true. :\ I'm not sure how I feel about this. hmm.

[electric sheep]

I know the first stage really well. It seems to take a bit of intervention or a bit of luck to get past that. Without it, there's just a really loose bond between us that really is there, but it's like every brief contact we have with each other, it's there, it's fantastic, and then it's gone.

[silverchris9]

These stages of duality almost seem too good to be true. :\ I'm not sure how I feel about this. hmm.

Well, it is too good to be true insofar as this doesn't actually happen with most duals. But it does accurately describe a potential development of very very good (ideal?) human relationships, which is most easily (only?) achieved in dual pairs. But no, this isn't going to just magically happen with the first person you find that's the right type, nor is it going to happen immediately; you may know the person, you may even be friends, for a long time before any of the real fireworks happen, and if/when they do, there's no real explanation for why it especially clicks with one dual and not the other. Duality is more of a necessary than a sufficient condition for the sort of relationship described, or, more accurately, duality is one of the factors that makes it especially likely that such a relationship will be achieved, but not the only factor by any means.

[Khola aka Bee]

These stages of duality almost seem too good to be true. :\ I'm not sure how I feel about this. hmm.

I agree, it sounds like grandiose idealism to me.

[munenori2]

So which, if any, of the stages there would you say you experienced? It rather sounds like you're already experiencing Stage 1...

1, 3, 5 and a bit of 2.

[munenori2]

Crap, I think I met a dual . I randomly met her last thursday when she popped into the office and automatically liked the girl. My SLE/EIE/ESE/whatever friend invited her to a party and at first she was kind of reluctant since she doesn't drink anymore since she got AP about a year back. Then I was all, "Aw, you could still come and hang out though. It'll be fun!" and we sort of made full on eye contact and something inexplicable twisted inside (like omg this girl is not like every other girl I've met) and she grinned, shrugged in an over the top way and said maybe. I wasn't holding my breath since she had a bf.

And she SHOWED, sans boyfriend. I almost spat beer when she walked through the door. Honestly though lol, I immediately went into shy mode, but we kept making eye contact and I was reasonably not sober so I said fuck it and plopped next to her and made retarded small talk. Stupid things like, "So where do you work? I haven't seen you around before" which was deep down my way of trying to figure out a way to see her again. She kept getting annoyed that her friend was texting her to make sure she wasn't "making bad decisions" *exaggerated wink at me* and I just shrugged, smiled, and said it was awesome to have friends that look out for you. At about that point I got drafted into a flip cup game and by the time it was over she was nowhere to be seen. That was when some kind of hilarious guy I work with told me my girl left and I was all, "Who? You mean A" and he retorted "Yeeeeeep".

Then apparently I did more drunk texting than I thought because my friend that threw the party was telling me today that I sent him something along the lines of "idc if she has a bf, A was banging. She's got that sexy librarian thing going on".

[Blaze]

Crap, I think I met a dual . I randomly met her last thursday when she popped into the office and automatically liked the girl. My SLE/EIE/ESE/whatever friend invited her to a party and at first she was kind of reluctant since she doesn't drink anymore since she got AP about a year back. Then I was all, "Aw, you could still come and hang out though. It'll be fun!" and we sort of made full on eye contact and something inexplicable twisted inside (like omg this girl is not like every other girl I've met) and she grinned, shrugged in an over the top way and said maybe. I wasn't holding my breath since she had a bf.

And she SHOWED, sans boyfriend. I almost spat beer when she walked through the door. Honestly though lol, I immediately went into shy mode, but we kept making eye contact and I was reasonably not sober so I said fuck it and plopped next to her and made retarded small talk. Stupid things like, "So where do you work? I haven't seen you around before" which was deep down my way of trying to figure out a way to see her again. She kept getting annoyed that her friend was texting her to make sure she wasn't "making bad decisions" *exaggerated wink at me* and I just shrugged, smiled, and said it was awesome to have friends that look out for you. At about that point I got drafted into a flip cup game and by the time it was over she was nowhere to be seen. That was when some kind of hilarious guy I work with told me my girl left and I was all, "Who? You mean A" and he retorted "Yeeeeeep".

