Question for Ni egos

[717495]

i don't really want to. it's boring.

Good call.

[Blaze]

Good call.

i knew you'd see the light brothah

[Creepy-male]

at least. you give a nice, standard socionic interpretation...but you leave out the unconscious functions and their role. what human experience dimension do you give to your interpretations though? if you are not leading Ne, then how do you know exactly what it is like other than by listening to others who have it?

Well, from a theory perspective, your Ignoring function needs to be ignored because it's the major inhibiting factor in your Dual using their leading function, and thus the dual pair doing their thing. Remember there are three dynamics in Duality: relieving each other of inhibitions and insecurities, drawing out the other's natural strengths (which are your natural areas of neglect and self-pity) both by having need of them and fulfilling your Dual's super-id "I should get this stuff done first" needs.

Well, I think that applies more broadly. People need to be at ease with themselves to have functional relationships. Duals just have a natural talent for causing this to an extent... though, as Rick pointed out, there will always be a bit of solitary work around your super-ego even once your Dual has shown you the way.

*ducks out again*

[Azeroffs]

at least. you give a nice, standard socionic interpretation...but you leave out the unconscious functions and their role. what human experience dimension do you give to your interpretations though? if you are not leading Ne, then how do you know exactly what it is like other than by listening to others who have it?

I believe the demonstrative function has a strong role in our psyche. The ignoring function I find to be nearly absent. It is very well described by what the id-block is in that it understands information related to it, but finds it to be utterly worthless and/or the wrong way to go about doing anything.

[Blaze]

Well, from a theory perspective, your Ignoring function needs to be ignored because it's the major inhibiting factor in your Dual using their leading function, and thus the dual pair doing their thing. Remember there are three dynamics in Duality: relieving each other of inhibitions and insecurities, drawing out the other's natural strengths (which are your natural areas of neglect and self-pity) both by having need of them and fulfilling your Dual's super-id "I should get this stuff done first" needs.

Well, I think that applies more broadly. People need to be at ease with themselves to have functional relationships. Duals just have a natural talent for causing this to an extent... though, as Rick pointed out, there will always be a bit of solitary work around your super-ego even once your Dual has shown you the way.

*ducks out again*

nice! what if you are not around your dual? or don't have a dual in your life?

[Blaze]

I believe the demonstrative function has a strong role in our psyche. The ignoring function I find to be nearly absent. It is very well described by what the id-block is in that it understands information related to it, but finds it to be utterly worthless and/or the wrong way to go about doing anything.

.....on a practical every day basis. i agree absolutely. but i am not talking about practical everyday events.

[marooned]

I usually see Ne egos doing this. Forecasting, and what not.

I was wondering something similar to this just now... I've really been questioning a lot of the elements about Ni and the future. For one, I know that I am not given to just say what's going to happen in the future with some great conviction and certainty. I don't seem to even know to a large extent. I mean I'm more along the lines of just seeing things as they come along in my immediate vicinity... and I'm also aware of how to expand and contract what vicinity I'm watching (and when I "it would be wise" to look farther ahead)... for instance if my life has become overwhelming (which it has at times), the vicinity begins contracting as a sort of temporary measure to limit what I perceive as an overwhelming flood of outside things... and then it dialates again as the world feels less overwhelming. For things coming ahead I usually know my direction (a sort of "vector") and I have a sort of abstract fluid timeline (what, when) that is constantly changing or being dropped or whatever for various things (it's not just a single strand) and then all along it is a sort constantly changing/flowing map of possibilities with various likelihoods of coming into being... which when some of them "glow white" then all the sudden I've zeroed in on them... they are coming... and the other possibilities fall away. Though I may bring them back here and there if I start doubting what I see, which often happens if other people express something else with absolute certainty, to which I think "I wouldn't express something with that much certainty unless I flatout *knew* so why are they doing this? It may be very significant or total bs" and then I wait and consider it. I also know when the optimal times for certain actions are, though I may put off doing things at the optimal time and then have to settle with less optimal yet still okay times. Anyway I don't really think that much of any of this, it's just like duh, everyone has to navigate through their life... I mean we have to... it really is a requirement for human existence. So I mean of course we have to look ahead and avoid danger or over-developed "forcasts of doom".

