lol she didn't fudge your answers in any way, did she?
the test you didn't take is based on Reinin Dichotomies, they're really technical and complicated. I still think you're LII, and your wife is ESI. You can read through the thread I pasted on my last post, you might find it helpful, but I'm pretty sure you have super ego going on.
The saddest ESFj
...
Well, I more didn't like math because it was work. I had to do homework. It was the same for all classes, but math was the easiest to do for me.Originally Posted by xkj220
I have no idea about any of this.
LOL, maybe some, but only in things that I really didn't know and she'd say "Oh, definitely this. You don't empathize with people at all!" And I only ended up changing it one place, such as "mostly not true" to "not at all true".
I think you and your wife are either the gamma rational pair, or the delta rational pair. This means that you are either ENTj or ESTj, and she is either ISFj or INFj, respectively. Semi-duality could also work. That thread about Te/Fi and Fe/Ti fear of sleep mentioned led me to this conclusion.
WTF. I just took it again here at work. I only made minor changes to a couple things and got drastically different results. I think the layout was messed up at home since I use an unconventional browser and I might have picked options that didn't correlate to the right radio buttons.
Your result
ILI
These types might also be considered
ILE
LII
LIE
These types are not very likely
SLI
IEI
SLE
IEE
These types are quite unlikely
LSI
EII
LSE
EIE
These types are extremely unlikely
SEI
SEE
ESI
ESE
I'll check out that other one after my meeting.
hehe when I first started socionics I couldn't decide between ILI and LII either, but once I understood the nature of Fe and Se, the choice was pretty clear.
Extroverted ethics - Wikisocion
Extroverted sensing - Wikisocion
Since I'm sp stacked, I probably would seem more rigid and more like a normal LII than you with sx, but that shouldn't make too much of a difference.
The saddest ESFj
...
I read all the functions for all the types and none of them really stand out as me. Bah.
That means you're an ILI.
Well 9w1s can have a weak sense of identity. You have all the information in front of you, just take your time, do some thinking, separate what you are from what others think you are, think about how you normally interact with people, and don't let anyone pressure you. Assume your wife is ESI for a moment. If you determine that you get along with your wife really well most of the time, and you seem to be able to energize each other, then you might determine yourself as ILI. If you find that you can maintain a sense of respect for each other but the closer your get, the more contentious the relationship becomes, then you might conclude LII for yourself. Did you look at the intertype relations?
Would you care to quote some LII/ILI profiles in here and point out what fits and doesn't fit?
Last edited by electric sheep; 09-21-2009 at 08:35 PM.
The saddest ESFj
...
Yeah, I'll get to that. In the meantime, I just took that Dichotomies test. I used the link provided and read all the descriptions of each one while taking the test. I used a system like this:
If there are 5 tendencies, for example, of each dichotomy, each one I agree with from the first one (merry for example) gets 0.2 added to it. Each one I agree with from the second one (serious for example) gets 0.2 subtracted from it. If either/or could fit me, I'd skip to the next set of tendencies. Whichever result it is closer to (1, .5, 0, -.5, -1), I pick that one. Using that system, I got these results:
20% - INTP
18% - INFP
14% - ISTJ
12% - ISFP
8% - INTJ
6% - ENTP
4% - ESTP
4% - ESFJ
4% - ISTP
3% - INFJ
2% - ENTJ
2% - ENFP
2% - ENFJ
1% - ESTJ
1% - ISFJ
0% - ESFP
Hopefully I answered them how I really am.
As far as with my wife, we definitely don't have more conflict the closer we get. I just need to get away and do my own thing when I've been spending a lot of time with her. Then I realize I've been spending a lot of time on my computer or whatnot and I become really hung-ho to spend time with her and show her affection. The conflicts arise when I'm wanting to spend time by myself and she feels neglected and like I'm letting her take full responsibility for the house and children instead of being responsible myself and helping out.
LII
Bold means things I'm pretty sure are how I am.
Ego block
With a combination of dominant Ti and Ne, the LII is usually a conceptual thinker with clearly delineated views and ideologies. Unless life forces him to earn a living doing physical labor, the LII prefers to apply his analytical thinking skills to non-material aspects of things: planning organizational structures, developing ideas, analyzing data, and reaching conclusions. No matter what he does or where he works, the LII will have a distinct focus on clarifying thought and ways of looking at things.
