Ni-creative: Manipulative by nature? (ENTj & ENFj)

[Azeroffs]

I was thinking about this, and I don't mean in purposefully harmful or sinister way. It just seems that Ni-creatives usually act with a particular result in mind and so naturally act in a way to get people to do what they want or to get a certain response. It's similar to the way an Se-ego might act, but in a lot more subtle and round-a-bout way. I think this also ties in with Se-HA.

The difference with Ni-base is that they would likely focus on the way things are playing out and act only to alter the direction. Ni-creative focuses on the results of their actions instead of seeing how chains of events flow independent of particular actions. Ni-base may be manipulative as well; however, they are more likely to be apathetic because they perceive things to be working out fine the way they are going.

It has been said before that EIE has purposeful emotions, and I think this in itself implies a degree of manipulative tendencies. LIE, by contrast, would be more explicit in their actions, but their motives may be just as hidden.

[tcaudilllg]

Well they like to coerce people to make choices, don't they? (the EIEs, anyway)

I suppose LIEs would be interested in... controlling outcomes.

[Azeroffs]

I just thought it was interesting that I was accused of being manipulative. I can see how it might come off that way.

[Azeroffs]

I think this might be most obvious in intimate relationships because of the mind games that are often involved, like it or not.

[xixi]

i think so. although, 'manipulative' has rather negative connotations of being self-serving, and i don't think that most ENTj's and ENFj's are selfish like that...

[matilda]

i think so. although, 'manipulative' has rather negative connotations of being self-serving, and i don't think that most ENTj's and ENFj's are selfish like that...

i think they are. and 'self-serving' is not entirely negative. are we not all selfish?

[redbaron]

I was thinking about this, and I don't mean in purposefully harmful or sinister way. It just seems that Ni-creatives usually act with a particular result in mind and so naturally act in a way to get people to do what they want or to get a certain response. It's similar to the way an Se-ego might act, but in a lot more subtle and round-a-bout way. I think this also ties in with Se-HA.

The difference with Ni-base is that they would likely focus on the way things are playing out and act only to alter the direction. Ni-creative focuses on the results of their actions instead of seeing how chains of events flow independent of particular actions. Ni-base may be manipulative as well; however, they are more likely to be apathetic because they perceive things to be working out fine the way they are going.

It has been said before that EIE has purposeful emotions, and I think this in itself implies a degree of manipulative tendencies. LIE, by contrast, would be more explicit in their actions, but their motives may be just as hidden.

This seems totally right to me and in line with my experience.

[Gilly]

There is some really good stuff in this thread for people who might be confused about Ni.

[Park]

WTF are you doing here, Gilly. You ain't no Ni creative.

[Gilly]

WTF are you doing here, Gilly. You ain't no Ni creative.

o.o what am I?

[Park]

o.o what am I?

A tall Bostonian.

[Slacker]

My parents are Ni creative and they are both on the controlling side. And I'm not just saying that because they're my parents.

[Gilly]

Oh. Ok.

[Park]

And an intuitive logical extratim.

[Gilly]

Yeah? Fi PoLR abound?

[Park]

Yeah? Fi PoLR abound?

Yeah, that wouldn't work. Let's stick to ENFj.

And let me reassure you, as long as you give me compliments and feed me Fi, you're in complete control.

[Gilly]

Yeah, that wouldn't work. Let's stick to ENFj.

And let me reassure you, as long as you give me compliments and feed me Fi, you're in complete control.

Lmao.

Don't worry, my dad is a priest and I have a huge Jesus complex; having people ask for my help is, well, just part of the equation.

[Park]

Lmao.

Don't worry, my dad is a priest and I have a huge Jesus complex; having people ask for my help is, well, just part of the equation.

Sweet. [Socionics Trivia:] Did you know that Jesus was an ENFj?

[Gilly]

Nah probably ESI or perhaps EII from what I've read in the Bible.

The Miltonian Satan is Beta extrovert as fuck.

[Slacker]

Jesus is Abbie's dual.

[Park]

You guys screw up my jokes.

[Gilly]

:/

[PussyInASarcophagus]

Based invisible hand LIE

[Clarke]

I was thinking about this, and I don't mean in purposefully harmful or sinister way. It just seems that Ni-creatives usually act with a particular result in mind and so naturally act in a way to get people to do what they want or to get a certain response. It's similar to the way an Se-ego might act, but in a lot more subtle and round-a-bout way. I think this also ties in with Se-HA.

The difference with Ni-base is that they would likely focus on the way things are playing out and act only to alter the direction. Ni-creative focuses on the results of their actions instead of seeing how chains of events flow independent of particular actions. Ni-base may be manipulative as well; however, they are more likely to be apathetic because they perceive things to be working out fine the way they are going.

It has been said before that EIE has purposeful emotions, and I think this in itself implies a degree of manipulative tendencies. LIE, by contrast, would be more explicit in their actions, but their motives may be just as hidden.

There have been descriptions that call LIE's "Jack the Exploiter". Whoever gave them that title seemed to perceive LIE's as being manipulative for some reason.

I think that with Ni base, you might have a situation where the person thinks of a certain outcome, and then thinks "how can I alter this outcome"? The flow of information is going from Ni to a judgement function, such as Te. With Ni creative, on the other hand, you would probably have a situation where the person thinks of a certain problem and then thinks "how can I fix this problem?" with Ni. In that case, Ni would be the vision that allows them to fix the problem related to the leading function. The flow of information would be going from something like Te to Ni.

I don't think this would make xIE's seem manipulative by itself. I think that the manipulative part of xIE's might actually be related to their strategic dichotomy. IxI's don't make determined goals, therefore they don't have a major reason to steer resources (such as people) towards those goals. xIE's make goals, therefore for the goals to be effective, they need to steer resources (people) towards them.

They might resemble Se base because Se base types (SxE's) are also strategic.

I guess it's also possible that the flow of information causes the types to be manipulative. I would guess that maybe it's because the base functions are extroverted by nature, and therefore seek to alter the external world.

[Metamorph]

Is Si-creative violent by nature?

[Clarke]

Is Si-creative violent by nature?

That sounds like it would be something related to Se. If anything, Si seems like it would want peace.

Maybe having Si creative makes you show Se in an odd way. Maybe they're being violent as a demonstration. Or because of some kind of insecurity.

[Metamorph]

That sounds like it would be something related to Se. If anything, Si seems like it would want peace.

Maybe having Si creative makes you show Se in an odd way. Maybe they're being violent as a demonstration. Or because of some kind of insecurity.

Si-creative has Se-demo, which I assume would be the violent part like the Ne-demo of Ni-creatives would be the manipulative part.

[The Reality Denialist]

AFAIK, it is good at pointing out likely vagueness in the horizon. You either pick the good parts or not.