Lady Gaga

[jessica129]

But I don't see how you can base someone's personality on how they are when they're performing. She comes across completely different in interviews. In interviews she seems very subdued and "normal". Contrast that with some of her music videos and it doesn't even seem to be the same person. How can you possibly get an accurate type when she's playing two different personas? I know if I were ever in the public eye, i'd probobly come across a lot differently than how I am amongst friends and family. And this, my friends, is why your type does not matter.

[xyz]

Kids: Keep in mind that interviewing, shows, performances, et al... all fall under the "IT'S THEIR JOB" umbrella.

[717495]

I mean, think about it. ESFp has the loudest base function, the most talkative club and the loudest temperament. If a person's being soft-spoken isn't an argument against this type, you might aswell throw all of socioncs out of the window.

That's a bit harsh actually. I wouldn't jump to those conclusions.

Gaga is flamboyant in a Fe way, while I don't get that from Britney. Not only that; Gaga is an artist, Britney is pure celebrity with an artist label.

This is really unconvincing, as well as others to say Britney Spears is an Fe type. It really just does not add together in the slightest.

[jewels]

I still don't see any reason for her not being ESTp. The interviews I've seen, yeah, she can come across as more soft/reflective, but so can all ESTps when you get them talking. I just don't see her as anything else with her being comfortable w/ creating (or having created for her), the Lady Gaga "role" that she plays.

She also talks in a little over-enunciated accent thing at times, the way Madonna does sometimes.

I don't see how anything but ESTp could be her type:

[Blue Moon]

Lady Gaga is a typical girl or if to say more precisely.
She doesn't demonstrate anything more or less than a typical IEI does.
Perfomances, temperaments or characters are not the objects of socionics.

[jessica129]

I don't see how anything but ESTp could be her type: YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

She just gained a few more awesomeness points with that interview.

[Gilly]

"That's a ridiculous question. I wouldn't give up any of them. I'd cut my leg off."

Jesus christ, this bitch is awesome. She's really just fucking with people.

[crazedrat]

I actually really like her. She's the kind of girl I could get along with very well I think.

[Gilly]

Yeah, same. I'm starting to think she's a Beta NF.

[silverchris9]

Lady gaga is extraordinarily odd. After watching that video I'd be surprised if she wasn't an IEI-Ni. The writing on "Bad Romance" is surprisingly good. I don't like her singing or her melody lines, except maybe poker face. She does a wonderful job of explaining her crazy, but I think that the crazy supersedes the explanation (although she probably forces herself to believe the explanation).

Also, 'poker face' is highly ironic, since generally poker faces are unusually expressionless, whereas lady gaga achieves the same effect (impossible to discern her inner world) by being too expressive.

[717495]

I'd be surprized if she wasn't an SEE, seeing as though she is probably an SEE. But I'm enthralled to see you guys have found one you like.

[silverchris9]

Why do you think SEE? I saw the argument about Te, but I'm unclear on what you mean by this.

[717495]

Well by my estimation, she is very limited in Fe. She instead uses Te to express the reality of her situation, through making sure the facts are accurate and that she carefully and reasonably represents herself with no embellishment that would stray from the truth, desiring a simple and direct way, and she relies on it despite my critique. She is in fact very straight-foward and assuring with this. She also has a very Se lifestyle, perhaps in some sense similar to EIE or SLE, which are typings I have thought about, but disregarded based on the recognition that she however appears on the surface to have a beta mentality and look as they may come, the essence of her does not remind me of any EIE, SLE or IEI I know. She does not have any kind of will to show her true emotional state, instead taking on an artist role, emphasizing glamour, fashion and other Se aspects with her music, and her free expression via a tendency to rely on Te becomes more and more clear upon watching her. She is quite on par with Fi creatives, the softness and carefulness where emotional expression is needed, looking altogether much more limiting and less suited for beta as I hope you will eventually recognize, and that which will be made more clear by interviews to come, and overall embodying a stereotypical SEE, one who seeks Te. The themes she touches up on that I have been seeing are just as common to SEE as they are alpha, beta or delta ethical types, however the way she does it is entirely significant.

[Gilly]

You are either very limited in your conception of how Fe manifests, or totally misunderstand what Fe is supposed to mean.