1. Introverted logic
The LII naturally assesses statements, opinions, and actions in terms of conformance to certain principles. These principles may in practice be rules of thumb based on experience, but LIIs will usually appeal to more general, self-evident reasons, if the need arises. The LII is most engaged in communication when he is critically analyzing people's decisions and actions as well as how they generally are or are not consistent with certain pre-established goals. His dual, the ESE, likes hearing the LII's judgment, and simultaneously softens its edge by shifting his focus to how he is communicating his ideas, letting him see the intellectual thought process from the outside. The ESE appreciates and praises his ability to take the information seriously, but the ESE will find funny ways of reminding him of how he is coming across when he seems more serious than he realizes.
"Just because" is not in an LII's vocabulary. If there is a reason for something, the LII will probably want to find it. The LII strives to reduce things to their most essential aspects, and mentally recreate the whole from the bottom up. The LII's theoretical tendencies can often leave him out of touch with reality, and if unchecked may lead to abstract theories that make logical sense but have little bearing on the real world.
The LII may explore many avenues of thought, but in the end only tell others his refined conclusions, because he sees the intermediate steps as irrelevant. He is often too concise for his own good, making it difficult for others to understand his ideas.
2. Extroverted intuition
The LII often applies Ti in an academic field such as mathematics, one which allows for abstract speculation to be realized in concrete conclusions. The LII does not much care for implementation or hands-on work, requiring some degree of independence from material demands in order to develop his own ideas. If the LII feels made to do a task he perceives as boring, he will try to find an original way to do it, if simply for the sake of developing an interesting idea. The LII can think on his feet, and is able to consider multiple viewpoints, although if he feels that he has fully analyzed an idea in the past, he may dismiss it out of hand with Ti.
The LII is always in tune with the "big picture", looking at things from the most general perspective possible. Given this frame of reference, he sees many ways ordinary life could be changed to meet his vision of how things should be. Thus the LII is often seen by other more practically-minded types as naively idealistic.
The LII does not come up with ideas simply for their own sake, but tries to relate everything back to "the main point". He quickly becomes impatient or disinterested with discussion that is simply meant to generate ideas, instead of realizing them.
Super-Ego block
3. Introverted ethics
The LII is acutely aware of social conventions, such as saying "please" and "thank you", and expends much effort to conform to these rules to maintain the status of a "polite" person. But he tends to overdo the conventions themselves, as opposed to the relationships they are supposed to establish, and so ends up stepping on other people's toes (violating some less easily definable convention which he would never really want to conform to anyways). He prefers an easy-going environment where such conventions don't exist in the first place. When in a heated argument, an LII can alienate others by his natural tendency to hold and defend strong opinions (Ti).
If asked to express a unique, personal sentiment, such as a favorite color or football team, the LII may find difficulty choosing if there is no "obvious" answer. He often feels like he has no real personal, subjective feelings at all, and usually has to make a conscious decision where other types could easily supply an instinctive reaction.
The LII also is very sensitive about how other people see him, feeling depressed if he has affections that are not returned. For this reason, he tends to avoid expressing signals that show interest in certain people (as opposed to signals about his general mood and demeanor, which he feels to be much more natural), but of course it just aggravates his loneliness, instead of relieving it.
4. Extroverted sensing
The LII hates being ordered what to do, and chafes especially under orders that don't make sense to him. In such cases the LII is likely to criticize the authority — but if he does he is not subtle about it, and usually ends up being marked as a "rebel" and feeling even more frustrated than he did to begin with. An LII works best alone, so that he doesn't have to subordinate (to) others — or constantly negotiate his priorities, which strains his patience and diverts his time and attention away from reworking his understanding; if he is forced to waste time defending what he already knows, he gives up the freedom to deepen his understanding further. He does not tolerate pushiness combined with close-mindedness.
The LII does not like being simply told "get real" or "get off your duff", which he views as crude, intrusive, and insulting. He prefers to be left alone - or better, included in an atmosphere of open discussion that is receptive to his thoughts and thereby inspire him to develop them more.
If the LII has a problem that cannot be solved intellectually, but requires direct personal confrontation, he may resort to total avoidance rather than approaching the person directly, which he tends to think will produce only frustration and contempt. The LII thinks that, in an ideal world, everyone would just listen to reason instead of insisting on having their own way.