Anyway I was wondering about my father though who was a person who frequently stated with total conviction what was going to happen in the future. According to my mom, he was right about projecting technology advancement, "startlingly so," but I was a child then and my mom can sort of re-write history sometimes and so I'm not sure. The projections that I remember were frequently a bit over the top. I remember when I was 4 or 5 I spent time asking my dad about "the future" and he would answer when we would be in space ships and when the planet would become uninhabitable due to acid rain... I mean the more I think about it, the more I think his future projections were rather lame. For his type, I've been going back and forth between Alpha SF and Beta NF essentially as I think the Fe was working. I usually lean more on the side of Beta NF though. But at one point I was wondering if these "future projections" were more of an Si/Ne related thing... because I mean, like in this vitamin supplement store near where I live, there's the insane ILE guy who runs the place (I think ILE is obvious, but you also would have to take my word for it) and he manages to get in like two or three proclamations about the future before you can get your foot out the door. He's a rather bizarre "true believer" sort of person.

I guess I don't even know about "predicting the future" and socionics in general. All I think I really do is just alter things as certain "bad" possibilities start getting stronger so that if they get too strong I'm not there "when they hit." It's not that complex. And it's also true that usually everyone else will clamour to declare "what will happen" so that it seems like overkill for me to do it as well.

[Blaze]

because I mean, like in this vitamin supplement store near where I live, there's the insane ILE guy who runs the place (I think ILE is obvious, but you also would have to take my word for it) and he manages to get in like two or three proclamations about the future before you can get your foot out the door. He's a rather bizarre "true believer" sort of person.

i imagine this is one ILE out of many. i don't think of myself this way at all.

i liked the way you explained Ni in the rest of your post. quite a conscious, step by step cognitive process.

[marooned]

i imagine this is one ILE out of many. i don't think of myself this way at all.

I know. I don't think that he was ILE because of that. I think that he's ILE and I noticed he does that. I also think he takes too many of his supplements (well, not really, but I couldn't help thinking it).

[Creepy-male]

nice! what if you are not around your dual? or don't have a dual in your life?

You still won't "use" Ni. When you're "in" your Ignoring function, it's an altered state of consciousness that lasts for a bit and then fades (this is my experience at least. I think Rick implied in the IEE description on his blog that you consciously choose to snap out of it). For example, for me, I normally understand my personality in Ne terms of "well that happened, and I can see the effects now" (insight, in terms of linking cause and effect); every now and then I'll slip into a reflective state and pace through all the feelings and impressions and write a ramble down in my journal.

Also what you can draw from this is that it's more of an "Id" state (i.e. I use Fe and Ni due to the two being blocked together in my Id as an IEE) than an "Ignoring function" state.

I think you also shouldn't underestimate your Ignoring function. When I'm trying to do something, it's like I absolutely can't see past the flurry of potentials that I want to jump on for a long enough distance into the future to figure out what's "probably" going to happen.
Compare this to one's Suggestive function which is just discarded due to getting too wrapped up in your Base (like me ignoring my body's needs (like sleeping, drinking, or not dieing) because what I'm doing is giving me those addictive cerebral Wizard vibes of getting caught up in a blizzard of ideas).

Also note that your Suggestive and Ignoring function are the same "temperament". For an EP, both will be IP. ENps are fast and mental, so they obviously lose focus on slow, bodily things (the stuff that makes up a Si base's world) and don't have time for anything slow and mental (the stuff that makes up a Ni base's world). ESps are fast and "bodily" (sort of bear with me using mental/bodily as a dichotomy for now) so they lose focus on slow, mental stuff (like considering long-term consequences of their actions, which you obviously can't do while you're in the thick of things making hay) and don't want to be mired by slow, bodily stuff.

I'm not sure how to expand that to Rationals, however.

Total tangent, but I wonder if Id states are a sort of last resort break for a burned-out Ego that hasn't had a chance to indulge in any Super-Id compensatory activities?

[FDG]

Isn't that more Se or Te?

Not Se, because my ISFj friend can't do that, but it could be Te.

[redbaron]

ESps are fast and "bodily" (sort of bear with me using mental/bodily as a dichotomy for now) so they lose focus on slow, mental stuff (like considering long-term consequences of their actions, which you obviously can't do while you're in the thick of things making hay) and don't want to be mired by slow, bodily stuff.

heh. funny description and reminds me of the last time I was with an ESTp. It felt like the physical world was speeding by so quickly and inside my head, I was slow and I had these things I wanted to say but I couldn't get them out because the external world was moving too fast. (later, I told him so and he made time for me to say what I wanted to say, which was really nice, but it was funny how my experience matched your description there)

[Blaze]

When you're "in" your Ignoring function, it's an altered state of consciousness that lasts for a bit and then fades (this is my experience at least. I think Rick implied in the IEE description on his blog that you consciously choose to snap out of it).

exactly. Ni is not a normal place to be coming from for an Ne leading. this matches what it's like when i get these forcasting type of intuitions. what i've been trying to say is that i experience it much differently than my regular day to day perceptions. they're very strong, and to my mind, come from a deep, unconscious place. there is a possibility that i am being spiritually tapped on the shoulder, i won't rule that out completely, but for this discussion, it seems more like an Ni type of intuition.

