Duals you don't like

[Creepy-Cyclops]

There seems to be a lot of talk about duality being the greatest thing. Of course it is a key thing of socionics and something most people with interest in socionics would aspire to it (a dual relation).

However, people being people, I don't think it is a given that we will get on with all duals we meet.

It would be interesting to hear some of the negative stories, maybe even to balance it out and here full side of things.

I'd be interested if anyone would like to talk about duals they've met, interacted with irl where they've not got on, not clicked.

Could be anything from lifestyle differences, personality differences, not noticing you or any other sort of issues.

[Jarno]

There seems to be a lot of talk about duality being the greatest thing. Of course it is a key thing of socionics and something most people with interest in socionics would aspire to it (a dual relation).

However, people being people, I don't think it is a given that we will get on with all duals we meet.

It would be interesting to hear some of the negative stories, maybe even to balance it out and here full side of things.

I'd be interested if anyone would like to talk about duals they've met, interacted with irl where they've not got on, not clicked.

Could be anything from lifestyle differences, personality differences, not noticing you or any other sort of issues.

I once openend a same thread about duals more often not getting along. It's only when duals interact closely with eachother that the chemistry does it's work. But when reading or looking at a distance to a dual etc, it's rather the opposite.

I've also read it in a duality article, when duals interact together everything is fine, but when they look how the dual interacts with others, you are rather annoyed by them. Probably because they have such a strange/opposite personality. It's only at close distance that you come to appreciate them.

[Suz]

I once openend a same thread about duals more often not getting along. It's only when duals interact closely with eachother that the chemistry does it's work. But when reading or looking at a distance to a dual etc, it's rather the opposite.

I've also read it in a duality article, when duals interact together everything is fine, but when they look how the dual interacts with others, you are rather annoyed by them. Probably because they have such a strange/opposite personality. It's only at close distance that you come to appreciate them.

Rang true for me.

Good question btw, Cyclops!! I am interested in hearing the answers as well.

[redbaron]

I don't have any either. but I haven't known that many in my life. There was one SLE guy in high school who was always reeeally nice to me but I found him too loud around other people and I shied away from that. Plus I didn't want him hitting on me so I gave him no encouragement. He was too short and I wasn't physically attracted to him. So it wasn't that I didn't LIKE him, just that I wasn't interested in dating him and didn't want him interested in me.

[Suz]

Don't have any. Even in situations where most people would be ticked off, I take what is said in a positive way. However, that's just me so far. I have seen instances where it does not work out. But even in those cases, the dual tends to be able to see things from the other person's viewpoint and not think they are a totally rotten person, usually. Which I find hilarious when it comes from the same people who think everyone else is rotten to the bone because they are not in their quadra, knowing nothing of socionics.

Well this is true for me too, but only after i'd worked closely with my dual for a while and the chemistry had already happened.

Previous to that, since I'd first met him, I thought of him as a party-boy jock who drank a lot with his jock friends, and liked to play with girls much younger than him, and so I didn't care to give him a second look. LITTLE DID I KNOW. . .

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I once openend a same thread about duals more often not getting along. It's only when duals interact closely with eachother that the chemistry does it's work. But when reading or looking at a distance to a dual etc, it's rather the opposite.

I've also read it in a duality article, when duals interact together everything is fine,but when they look how the dual interacts with others, you are rather annoyed by them. Probably because they have such a strange/opposite personality. It's only at close distance that you come to appreciate them.

This is very good point. I used to work with a dual before and the way she would be with others was irritating. Once or twice I mentioned it to her, but when we spoke things seemed clearer. It was also interesting how that, when I spoke to her about it, the issue also dissolved quite easily (where as with other relations, it would maybe have been more difficult to resolve).

Interesting post, I wonder, do you have a link or source of that article, so that I could read it? The person seems to know what they are talking about.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

If I meet a dual I don't mesh with, it feels neutral and not really negative. Like, a dual that doesn't speak english.

[Beautiful sky]

There seems to be a lot of talk about duality being the greatest thing. Of course it is a key thing of socionics and something most people with interest in socionics would aspire to it (a dual relation).

However, people being people, I don't think it is a given that we will get on with all duals we meet.

It would be interesting to hear some of the negative stories, maybe even to balance it out and here full side of things.

I'd be interested if anyone would like to talk about duals they've met, interacted with irl where they've not got on, not clicked.