Super-Id block
5. Extroverted ethics
Being a naturally private person, the LII finds it difficult to believe that others would be interested in what he is thinking or feeling at any given moment. He feels like something is not quite right if his interaction with the people around him is too aloof. However he only rarely makes an effort to venture into more open spheres, because he usually avoids making small talk, preferring to talk about his real interests and say only what he truly believes.
To this end, the LII, above all things, appreciates others' attempts to get him to "open up" emotionally and express his true thoughts and views of the world - not just as an abstract ideal living in his head, but as something that other people actually care about enough to participate in and bring to fulfillment. His focus on important abstract matters also leads him to detach from the world, if it is not complemented with a healthy dose of silliness. The LII is usually oblivious to his emotional-psychological state and feels little responsibility for improving it, not to mention the state of others. This means that "bad emotions" can build up in him until some environmental factor comes along to alleviate them. Visible demonstrations of emotional warmth play a major part in this: something as simple as a big smile and a hug is enough to brighten an LII's day. The LII can be attracted to insincere displays of affection, even if he consciously realizes that they are only in jest.
The LII is often at a loss for what to do in social situations, and appreciates others who make him feel included in a new group and in the emotional side of a situation. The LII tends to take life very seriously, and appreciates others who can show him the lighter side of things.
6. Introverted sensing
The LII has poor control over his physical well-being, neglecting matters of simple hygiene relatively easily. He dislikes having to take care of mundane details of work, but simultaneously derives pleasure from aesthetic neatness and organization.
The LII is easily annoyed by sensory over-stimulation, including loud noises, bright light, and temperature. On the other hand, he easily becomes "addicted" to more pleasurable things, such as music, which have a corresponding effect on his mood (Fe). When left to his own devices, the LII tends to oscillate unhealthily between total indulgence of the senses and total neglect (the latter especially when working on something he feels to be extremely important). He tends to feel guilty for indulging in hedonism for the sake of hedonism.
On the surface the LII can seem easygoing, but in work projects or at home his critical nature will become more obvious.
Id block
7. Extroverted logic
The LII is an efficient worker, and seeks out new tools, resources, or methods as long as they are directly relevant to his work or interests. He is not likely to keep especially careful track of his finances, avoiding this by keeping his needs simple and constant.
The LII can easily understand whether something is impractical or not, but prefers to explain why using structural principles. He dislikes rote memorization of dates and the like, but paradoxically will often have a mental store of many arcane pieces of information (such as the first 100 digits of pi) he finds interesting or equally absurd technical skills (like mastering a video game). Such skills and information will either be a part of his leisure activities, or relate directly to his main interests, which he chooses not based on their immediate practical consequence, but on how interesting they are.
The LII only exchanges such information in conversation for entertainment, and criticizes overly bland or rambling analyses, especially if he feels they have no point.
8. Introverted intuition
The LII is a naturally cautious person, and never acts without considering the consequences in detail. This tendency sometimes prevents him from acting decisively—or at all. However, he tries not to be overly pessimistic about the consequences of others' actions, and only offers direct advice in this area if it is specifically requested. If something bad happens he is usually willing to forgive and move on without placing blame, re-establishing the course as subtly and smoothly as possible. While he tends to have very specific ideas about his general life principles and goals, he is basically indifferent as to their specific timeframe and implementation.
The LII has an active imagination, but it tends to fade in and out and its products are rarely verbalized. He hardly ever says purposely cryptic or idiosyncratic things, and criticizes others for employing overly obscure concepts.
Common social roles
The lone repository of truth — the last stalwart in a crazy world of illogic and delusion.
The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.
Mr. or Ms. Literal, who says exactly what (s)he means, and trusts that you will too.
The book worm who spends every moment of every day reading.
The smart aleck who never lets authorities tell him what to think and always finds a way to get the last word.
The specialist who devotes every waking moment to excelling in an extremely narrow but highly competitive technical field.
ILI
Ego block
1. Introverted intuition
Introverted intuition in ILIs is predominantly characterized by well developed imaginative abilities and mental wanderings. ILI often spend a great deal of time simply thinking and may spend excessive amounts of time in their mind. This mental focus can be manifest by reflecting on scenarios, on pondering bodies of information, and assorted concepts of interest. They may be prone to excessive day dreaming, in creation of intricate inner worlds or universes, or on considering their past or future. ILIs may even have novelistic tendencies where they create intricate plots, characters, and places. However, ILIs are not always inclined to share their imaginative tendencies or thoughts with others.