[717495]

That embellishment is wrong, but leaning toward a fair assumption that I don't really understand Fe as I see it. However I see a stark difference between Fe people and someone like Lady GaGa, one that you can't possibly make clear just by emphasizing beta "themes," unless they have to do with the basics of Socionics and not another highly regarded embellishment, something that you would label as a "clear conception". Which in turn resembles something fairly simple to me too, however aside from the point.

[Gilly]

"Themes" aren't my reason for typing her Beta; it's her gaze, her overall demeanor, the way she talks about herself. I could see SEE, but they are typically more expressive, more energetic than she seems. I would think SLE before SEE.

[krieger]

Let's remember Britney is not ESFp, she is ISFp.

I was thinking that too.

Though my opinion is not strong about her. But I think general consensus is also that she is ISFP

For the record: she is typed as ESFp on socionics.us.

Other ESFps that have a completely different way of speaking from Lady Gaga:

Robbie Williams:


Jack Nicholson:


Sylvester Stallone:


Elizabeth Taylor:


Scarlett Johansson


All very confident speakers that are hard to subdue in coversation because they constantly take control of the interview. It's in a lot of ways opposite to what Lady Gaga is like in the interviews shown so far.

[jewels]

I thought Scarlett was ISFp. Sly I can see as ESFp.

I think Shakira is a good example of a female ESFp singer. You can feel a lot of Fi coming off of her, which is not at all the case with Lady Gaga. I see more similarities between Liz Taylor and Shakria than with Lady Gaga.

I don't see anything similar between Lady Gaga and Liz Taylor or Shakira, or even Sly Stalone. I feel like Lady Gaga might hurt Sly's feelings if you got them in a room together.

[silverchris9]

Well by my estimation, she is very limited in Fe. She instead uses Te to express the reality of her situation, through making sure the facts are accurate and that she carefully and reasonably represents herself with no embellishment that would stray from the truth, desiring a simple and direct way, and she relies on it despite my critique. She is in fact very straight-foward and assuring with this. She also has a very Se lifestyle, perhaps in some sense similar to EIE or SLE, which are typings I have thought about, but disregarded based on the recognition that she however appears on the surface to have a beta mentality and look as they may come, the essence of her does not remind me of any EIE, SLE or IEI I know. She does not have any kind of will to show her true emotional state, instead taking on an artist role, emphasizing glamour, fashion and other Se aspects with her music, and her free expression via a tendency to rely on Te becomes more and more clear upon watching her. She is quite on par with Fi creatives, the softness and carefulness where emotional expression is needed, looking altogether much more limiting and less suited for beta as I hope you will eventually recognize, and that which will be made more clear by interviews to come, and overall embodying a stereotypical SEE, one who seeks Te. The themes she touches up on that I have been seeing are just as common to SEE as they are alpha, beta or delta ethical types, however the way she does it is entirely significant.

She does not have any kind of will to show her true emotional state,

I'm not really in the mood for in-depth analysis right now, but I just want to point out that I can see one way in which this would appear to be true, and I assure you that if you're basing that opinion off what I think you are, this behaving is entirely in keeping with IEIs. I just know 'cause I am one. She does want to show her true emotional state... she just... also doesn't. I'm the same way. I see Fe in her insofar as she likes to keep a high emotional atmosphere when possible (I understand that "high" as used here is a metaphor but I hope you understand what I mean), but as in an IEI, this is subservient to the communication of her Ni-vision about the world.

[Singu]

I've posted something about her type in some other thread... Anyway, I think that she is a Beta NF, and I think that she is an IEI.

Why? Well, here are some basic observations of her:

1. She is incredibly soft-spoken, at least in interviews. She just comes across as being... "soft", and subdued. I think that this is related to Introversion, more than anything.
2. She often likes to explain the hidden "meanings" behind her songs, which I think is Ni.
3. She has two very contrasting personas, one for her "stage" persona, and one for her private life which comes across in her interviews (where she's rather more "normal" and subdued). She acts completely wild and crazy when she's performing, yet in interviews she comes across as incredibly subdued, "normal", and even thoughtful. When she's performing, she tends to be very theatrical and dramatic.
4. She likes to mess with her audience, either by shocking them through her performance or answering certain questions withs nonsensical answers or going along with certain rumors and jokes about her (like she once twittered that she had a "hermy cock"... which was one of the rumors about her.) She doesn't seem like someone who takes things very seriously, and keeps things fairly light and jokey. In a way, she takes a lot of social risks. She also likes to keep people guessing ("You won't know the real Gaga".)
5. She claims that she isn't like anybody else, and that she wants to be "unique", which I think is clearly a Fe & E4 thing.