Also what you can draw from this is that it's more of an "Id" state (i.e. I use Fe and Ni due to the two being blocked together in my Id as an IEE) than an "Ignoring function" state.

yes. it's a completely different way of being; a different way your attention is focused.

I think you also shouldn't underestimate your Ignoring function. When I'm trying to do something, it's like I absolutely can't see past the flurry of potentials that I want to jump on for a long enough distance into the future to figure out what's "probably" going to happen.
Compare this to one's Suggestive function which is just discarded due to getting too wrapped up in your Base (like me ignoring my body's needs (like sleeping, drinking, or not dieing) because what I'm doing is giving me those addictive cerebral Wizard vibes of getting caught up in a blizzard of ideas).

normally i do minimize or brush off Ni type of stuff. i changed that over the last year or so though, since infpman issues forecasts and warnings all the time. last year, he told me, someone is going to fall down these stairs, be careful. true to Ni ignoring, i blew it off, yeah yeah yeah. guess what. i fell down the stairs and hurt my leg really badly. it took the whole winter to heal. now, i pay close attention to him when he says stuff like that. i specifically don't blow it off.

but any way back to the question of Ni in the 7th position. it's almost like in these forecasting instances, all my perceptions coalesce into one conclusion. the more powerful the conclusion, the more i start to take decisive action. it's like i'm on a mission. when i knew about the economic crisis, i spent 5-6 months changing everything around, including my job. it was exhausting, but i'm glad i did it. this is very different than the normal way i go about things. i'm much more like you, diddle a little bit here, diddle a little bit there, get the lay of the land, talk about stuff, ponder it, develop it a little, see what happens. very different.

Also note that your Suggestive and Ignoring function are the same "temperament". For an EP, both will be IP. ENps are fast and mental, so they obviously lose focus on slow, bodily things (the stuff that makes up a Si base's world) and don't have time for anything slow and mental (the stuff that makes up a Ni base's world). ESps are fast and "bodily" (sort of bear with me using mental/bodily as a dichotomy for now) so they lose focus on slow, mental stuff (like considering long-term consequences of their actions, which you obviously can't do while you're in the thick of things making hay) and don't want to be mired by slow, bodily stuff.

interesting i really like the way you put this. explains the details of why it's so hard to switch from a fast mental mind to a slow deliberate mental mind. it's easier to switch to slow body than to slow mind for Ne leading. you need a jolt to break you out of your mind.

Total tangent, but I wonder if Id states are a sort of last resort break for a burned-out Ego that hasn't had a chance to indulge in any Super-Id compensatory activities?

i shouldn't wonder. if you are non dualized, these are the tools at your immediate disposal. when i was changing all the economic stuff in my life last year, it was in a Te/Se type of mode. that's why it was so exhausting.

[Joy]

Isn't that more Se or Te?

Probably Si (certainly not Te... Te isn't spacial). Any type can do that though. And any type could be bad at it.

[ArchonAlarion]

The types most concerned with "the future" in a speculative and predictive sense are Alpha NT.

Ni's just know that everything is always the same in essence (nothing new under the sun) and content themselves with "knowing" the future by that.

I could give you my infamous aspect explanations, but you'd all yell at me so phucket.

[Azeroffs]

Probably Si (certainly not Te... Te isn't spacial). Any type can do that though. And any type could be bad at it.

It's probably doable in many ways by different functions... I do it all the time, so it's probably not specific to Si.

[FDG]

What I meant to say, obviously, it's that I'm better than average at that kind of stuff. But whatever guys, just keep on with your mental masturbations.

[redbaron]

The types most concerned with "the future" in a speculative and predictive sense are Alpha NT.

I know two LIIs who are both very scared of living and dying. One of them often cannot sleep for fear of the future. It makes me sad. Neither of them are married to duals.

[redbaron]

Ni's just know that everything is always the same in essence (nothing new under the sun) and content themselves with "knowing" the future by that.

right. Take death for example. I don't fear it. I know it's coming at some point but it happens to everyone. It would never keep me awake at night.