ILIs are naturally attuned to hidden connections between things and hints of greater implications in everyday reality. They easily recognize patterns of events, repeating outcomes, and contradictory messages. This understanding of global patterns and human behavior often allows ILIs to critically analyze present situations and determine the immediate and far-reaching consequences of certain actions. The mind of an ILI is an oasis of sorts where knowledge is treated as a toy or even a vehicle that allows them to visit complex mental landscapes that are shaped and continually revised by new information. Nonetheless, an ILI is likely to find the process of accumulating new information tiresome compared to their mental explorations; consequently, new information is often accumulated and updated in a rather lethargic, periodic, and occasionally incomplete fashion.
ILIs are often stereotypically represented as reclusive scholars, philosophers, scientists, artists, seers, and sages. The ILI, with their often unusual perceptions, may come across as unreachable, esoteric eccentrics. Because ILIs are confident about analyzing the implications of the knowledge that they have gathered, ILIs often appear perceptive, especially in fields of interest, and commonly tend to view the ideas of others with skepticism and scrutiny. ILIs may perceive others' intellectual contributions as deeply misguided or limited in scope.
ILIs predict inevitable disaster not altogether infrequently. This type of fatalism is spurned by their ability to see the negative in anything, which has its roots in the ILI's general dislike of expressing or reinforcing positive emotions. To an ILI, it may be easier to predict pessimistic results in order to avoid an unpleasant emotional reaction. Likewise, the ILI's sense of general self doubt leads him to be very conservative in his general outlook; why unnecessarily subject oneself to the uncertainty of possible disappointment?
ILIs typically exhibit a general detachment from day-to-day affairs. While an ILI might devote a great deal of time to pondering the possible consequences of some political decision, very little attention is likely to be paid to such tasks as household maintenance or cleanliness, which the ILI sees as trivial matters not deserving his time or effort.
ILIs can, in certain situations, act very tentatively. In many situations they are inclined to hesitate prior to taking any action or making important decisions. They may also prefer to observe and gather an understanding of a situation rather than actively participate. The ILI's restraint complements the hyperactivity of his dual, the SEE.
2. Extroverted logic
ILIs place great importance on factual accuracy and a basic understanding of how things work. They may be inclined to look down on or pity people who consistently demonstrate ignorance of what they consider to be basic, essential facts. It is often also very important to ILIs that a person's beliefs take into account any new factual information. For this reason, ILI's are often characterized by a nagging and constant sense of doubt, contradiction, and misinformation. They tend to be rather skeptical of other people's positions, and even frequently tend to question their own position. In groups the ILI will often question the validity of information being exchanged. Likewise, many ILIs may often use a mocking and aggressive tone if they believe that the information being presented is wrong or absurd. ILIs can also be scrupulous in removing errors in facts and statistical data, especially in undertakings that they consider as high priorities. ILIs may brush off failure unconcernedly, viewing it as merely a necessary misstep on the road towards success.
A sense of the efficiency of the goings-on in an ILI's life is a prerequisite of sorts for the peace of an ILI. This manifests very differently in ILIs from SLIs; the latter are much more likely to be proactive about making their physical environment comfortable and managed with an efficient use of resources. By contrast, ILIs are largely indifferent about their physical surroundings, and their desire for efficient allocation of resources may extend to less tangible forms, such as the allocation of resources in a game or real world political (ideological) scenario, or the efficiency of a computer program or corresponding piece of code. An ILI may demonstrate perfectionistic tendencies most conspicuously in such situations where they can work out the details in their head or on paper.
ILIs may differ significantly from Te dominant types in that they may not see it as critical to channel their energy on direct actions to achieve practical and societal gain, and indeed may not even pursue the accumulation of new information very actively. ILIs may not directly associate their knowledge with any given purpose rather than to further their own understanding. Sometimes ILIs do use their knowledge towards specific purposes, but such knowledge is not always considered a means to an end. When ILIs are required to pursue practical knowledge required for some aspect of their functioning -- such as how to fill out a series of bureaucratic forms -- sometimes ILIs embrace this information and quickly assimilate every aspect of it. Probably more often, however, ILIs will be disinterested and spurn this activity to whatever extent possible.