Some other interesting things about her:

"The great thing about Gaga is she always want to push for the most extreme option," (this is typically a Beta attitude...) Card said. "She's brave enough to let herself be a canvas for a designer to go and really express themselves. Nothing is off limits! With Rihanna and Beyoncé there is an end result of desirability and unattainable sexiness, whereas Gaga is a really interesting bridge between the desirable and the grotesque. She's not at all worried about looking ridiculous or hideous; actually, I think she thrives off it." (This is likely a Victimized attitude, especially Beta Ni. E.g. someone like Marilyn Manson)

"The idea is, you are your image, you are who you see yourself to be," she said. (This is Fe...) "It's iconography. Warhol and I both went to church when we were younger. That's how I see things. I don't want anyone to feel trapped by their own lives. That to me is more dangerous than anything."

Frank talk with Lady Gaga -- latimes.com

P.S. I think that this whole "comparison"-typing is almost completely useless, because they all could be different types.

[717495]

Yeah total Beta attitude; she's a stereotypical IEI if I've ever seen one.

[crazedrat]

yeah I think INFp-Fe. although ESFp-Se is still an interesting suggestion. From VI alone I'd have chosen ESFp. Hard to tell between the two. I'd have to see her being herself in a non interview environment to tell better, I think. The confusion comes from her obsession with (whatever the style and attitude of andy warhol is). It could account for her behaving more soft spoken and neutral as a performing statement (If you've seen any of andy warhols paintings you will know this). It could also be interpreted as an ESFps obsession with surface perceptions. I know an ESFp interested in the same kind of culture and style. But the way she dramatizes things says Beta to me, so I go with INFp-Fe. ESFp-Se I think would be more ... comfortably extravagant. With Gaga, the surface perceptions are coupled with the grotesque in ways. But I really don't have enough solid experience with SEE-Se to know whether this is entirely unusual for them. So again.. I really am not sure.

This is a good example of ESFp-Se:

So the only way Lady Gaga could qualify is if the soft spoken side is a performing statement inspired by andy warhol (like the people sitting behind her which say nothing throughout the interview).
That said, there are some similarities between the two in tone of voice, pronunciation, and demeanor. But J-Lo is much, much more direct.
Also, for an alleged Ni type, gaga is an unusually good dancer.
Maybe someone could tell me if ESTp is possible for gaga. (I really dont know much about ESTps).

[Cheesy]

The SEE typing seems bizarre to me because the clearest thing about her is that she's Beta. She's EIE/IEI. The Fe/Ni is overwhelming. Right now I'm also inclined to think she's most likely IEI.

[HaveANiceLife]

She's LIE. [or EIE, but definitely Si Polr...]

[Gilly]

The first thing that strikes me about Lady Gaga is that she wants to be saved.

Does anyone else think it's uproariously ironic that she's famous, considering not only her message and the horrible dance routines, but just her general essence as a person?

For now I think she's Fe-IEI. I can't wait for her to meet Amy Winehouse in rehab.

[Gilly]

The Illuminati are so going to sacrifice this bitch. She has to die.

...or maybe that's just what she wants me to think. o.o;

[marooned]

where's the rest of this argument? Anyway I think it would be pretty impossible not to like her.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Meh celebrities. They just want all your money and attention and they aren't going to give anything real in return. Except for copying your own emotional states through entertainment. People tend to like that sort of thing. I say 'get over yourselves.'

it's disgusting. I mean seriously. I know Gilly and I see this shit but other people need to as well. it's like, if you were in pain and dying they'd just laugh and do throat fuck porn on your corpse IN REAL LIFE with their LA narcissistic boyfriends but like they'll mock you in a movie by pretending to have those emotions. But it's all for show. Then they make some like comment that 'the world needs to be more empathetic' WHAT THE FUCK EVER BITCH. God they are so pure evil like it makes me crack up. It's sort of humorous.

limousine liberalness is hahahahaha.

I'd get inside one and cut them up. I'd make them cry and show real human tears and be a victim. It will be so sweet.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

A celeb isn't to blame because a celebrity is just a projected illusion. Ultimately we make celebs cause they act in ways they know we'll enjoy and 'relate to' and we're the ones that break them by not letting them not have an ego, and identify with them so much we can't see the illusion anymore. So they need to suffer like us, or more than us, because they are that much more.