Could be anything from lifestyle differences, personality differences, not noticing you or any other sort of issues.

Well the duals that I have met and I have met many, really do find me physically attractive, so no problems there. The only problem is that I am a one man's kinda woman, so monogamous relationship is best for me, but my duals really enjoy a lot of women and so do not want to commit to me. The connection is incredible to say the least; they say what I am thinking and I say what they are thinking.

They "don't notice me" at first (I suppose if they really were drunk they would have no problem in approaching me); they want me to approach them. At first this puzzled me, because I come from the tradition that men approach women, but once I learned that that was something that society thought us I quickly changed my game and got lots of positive results. I believe that when duals eventually network together, many of the learn societal rules will fall away because every dual pair has a different interaction requirement and we need to unlearn some of the “ideal” societal rules that we have learned.

There hasn't been a single time that I have met a dual and not gotten along with them wonderfully.

Another problem we had was an issue of trust; we both have similar need to trust and be proven that we can trust and so there is a little tension here. I have never been asked by a man to see my place, they want to see where I live on the first date, that is a little scary for a single woman in the city, but I found out that this is because they want to make sure that I don't live with anyone else, that they want to see for themselves that I am for real.

To truly understand duality you have to look at it as an egg that has been split into two parts; the mind of one needs the other to complete it and they look different apart, but together they make a whole; sexually they are a complete match as well-as in they fit together physically perfectly like a whole

[FDG]

Well, I had an ESI girlfriend with Borderline Personality disorder. It wouldn't be exact to say that I didn't like her, but it was basically impossible to get along with her over an extended period of time.

And eh, dunno, but most of the duals I have interacted one-on-one seem to kind of understand immediately that there's a potential sparkle between us. Sometimes I think that feeling types might not really need socionics to know who are their duals.

[redbaron]

Well, I had an ESI girlfriend with Borderline Personality disorder. It wouldn't be exact to say that I didn't like her, but it was basically impossible to get along with her over an extended period of time.

And eh, dunno, but most of the duals I have interacted one-on-one seem to kind of understand immediately that there's a potential sparkle between us. Sometimes I think that feeling types might not really need socionics to know who are their duals.

if only that were true across the board...

[jewels]

there have been things that have bothered me about various duals. I still "liked" them, but was still bothered.

Like a girl who had really low moral character. She'd use guys for rent money/gifts/trips, etc. And she'd "forget" she was in a relationship and hit on other guys within her boyfriends view, pissing him off. And then she'd kinda not care she made him mad.

I met a couple of guys who said they were ISTps who were really feminine and complained a lot, like little princesses. I don't know if they were ISTps for sure, but it wasn't a vibe where I wanted to date them for sure. One interrupted me to tell me his back was a teeny bit sore. (weird).

And there was a player guy who was an ISTp and his mannerisms made him look like he thought he was a stud, and it was a turnoff. He'd have a couple of girlfriends at a time, taking one on a trip, and the other out to dinner the next day. I didn't like that about him and didn't talk to him much because of that. He seemed really shifty/shady.

I really liked another one, but he was really self-centered. It was all about him. His wife had just divorced him and I could kinda see why.

And another guy was really nice but kind of boring. He didn't have any hobbies or interests and really just hung out w/ his mom and watched TV most of the time.

My bf now is great, but he will say really offensive things sometimes without realizing how hurtful they are. Like "you're not special. You're just normal." Or "I wonder if I'm attracted to you still." (ouch). Or "you probably don't have cancer. I don't know why you're so worried about getting the results back." Or "If I tell her to stop hitting on me in front of you, it might make her feel awkward or uncomfortable." (uh, what about me?)

So yeah, a lot of things aren't type related I am realizing

[redbaron]

My bf now is great, but he will say really offensive things sometimes without realizing how hurtful they are. Like "you're not special. You're just normal." Or "I wonder if I'm attracted to you still." (ouch). Or "you probably don't have cancer. I don't know why you're so worried about getting the results back." Or "If I tell her to stop hitting on me in front of you, it might make her feel awkward or uncomfortable." (uh, what about me?)

So yeah, a lot of things aren't type related I am realizing

Agreed.

[FDG]

My bf now is great, but he will say really offensive things sometimes without realizing how hurtful they are. Like "you're not special. You're just normal." Or "I wonder if I'm attracted to you still." (ouch). Or "you probably don't have cancer. I don't know why you're so worried about getting the results back." Or "If I tell her to stop hitting on me in front of you, it might make her feel awkward or uncomfortable." (uh, what about me?)