Often ILIs have a deep factual understanding of subjects or specialized fields of interest which they find interesting or care about. Even so, however, ILIs are typically more interested in Sometimes ILIs perceive the real-world occurrences around them, such as the daily tedium of work or school, through the lens created to understand the information that they care about most, although they may choose not to share this perception with others. They often have little to contribute in many social situations, but when the topic of their interest comes around they may tend to be the center of attention, disseminating the information of their expertise.
ILI humor is typically coated with irony, cynicism, witticisms, and sarcasm. When provoked, an ILI can engage in highly toxic sarcasm where the offender's intelligence is insulted and reviled. In such situations, the ILI can be seen by others as cold and malicious, but the ILI will generally see himself as simply punishing an obnoxious individual who has demonstrated his foolishness.
ILIs can often be highly critical of others' ideas and actions. Typically this is because others' ideas violate the ILI's understanding of the facts, or because ILIs see more efficient or workable solutions. ILIs often channel their energy towards constructive criticism because they frequently lack the initiative to take decisive action themselves.
Super-Ego block
3. Introverted sensing
ILIs generally place moderate to minimal importance on such matters as cleanliness, comfort, and sensory stimuli. Some ILIs may perceive these elements as a distraction. It is not atypical of ILIs to be completely uninterested by and unable to find any value in something such as a piece of fine artwork. Different ILIs respond to different such artistic stimuli in different ways; for example, an ILI might scorn painting as being worthless but possess sufficient background to enjoy other media, such as sculpture or music.
ILIs are often uncertain about the messages that their own body sends them. An ILI might feel some irregularity in their own body and be unsure as to its significance in the overall functioning of the body. An ILI will seek to determine the consequence of such stimuli through their own understanding of the functioning of the human body... often with minimal success at determining the true cause, and often blowing things significantly out of proportion. An ILI's sense of self doubt may lead to such assumptions as the presence of a brain tumor as the result of a mere headache. In contrast to Si types, ILIs are significantly less adept at making active adjustments to their lifestyle to correct these minor ailments.
ILIs are very capable of placing a moderate life focus on maintaining their physical comfort. ILIs often construct a lifestyle based on various activities which feed their own intellectual stimulation; though attention to maintaining comfortable surroundings is likely to be ignored inasmuch as it interferes with the ILI's deep interests, ILIs generally will not ignore their own comfort entirely, as some attentiveness to it goes hand in hand with their inactive lifestyle. However, in doing so, ILIs often still neglect the world around them and become consistently mired in their own inertia, and are liable to perceive something as missing.
ILIs often feel very hesitant and resistant towards lifestyle changes that threaten the commodiously constructed surroundings that they create for themselves. Nobody is better suited to opening the ILI for change than the hyperactive SEE, whose constant activity is perceived by the ILI as refreshingly active.
4. Extroverted ethics
ILIs analyze situations and make decisions in a very logical and scientific manner. Their reliance on objectivity and accumulation of factual knowledge leaves very little room for decisions based on emotional considerations. ILIs deeply dislike being asked or coerced to express their emotions. They are most comfortable expressing negative sentiments which indicate their disdain for required emotional participation, such as wry, sardonic pessimism. Some ILIs have very poor control over their emotions, and may lash out angrily if provoked.
When discussing matters that are perceived as important, ILIs often betray a harsh, critical perspective on viewpoints and ideas that they find particularly stupid and insensible. This may be a result of the fact that some ILIs do not attach emotional considerations to arguments and do not consider criticism to be offensive. Instead, if confronted with somebody whose intelligence, persona, or ideas they do not respect, they may react in a hostile fashion, which can be perceived as arrogant; however, not all ILIs, obviously, will react in this fashion.
ILIs' reactions to the sphere of emotions can vary greatly, but they are particularly apparent in the sphere of social relations. ILIs are typically not social creatures. Some ILIs do not understand the importance of social connections and choose to ignore the area of emotional involvement with others altogether, instead delving themselves into virtual reality, mystical introspection, or private study. Some others trudge through the social landscape without truly understanding the art of socialization, particularly in areas such as common courtesy to others and precautions from offending others. ILIs may view people who try to make other people happy as foolishly involving themselves in a completely pointless exercise.