Then apparently I did more drunk texting than I thought because my friend that threw the party was telling me today that I sent him something along the lines of "idc if she has a bf, A was banging. She's got that sexy librarian thing going on".

schweeet! now, about this girl. happened?

[Timeless]

1. The sensing a necessity to meet again. You notice this afterwards, after your first contact. It is something unconscious, perceptive and mysterious. An inevitable feeling as if you need to meet this person again. Unexpectedly, they attached to something within you. Suddenly you begin to understand that you really need to see this person. If you do something, your thoughts are about this person.

2. A Persons who for the first time in their life finds themselves in dual contact tries to remember: “Where could have we meet with before?!” (Of course, it is uselessly). Nevertheless, both are sure they have known each other for many years.

3. The sensation of safety appears for both duals. You observe this sensation and you cannot mix it with something up. A sensation of amazing and undisturbed composure describes this. It happens in the moment, a forming of common atmosphere; it can be easy felt, you intuitively know.

I think we got a taste of this.

[Krig the Viking]

I think we got a taste of this.

Hmm. Reading that, I'm wondering if the speed at which relationships develop varies between types. I know another ILE-SEI couple who also say that things developed very quickly between them. If there's no correlation to types, then I wonder factors do influence this...

[Timeless]

Hmm. Reading that, I'm wondering if the speed at which relationships develop varies between types. I know another ILE-SEI couple who also say that things developed very quickly between them. If there's no correlation to types, then I wonder factors do influence this...

How fast was it the couple you know? For us, I'd say we spent about an hour together since we first met there, and during that we got really comfortable with each other. After that she had to go—that was the worst part—then the rest of the stuff happened.

That's an interesting point though; maybe a group of open-minded types are more likely to bypass (or simply being aware of) "social and societal conditioning," "rules of dating," and all of that stuff while more types are inclined to follow (or simply being unaware of) and stick through them. I guess with that said, one group can probably be "speedier" and one can be "slower" in that respect. What types exactly? I don't know, I'm still learning Socionics.

[Krig the Viking]

How fast was it the couple you know? For us, I'd say we spent about an hour together since we first met there, and during that we got really comfortable with each other. After that she had to go—that was the worst part—then the rest of the stuff happened.

That's an interesting point though; maybe a group of open-minded types are more likely to bypass (or simply being aware of) "social and societal conditioning," "rules of dating," and all of that stuff while more types are inclined to follow (or simply being unaware of) and stick through them. I guess with that said, one group can probably be "speedier" and one can be "slower" in that respect. What types exactly? I don't know, I'm still learning Socionics.

It wasn't quite that fast for them -- a couple of weeks, I think, until they were headlong in a serious relationship. Having thought about it some more, I think cultural factors, as well as personal history, play a pretty major role. If you've been hurt in the past in relationships, for example, you're going to be slower to open up. And if you have little to no experience with members of your dual type, it may take longer to realize what you've found, especially if you're unfamiliar with socionics. Plus, the conditions have to be right -- one-on-one communication for a significant length of time, to give the Duality time to do its thing.

Still, even given all that, I have an intuitive feeling that Irrational types would tend to form relationships quicker. However, there's not really any way to substantiate that without a big survey.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[ghost of forum past]

Bump.

Might be five years late, but I have experienced relatively recently (and surpassed) stages 1, 3, & 2 (in that order) with a confirmed ESE. Stages 4 and 5 are ongoing.

[Suz]

In this thread, there was an interesting discussion on the stages that Duality goes through, and I'm interested in looking at it from a specifically Alpha angle. For those of you who have had experience with some or all of these stages of Dualization, in what order did they play out, and in what way? I'm curious if there's any consistent pattern for the different types and dual pairs, as the article suggests. I'm especially interested in getting an ESE perspective on this, if there happens to be any of them hanging around here, say after having returned from a long absence...