LOL sometimes Fe PoLR is just hilarious hahaha

[Jarno]

Sometimes I think that feeling types might not really need socionics to know who are their duals.

maybe because your duals are Fi leading types, immediate aware of the relationship.

My dual the ESFp is at first more interested in how I look and dress. Though the sometimes seem to be attracted to introvertedness. The more autistic you look the more interesting you become.

[Suz]

maybe because your duals are Fi leading types, immediate aware of the relationship.

My dual the ESFp is at first more interested in how I look and dress. Though the sometimes seem to be attracted to introvertedness. The more autistic you look the more interesting you become.

[Jarno]

Interesting post, I wonder, do you have a link or source of that article, so that I could read it? The person seems to know what they are talking about.

I don't know where I read it, probable a babelfish translation of some russian site.

Most people only know Ganin's relationship descriptions and that's it. But there is a lot of interesting russian stuff that goes into more and different details.

[tcaudilllg]

If it is necessary to close psychological distance with a dual, then if the dual in question refuses to close that distance then duality will never occur. In my experience, character disorders are the primary reason for this continued distance.

[Solidad]

If it is necessary to close psychological distance with a dual, then if the dual in question refuses to close that distance then duality will never occur. In my experience, character disorders are the primary reason for this continued distance.

that's poignant!

"character disorders" peaks my interest especially -

How is that different from personality dissorder NPD, BPD, etc...?

-

Regarding this topic I wrote my experience with a dual on a recent Delta thread (which was rather difficult & painful at the time) ... in which the long run shows the worth of the relationship ...even as distant friends ...

IMO - the key is context --

if you are in an easy context...sometimes dual doesn't matter as much

in a dangerous environment... the importance of dual becomes obvious!

[silverchris9]

I've probably met SLEs I didn't like before, when I was too bookish or shy or whatever. In fact, some of the SLEs in high school probably bullied(ish)/made fun of me. But I was never particularly annoyed by that. I was significantly more annoyed by stupidity than SLE-dom. SLEs usually aren't stupid (or don't come off as stupid to me). In fact, now that I think about it, I probably could've been friends with some of the jocks who were beta if I'd been a little less goody-two-shoes, and if we'd had a little more in common (and by "a little more" I mean "anything besides the classes I was forced to take with them").

Actually, high school is a good example of that whole duality from a distance not working, because many of the people who were most likely to have been SLEs were the most unpleasant to me in high school, because from a distance, SLEs can seem sort of random and as though they just do shit for the sake of doing it, which I thought was annoying and stupid, but close up, some of those same qualities can be more positive.

Besides people who might have been SLE in high school (and I'm sure at least one or two of them were, although I couldn't think of who, besides the one I still hang out with), I think I've gotten along with every SLE I've met and/or gotten close to, and I've certainly liked them all, even if I never get close to them.

[jughead]

who's been in a dangerous environment....soldiers anyone?

[electric sheep]

I think the ILEs I don't like fall mostly under the 7w6 variety. They just need so much attention and they never stop joking around, I just end up having to shut them up in a no-so-gentle way. I much prefer the 7w8s.

[crazedrat]

I've probably met SLEs I didn't like before, when I was too bookish or shy or whatever. In fact, some of the SLEs in high school probably bullied(ish)/made fun of me. But I was never particularly annoyed by that. I was significantly more annoyed by stupidity than SLE-dom. SLEs usually aren't stupid (or don't come off as stupid to me). In fact, now that I think about it, I probably could've been friends with some of the jocks who were beta if I'd been a little less goody-two-shoes, and if we'd had a little more in common (and by "a little more" I mean "anything besides the classes I was forced to take with them").

Actually, high school is a good example of that whole duality from a distance not working, because many of the people who were most likely to have been SLEs were the most unpleasant to me in high school, because from a distance, SLEs can seem sort of random and as though they just do shit for the sake of doing it, which I thought was annoying and stupid, but close up, some of those same qualities can be more positive.