ILIs tend to be unconfident and often nervous about interacting with other people, often because they do not heed the rules of social interaction and can feel that they are not socially respected. Only with a small number of people whom the ILI trusts deeply does the ILI let down his emotional guard. To these people, the ILI can be surprisingly sincere and kind. Nonetheless, typically, to the mass people that the ILI does not trust completely and unequivocally he will never have significant interactions with, and will be little more than a common acquaintance.
ILI continued
Super-Id block
5. Extroverted sensing
ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, ILIs may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact with the outside world, ILIs often find their activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To ILIs, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For the ILI, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. ILIs are often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, ILIs require an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into their lives, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which the ILI can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.
ILIs are additionally very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially with regards to their own future. ILIs do not always necessarily know what they want out of life and may have difficulty setting or achieving long term goals. In order to be able to act, the ILI needs a tangible and definite stimulus from somebody well grounded in external reality and who has a clear picture of what must be done in a certain situation.
ILIs may perceive work-related or intellectual pursuits as being of great long-term importance, but such interests are often not perceived as possessing great importance in the short term and rarely suffice as a true replacement for the discomfort that an ILI may feel at his lack of decisiveness or inertia.
6. Introverted ethics
ILIs tend to deeply value feelings of attachment to those whom engage them in a deep and lasting emotional kinship. They have a hard time establishing these sentiments as they are naturally disinterested in most people, who seem outwardly unremarkable or having nothing in common with them. However, when the ILI has developed deep interpersonal bonds, they tend to hold on to such attachments very deeply. ILIs are almost always deeply unconfident about their social abilities and, consequently, they rarely speak of their inner bonds with others to common outsiders with whom they share merely superficial acquaintanceships. Feelings of this sort are rarely talked about with others, but the ILI may be painfully aware of these sentiments for fear of appearing overly sentimental or having feelings that are "out of line" or inappropriate to their present level of social interaction. ILIs may tend to love from afar and in their solitude if there is something or someone they love, because of their lack of confidence in their own feelings. Some ILIs may even be closet romantics. ILIs can also be quite sensitive, despite their outward emotional reservation, and are sometimes far more emotionally vulnerable than they demonstrate.
In general, ILIs are fundamentally good-natured and conscionable people who may place a great deal of importance on ethical principles. In fact, ILIs may have a very strong sense of good will and loyalty towards others if they find the others to be similarly reasonable, trustworthy worthy individuals. ILIs do not always demonstrate this loyalty explicitly. As a consequence, ILIs are not always seen as kind people, instead more typically appearing standoffish, cold, or hostile. If ILIs are drawn in by sincere and engaging individuals, the ILI's sense of compassion may be realized and so surface. ILIs can be calm, attentive, and sympathetic listeners to the plights of their emotionally volatile duals, and can be very drawn to the state of deep bonds that they feel with them.
Many less actualized ILIs hold a far more vindictive attitude. This occurs, among other scenarios, when ILIs are depressed about people, and especially when ILIs are suffering from a lack of Fi support from others. In these scenarios the ILI may aggressively attack people's intelligence, ideas, or character rather unrelentlessly. Even so, such actions may precipitate conflict which the ILI is liable to find highly tiresome and frustrating -- as well as blurring the ILI's mental image of the facts, thus making him feel as though his work is unfinished. Such people who have been blacklisted are often in the ILI's eyes very deserving of this role, but the ILI may find that other people do not agree and faces the choice of either withdrawing in order to avoid interacting with the object of derision, or else continuing to interact, thus perpetuating the process and compounding the ILI's frustration. Such judgments may be very difficult to extricate from the ILI; such a process requires a copious amount of often thankless moral support and truth; SEEs are the only persons equipped for this task, and may in their occasional naivete of others' motivations benefit from the ILI's rather harsh stances. Typically, however, if the ILI is engaged with people with whom he feels very close and who accept his observations, explanations, and expositions (his mental image of the facts, as it were), he sees little need to interact with such individuals that would inspire his aggression.
ILIs rarely, if ever, take it upon themselves to display emotional, social, or physical initiative. To engage other people, especially in unfamiliar circumstances, can be a harrowing task for ILIs, and one from which most ILIs usually try to refrain. Nonetheless, ILIs are often treated with uncertainty or dubitation by most others due to their large inability to give off clear emotional data; ILIs may appear overly polite, formal, and robotic in social situations. ILIs seeking emotional ties with individuals may find themselves forced to take the initiative with others, a task for which even friendly ILIs are poorly equipped and bogged down with uncertainty. Even when ILIs do take some initiative upon themselves, they almost never succeed in reaching a depth of emotional connection which satisfies them.