[Jarno]

The types most concerned with "the future" in a speculative and predictive sense are Alpha NT.

Ni's just know that everything is always the same in essence (nothing new under the sun) and content themselves with "knowing" the future by that.

I could give you my infamous aspect explanations, but you'd all yell at me so phucket.

Yes, I see those professors on tv speculating about the universe and earth and space travel a lot. Is that what you meant?

It seems more of discussing the future, but not really seeing the future. They might even be more right about the future, but in my case I get pictures of things that could go wrong, planted in my head every minute or so. In their case they sit around a table and discuss the future, those are different things. Just IMO...

[xkj220]

Having too much Ni can translate into Ni-hilism (). Just the right amount is the best.

[Joy]

Do you find yourself in particular situations where you think you already know what's going to happen and behave accordingly?

Yeah.

Thus confusing others or getting way ahead of everyone?

Sometimes, but it usually becomes clear.

Do you see this as a positive or a negative trait?

That's subjective. To people who value Ni, it's a positive trait. It is possible to get too ahead of the game though.

For example, Ni types create situations for Se types to act on. You have to wait until they've taken the bait for one scenario before they'll be far enough along the path to take the bait for another scenario. If the situation you're baiting them into is too far from the where you currently are, they won't see/understand the challenge you've laid out for them and won't be in a position to act on it.

Do you do things to stop yourself from jumping ahead,

Yes! I'm also EJ though...

or do you feel like it's good to be the prophet and lead others in that direction?

I think it's more of a question of ahead vs. too far ahead.

[redbaron]

For example, Ni types create situations for Se types to act on. You have to wait until they've taken the bait for one scenario before they'll be far enough along the path to take the bait for another scenario. If the situation you're baiting them into is too far from the where you currently are, they won't see/understand the challenge you've laid out for them and won't be in a position to act on it.

yeah, makes sense.

[FDG]

Yeah Ni types are retardededededede they need Se types to act on their behalf...

[redbaron]

Yeah Ni types are retardededededede they need Se types to act on their behalf...

I can't tell you how much I wish this weren't true for me.

[xkj220]

Not necessary retarded, but somewhat absent-minded and clumsy probably. Thankfully, there are people who find these traits endearing (apparently).

[redbaron]

Not necessary retarded, but somewhat absent-minded and clumsy probably. Thankfully, there are people who find these traits endearing (apparently).

I know! I'm always amazed by this!

[717495]

I know! I'm always amazed by this!

lol

Ni isn't really about knowing everything which comes along to me. Much of the time its less than that. I think Ne's are better with the external stuff, especially like noticing trends and making predictions, and nosy INTJs always want to know everything that's going to happen and will pester you with questions and then question your answers, Ne and Si used toward rationality. Scary stuff sometimes.

[FDG]

Yeah well but INFps have Fe and gamma NTs have Te to interact with the world and make things happen. I know INFps that have founded rock bands on their own, ENTjs that have founded enterprises. They probably had a dual near them but the initiative and main input didn't come from the Se type. It's not like our whole life can be interpreted through socionics, every type can take initiative in a realm they're confident in.

[Joy]

Taking initiative in business is different from say... kissing someone for the first time. Romantically, the Se types are more comfortable doing that sort of thing than Ni types. The Ni type may initiate contact and set up the scenario for the romantic stuff to happen, but in Se/Ni interactions, the Se type is the one focus on making things happen in the here and now. Of course, Ni ego types CAN do it in the absence of a Se ego type, but it's not as natural for them.

[redbaron]

Taking initiative in business is different from say... kissing someone for the first time. Romantically, the Se types are more comfortable doing that sort of thing than Ni types. The Ni type may initiate contact and set up the scenario for the romantic stuff to happen, but in Se/Ni interactions, the Se type is the one focus on making things happen in the here and now. Of course, Ni ego types CAN do it in the absence of a Se ego type, but it's not as natural for them.

yes, exactly.

[Blaze]

Taking initiative in business is different from say... kissing someone for the first time. Romantically, the Se types are more comfortable doing that sort of thing than Ni types. The Ni type may initiate contact and set up the scenario for the romantic stuff to happen, but in Se/Ni interactions, the Se type is the one focus on making things happen in the here and now. Of course, Ni ego types CAN do it in the absence of a Se ego type, but it's not as natural for them.

i was kissed, and rather enthusiastically might i add, by infpman for the first time on his initiative.

[redbaron]

i was kissed, and rather enthusiastically might i add, by infpman for the first time on his initiative.

[Blaze]