Besides people who might have been SLE in high school (and I'm sure at least one or two of them were, although I couldn't think of who, besides the one I still hang out with), I think I've gotten along with every SLE I've met and/or gotten close to, and I've certainly liked them all, even if I never get close to them.

don't forget the SLIs and LSEs of highschool. They were the worst kind, because you couldn't ignore them as easily. They would fuck with you and you would feel really attacked. (I beat up one in a rage once). With SLI it's all just sort of a joke which you can shrug off and look them right back in the eye, even use some sarcasm or irony on them. (LSE won't get the sarcasm or irony and will ignore it, infact will probably use it as an opportunity to inflict more damage on you)

[redbaron]

I've probably met SLEs I didn't like before, when I was too bookish or shy or whatever. In fact, some of the SLEs in high school probably bullied(ish)/made fun of me. But I was never particularly annoyed by that. I was significantly more annoyed by stupidity than SLE-dom. SLEs usually aren't stupid (or don't come off as stupid to me). In fact, now that I think about it, I probably could've been friends with some of the jocks who were beta if I'd been a little less goody-two-shoes, and if we'd had a little more in common (and by "a little more" I mean "anything besides the classes I was forced to take with them").

Actually, high school is a good example of that whole duality from a distance not working, because many of the people who were most likely to have been SLEs were the most unpleasant to me in high school, because from a distance, SLEs can seem sort of random and as though they just do shit for the sake of doing it, which I thought was annoying and stupid, but close up, some of those same qualities can be more positive.

Besides people who might have been SLE in high school (and I'm sure at least one or two of them were, although I couldn't think of who, besides the one I still hang out with), I think I've gotten along with every SLE I've met and/or gotten close to, and I've certainly liked them all, even if I never get close to them.

I had the exact same experience in high school. And I was goody-two-shoes too!

[redbaron]

if you are in an easy context...sometimes dual doesn't matter as much

in a dangerous environment... the importance of dual becomes obvious!

I agree with this. When there are no challenges, duality doesn't present such a benefit. But when there's something to accomplish or achieve or pursue, duality makes those things easier and even possible. Everything seems possible. Like there's nothing you can't do.

[silverchris9]

don't forget the SLIs and LSEs of highschool. They were the worst kind, because you couldn't ignore them as easily. They would fuck with you and you would feel really attacked. (I beat up one in a rage once). With SLI it's all just sort of a joke which you can shrug off and look them right back in the eye, even use some sarcasm or irony on them. (LSE won't get the sarcasm or irony and will ignore it, infact will probably use it as an opportunity to inflict more damage on you)

True. I need to figure out which was which actually. Hmmm... now I can think of one who could be an SLI, if he follows your description. We should make a high school jackass type guide.

[Trevor]

I don't like when my duals are overtly happy. I prefer to have the upper hand in terms of happiness. Why can't I have the upper hand?

[tiny_dancer]

You want to be happier than an ESE? Um, good luck with that one. I can't even remotely approach that energy level.

[Slacker]

You want to be happier than an ESE? Um, good luck with that one. I can't even remotely approach that energy level.

LOL

I don't think I've met an SLI I haven't gotten along with at least to some extent, but certainly I couldn't have a realtionship like I have with my husband with any SLI. There are a lot of other factors involved in happy relationships. I'm trying to imagine a really religious closed-midned judgemental controlling SLI. If I find one, we won't get along.

[Ave]

Everytime a dual relationship has failed for me its been in the very beginning of the relationship. After that point gets by, we usually get along fine.

[shakealittle]

Some duals stand out more than others. I prefer opposite sex duals though, get along with them better. I don't feel like I can 'Se' as much with the girls and feel more competition with them.

[redbaron]

Some duals stand out more than others. I prefer opposite sex duals though, get along with them better. I don't feel like I can 'Se' as much with the girls and feel more competition with them.

I dunno. I may actually prefer same-sex duals. Maybe I just haven't known many SLE guys in real life.

[tcaudilllg]

that's poignant!

"character disorders" peaks my interest especially -

How is that different from personality dissorder NPD, BPD, etc...?

-

Regarding this topic I wrote my experience with a dual on a recent Delta thread (which was rather difficult & painful at the time) ... in which the long run shows the worth of the relationship ...even as distant friends ...

IMO - the key is context --

if you are in an easy context...sometimes dual doesn't matter as much

in a dangerous environment... the importance of dual becomes obvious!

That's the thing: things are easy enough these days, for most people, that people don't need duality in their lives. It's just a nice bonus.

[Beautiful sky]

The only duals I don't like are the ones who don't value my existance, and don't value human existance so just sleep around or f - around, or just, as I have been told before, want to see me "on occasion".