Realization and development of Fi in ILIs, as a weak and unconscious function, represents a process of growth. Some ILIs with minimally developed Fi can be far less aware of the importance of lasting emotions, and can appear far more insensitive, unfriendly, and antagonistic.
Id block
7. Extroverted intuition
Although ILIs may have the ability to brainstorm and develop lots of new and unconventional ideas, doing so may not always come naturally to them. In contrast to Ne leading types, ILIs are likely to be relatively immotile in the ideas that they consider. Whereas Ne leading types may jump from idea to idea in succession, ILIs are likely to focus more closely on a more limited batch of mental themes. ILIs are also often critical of new ideas which do not correspond to their overall understanding of a subject.
ILIs often believe that a well developed understanding of a situation is of greater importance than a deep understanding of the potential outcomes. To an ILI, it would be a silly exercise to simply list a number of possible outcomes without considering the likelihood of their realization and why they may or may not come to pass.
ILIs may be more apt to take a more practical or imagination-oriented approach to evaluating the outside world. They are unlikely to generate ideas simply for the sake of generating new and unusual ideas, but may seek to instead expand upon aspects of their own internal realities -- such as thinking of possible characteristics or plots for inner mental universes. Additionally, they may seek to exert their mental faculties to deal with ideas in the real world, such as those pertaining to areas like economics, politics, or anything regarding the development of modern society.
ILIs often have difficulty adapting themselves to new intellectual interests. They instead seek to limit the amount of new information that they have to learn. Consequently, they may recycle interests until the same interests become a drudgery, even so much that intellectual progress becomes stunted.
8. Introverted logic
ILIs naturally possess a strong command of logical systems such as formal logic and mathematics. However, they tend to be very skeptical of extensively systematic explanations of real-world phenomena. While they readily acknowledge the usefulness of many proven systematic, mathematical, and symmetrical systems in science, they tend to be disdainful of theoretical and practical models that describe an absolute reality or that do not have some empirical basis. The ILI vision of reality, scientific, philosophical, or otherwise, is that of one self-contained universe of too many processes and mysteries to count.
ILIs often reject absolutist explanations, and often fall into a constant cycle of dynamically reevaluating their informational outlook (ie "this may change, but at the moment i sort of am inclined to think the facts suggest that droog is better than blinth, despite these plausible alternative interpretations").
In relation to socionics in particular, ILIs often adamantly reject or do not consider of much importance certain extensively systematic and unproven aspects of the theory, such as Supersocion theory.
Common social roles
The computer geek who lives in virtual reality and understands computers and Internet communication, but lacks experience in real-life social situations.
The mystic or spiritual philosopher who is into all things mystical, esoteric, or eastern and makes little sense to the material-minded.
The encyclopedist or librarian type who knows literally all there is to know about vast areas of knowledge, but does not use his or her knowledge at work.
The office introvert who will not let a sentence mean anything but what was technically said, and doesn't care about how uncomfortable he is making his co-workers.
Yes well seeing as that ILI description is the product of Alpha NT's describing themselves I find it no surprise you relate to it.
The end is nigh
hm I kinda thought it was interesting how you bolded most of the stuff in the 7th and 8th functions in both profiles.
Have you come to a conclusion on your enneagram type? This might help if you haven't seen it already (you have to register with the site before you can see it):
The Enneagram Institute: Members Section
You seem like a typical slacker genius, everything you highlighted seems to indicate that. You don't really want much from the world and you just enjoy being with the right people and taking it easy. I don't think you value Fi though. You have Fi role, you can navigate the world of emotional judgments, but you don't like it. You aren't receptive to it. As you learn more about the types and the information elements, you begin to see a better picture of how some types fit you better than others, even if they don't fit you very well at all, which seems to be the case here. But it doesn't really matter how well the descriptions fit you--it's the concept of intertype relations that is the real reason for learning socionics. I just have to make some personal adjustments to make socionics work for me.Nines feel at ease in the world, and their style of thinking reflects their unconscious desire to merge with the world. Fives are afraid of being overwhelmed by the world, and their intellectual efforts are an unconscious defense against the world, an attempt to master it intellectually. There is a world of difference between these two types since they see the world so differently. Compare Charles Darwin (a Five) and Walt Disney (a Nine), Albert Einstein (a Five) and Jim Henson (a Nine) to understand the similarities and differences between these two types more clearly.