I'll post my own (somewhat limited) experiences below.



For my part, I've known at least four ESEs with whom I've experienced at least a few of these stages of Duality: a choir instructor of mine, an aunt, a former co-worker, and a girl from church. For whatever reason, they're all female. Perhaps attraction plays a role, even in cases where there is clearly no possibility of or desire for a pairing? I've also known some other ESEs with whom I've never been close enough to experience any of these stages.

In my experience, from a distance the ESE appears admirable and fun, but too busy and popular to pay any attention to me. After interacting a bit, however, the first stage to appear is Stage 3 -- a strange feeling of safety, like this person is "on my side". I feel like I know and understand this person in a way that nobody else seems to. I've never had the "Where do I know you from" feeling of confusion that Stage 2 describes, but there is this peculiar feeling of understanding -- like I can just glance at this person and know what she's thinking, or if she's struggling to explain something, I immediately understand and can finish explaining for her. There's this subtle "us against the world" feeling, well before the relationship is remotely close enough to warrant it.

The next stage to appear, I think, is Stage 7, the leveling of Dual energy. This seems to happen after somewhat longer periods of one-on-one or mostly one-on-one interaction, say 5-10 minutes or more. It's this relaxed feeling of calmness and stillness, where I no longer feel internally stretched and drained from the stress of social interaction and Super-Ego-related worry. I feel stronger and more able to take on the world.

This is followed naturally by Stage 5, the feeling of internal joy. I've reached this stage with only two of the four ESEs under consideration. It's pretty great. I've been known to dance a jig afterwards.

Somewhere in there, Stage 1 occurs -- the sensation of a necessity to meet again. It's subtle at first, but it grows stronger and stronger, until eventually, at some point after the internal joy thing, it turns into Stage 4, the feeling of the "impossibility" of being separated even for a short time. I've experienced this with only one ESE, and it's been quite unpleasant, as the feeling of separation being impossible even for a short time does not actually prevent separation, even for a long time. Also, despite what the article says, it seems that this "impossibility" is not necessarily simultaneous or equal in both duals. Ah, woe is me.

I haven't really experienced stages 6 or 8 in any significant way, so far.

So yeah, I'm particularly interested in how ESEs experience all this, since as an LII I find it nearly impossible to tell what other people are really feeling. I'm also interested in how ILE and SEI experiences compare -- while there's obviously a personal element to my interest in all this, I am also genuinely interested in the underlying mechanisms. So what say you?

I think im experiencing it now...and in the same exact order you described. Im in stage 4 now, i dont know if the other person is or not, and its so true how it gets painful and unpleasant when separation cant be avoided. It would help if mutual feelings could be admitted to, so that inclusive plans can be made, but i cant be totally sure its mutual at this point and i dont want to interfere with his job hunting process that preceded my meeting him, which might take him to a far away place in a few months, so I cannot let him know with words how i feel, but i hope ive been making it sufficiently clear via body language,etc, its really the only thing i can do right now

[Adam Strange]

^Dat Ne. This is why ILE's don't have GF's until they are past 40.

[Suz]

Just to update everyone, things didn't work out with that individual from my post in Nov 2015. He was attracted to me as a very good platonic friend whereas I was attracted in a different way. Whether it was duality or not - I think maybe it still was, which is why there was an ease, a closeness, and an attraction, the latter just happened to be of a different variety. Duality should not be synonymous with sexual attraction.

[Adam Strange]

Just to update everyone, things didn't work out with that individual from my post in Nov 2015. He was attracted to me as a very good platonic friend whereas I was attracted in a different way. Whether it was duality or not - I think maybe it still was, which is why there was an ease, a closeness, and an attraction, the latter just happened to be of a different variety. Duality should not be synonymous with sexual attraction.

Sorry to hear that, @Suz.

You'll find a better guy soon.