Celebrities know what everybody else wants but themselves. It's a tragic curse. They can be so popular for so many people cause they know to give us what we want in a way that makes them rich and famous cause they superficially seem so like selfless and caring. Though the real kicker is, that celebs have no true self-awareness, they don't exist in their own eyes. Only in the eyes of others. And when that's gone, what else is there? They have to retreat and recharge. They get addicted to therapy, to group homey places, to weird quiet introverts who can see them for real and understand them and just read them with their thoughts. But we end up falling in love with them and buying into their ruse a second time.

They want peace. Kill them to get peace! The Harvest!!!

(sorry I'm bored after my bike ride at the park)

We forget that these people aren't really our families or friends, it becomes so strong.

[marooned]

I mean seriously. I know Gilly and I see this shit but other people need to as well.

Right, because it's not like this isn't already a common view about celebrities. And definitely we should all turn to you (and Gilly) for the right way to see all this "shit".

Gah.

[felafel]

i don't care about her type, but this "performance" of one of her songs by C.Walken is priceless

[marooned]

i don't care about her type, but this "performance" of one of her songs by C.Walken is priceless

Lady Gaga writes her own lyrics.

Here, Oprah advocates for Gaga's and other celebrity rights to not be seen as non-self-aware image-addicted incredibly rich people:



(I don't have a point anymore, I just thought that picture was funny.)

[felafel]

Lady Gaga writes her own lyrics.

good for her (and that explains a lot
PS: NICE picture!

[Krig the Viking]

Lady Gaga writes her own lyrics.

Here, Oprah advocates for Gaga's and other celebrity rights to not be seen as non-self-aware image-addicted incredibly rich people:



(I don't have a point anymore, I just thought that picture was funny.)

Actually, I think the interesting thing about Gaga is that she seems quite self-aware. She seems to be well aware of just how ridiculous her act is, and she's doing it all deliberately, possibly as a parody of those who do it in that un-self-aware manner you mention. If that's the case, I can respect that.

But just because I respect it doesn't mean I enjoy it. Way too Se/Ni for me.

[pinkcanary]

...

[Kaze]

I dig her... and her music. I generally don't like dance pop though. I wonder if she'll ever move away from it. I mean, her influences range from Bowie, Queen, to Goth. A lot of theatrical rock.. I kind of see her tapping into some of that, but it'd be cool to see more.

Anyways, I agree, she's kind of trolling everyone.

[Kaze]

She doesn't write or choreograph her performances. She does not have any say in anything she does. She is a paid circus sideshow for the mainstream pop-culture.

A 'friend of the gays'? All of the media is 'a friend of the gays'.

Where exactly are getting any of this? Plenty of times in interviews (even some of the ones here, if you took the time to actually watch), she talks about being very hands on with her stage show and choreographing. In fact, she just upped and revamped her entire show not too long ago (while keeping the same songs), simply because she had the whim to do so. She even threw some of her own money into it.

She writes her own songs. She's had her own designs for some of the clothing she wears, and gets friends to make them.

Is she a paid circus sideshow? Yes. But it's her own doing.

Secondly, for the people saying she has a "SEE lifestyle", fwiw, there was a Jonathan Ross interview where she says she doesn't even like to go out much. Not even to clubs to dance, which she's good at, strangely.. She then started talking about just liking her close friends, and other than that, she gets caught up in work.

[edit] Actually, it's a funny interview, so I'll just put it here.

[marooned]

I see her as IEI btw.

[jewels]

I have an ESTp friend who everyone says is exactly like Lady Gaga. She's emotional (throws a lot of Fe and Se around), has that presence, and also definitely prefers a few close friends (despite being extremely outgoing). She also is picky about where she goes out and didn't used to go out at all in a different city, despite know all the places to go.

However, she's very sensitive and basically, comes across just like Lady Gaga.

So definitely ESTp.

[Kaze]

Maybe you're right. I don't think ESTp is necessarily uber sociable either (if I took myself into account).


On a sidenote, it's funny that socionics.com lists Jonathan Ross as an IEI. So if Gaga is SLE, then that'd be an odd example of IEI/SLE sociability factors that defy stereotype. And if she's IEI like he is, then she's a more withdrawn, weirder, maybe Enneagram 4w5 type.. while Jon is a flashier one.