Last edited by electric sheep; 09-23-2009 at 02:54 AM.
The saddest ESFj
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Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
I'm down with alpha. You don't really seem IEI or beta much at all.
I thought alpha NTs were LII. The ILI description is an LII describing himself? That's kinda messed up.
? Alpha (LII), I don't seem IEI or beta? I'm assuming you don't think I'm gamma (ILI) much at all, either. LII and ILI seem like the main ones to decide about.
Fear of sleep: The activity partners seem to fit my wife and I. I'll read that Enneagram 5 and 9 thing. (5 of 9? Did that borg survive?) I've been looking for a description involving the difference of the 2.
What other anime series to you like?
Hmm, before I talk about favorite anime, let me tell you what I like about certain anime and movies. I'm really drawn to physically powerful characters, as well as untouchable ones who don't care. I usually root for such characters and hope they are undefeatable. I like to put myself in their place and want them to win as much as if it was me. "None of you weak mortals understand. You can't beat me. All your love and morals and teamwork and stuff is futile." Sephiroth, Alucard, Alex Mercer, Hannibal Lechter, Sylar, Maleficent.
My favorite anime is Dragonball Z. I've watched DB, DBZ, and DBGT in order. I only watch anime in Japanese with subtitles (except Hellsing because the English voices are good). I like DBZ because of how overwhelmingly powerful the characters are.
My other favorites are Hellsing Ultimate, Naruto, Yu Yu Hakusho, Inuyasha, FLCL, and Cromartie High School (so hilarious). There are several others I've heard about that look good, but haven't seen. Death Note is one of those.
Hmm, you're fond of the "shounen" genre. A peculiarity those anime tend to have is that they sport SEE's as heroes, you know; the typical slightly hyperactive kid with a big heart (Naruto, Goku, etc). Other gamma characters in Naruto in particular include: Sasuke (ESI) and Itachi (LIE). I'd also recommend you to check out if you can one anime called Saint Seiya. You seem to be attracted to gamma characters in general. Not saying that this is a conclusive proof of you being a gamma type, but I'd say it adds to the pool of already available evidence.
My typing for you at the moment is: ILI-Te, 5w4 sx/sp, but I don't understand very well the rationality/irrationality dichotomy (more like I am not able to discern which is which for introverts), and the static/dynamic thingie, so maybe you are ESI or something else. Perhaps some of our more experimented forumers here would be willing to expand on it.
EDIT: Also, I think the Filatova descriptions that you can find in the wikisocion are more accurate than the default ones. Check out the ILI one: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Filatova_ILI
Last edited by xkj220; 09-25-2009 at 05:37 AM. Reason: quoted msg/added link
having sx does complicate things I think. That, and SEIs are typically not thought of as 6w7s, although I know a few of them. Both of you have atypical enneagram/socionics mixes, and I still think you are LII, except if you have an activity relationship then that means your wife is SEI. If she is SEI, then I would imagine that socionics profiles would be an even worse fit for her than LII profiles were for you. Check it out.
but then again, ILI 9w1 is not difficult to conceive. I think Michael Moore is one.
Jason Schwartzman is probably an LII 9w1.
The saddest ESFj
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It's one of the problems of being a 9. Your personality is not quite solid. It's ambiguous and malleable enough for people to interpret it however they want, and they frequently get it wrong.
The saddest ESFj
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Dude, that test you took has an error in it. So people get SEE for no reason.
Second of all I don't see how ILIs can't be dramatic, especially about things they're interested in. Just thought I'd throw that truth out there. Sure some people might see it as lacking in intellect, but there is no such thing as an intellectual type. Any type can be reserved in emotive expression. Fe is inclined to understand the process behind expression and charm and use it as a tool, it doesn't mean PoLR Fe types are always "cold" and "serious" and "intellectual." I am fucking goofy and zany as hell, at times. I'm sure Isaac Asimov has his moments too.
hm, you could also be enneagram 3 like me. Depressed and/or lazy 3s can look like 9s
The saddest ESFj
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