ISTps emanating sadness/melancholy

[meatburger]

Meatburger you always meet these superbadasss hardcore istp chicks, lol. Kinda makes me wonder about myself cuz I'm not like that at all really. I'm getting soft in my old age apparently :/

Nah to be honest, chasing this girl would have been a mistake. She may have been a bit too wild for me really. She was showing her stretch marks and talking about guys she has been with. The level of badass that im learning to appreciate is a bit of a lack of female emotionality. You have that in spades . ISTp's come in all shapes and sizes. I know two ones from america who are christian and they think almost every thing i say is inproper or rude. I also know one from sweden who is very toned down and nice.

Meatburger you always meet these superbadasss hardcore istp chicks, lol.

Never get them though

[Wrong Way Ticket]

She was showing her stretch marks and talking about guys she has been with.

Wow. Might just be me/my experience but this doesn't seem like something an ISTp would do!

[thePirate]

I reached out and touched them and she pulled away and said "when i was younger"

Shit like that pulls on my heartstrings.

I tend to get the feeling that the enfps on this forum are pussyfooting around with it comes to SLI's. Making sure to adhere to the laws of socionics or what not. I've been guilty of this myself. Still kind of am.

Being aware of duality fucks with it. I've experienced this firsthand.

[meatburger]

Being aware of duality fucks with it. I've experienced this firsthand.

Yep. no doubt man. Maybe we should never have learnt socionics at all

[Wrong Way Ticket]

Yep. no doubt man. Maybe we should never have learnt socionics at all

Werd.

[Wrong Way Ticket]

I tend to get the feeling that the enfps on this forum are pussyfooting around with it comes to SLI's. Making sure to adhere to the laws of socionics or what not. I've been guilty of this myself. Still kind of am.

Care to elaborate on that? =)

[meatburger]

Wow. Might just be me/my experience but this doesn't seem like something an ISTp would do!

You are right thats not exactly what she did. She just pointed out stretch marks on her legs and said "they are not going away" lol. Then she said she had two options tonight. To sleep with this guy or sleep with one of his girl friends

[Creepy-male]

Well, actually, the reason I'm such good friends with <pseudonym> is because I thought I was ESE

FWIW, I think some level of coaxing is required. It's a loaded word, that, because it carries a weight of being intrusive; instead, I think it takes being open enough to let the SLI feel they can be straight with you. Serious relationships are really verbal, in a way. Even at "Friend" distance, there's a large amount of tacit understandings. I'm starting to think that almost becomes a wall, and it's the IEE's "job" so to speak to break past those, and even just generally move in. The less quiet understanding there is, the better it is.

I think Fi especially only really "works" when there's a large amount of verbal communication and you're up close enough to be next all the wrigglies, crawlies, levers and pullies inside people's heads. But obviously that's something special, being that close. "So if I commit, am I losing my options? If I give, will I get back? It is a lot to give." I think that, too, is another barrier. [Later thought: for Ne. And then the SLIs don't know we're interested, and may even start doubting themselves. And then neither the IEE or the SLI is happy ]

Also, I think generally Deltas want to be friends first, and it takes a lot to move in either direction from that. [Later thought: however, drifting apart by degrees happens naturally and automagically, unfortunately.]

I'll probably add more to this post later.

EDIT

More on "the wall of silence" that I mentioned above. Even at a distance, Fi is crunching away from an angle coming from within other people. To do that, it builds little replicas, almost immediately. Those replicas can be incomplete, and we get stuck dodging things that might possible harm the existing distance. Sometimes we dodge illusory things though. In <pseudonym> and my case, it took some interestingly dire situations to actually force our real thoughts out (Normally we'd be paralyzed about hurting the other, you know, to the detriment of more openness and intimacy.)

MORE EDIT

As in, it took external circumstances to move anything along. Actually, another SLI friend of mine was invaluable. If Si is about cutting through the whirlwind of Ne possibilities, he definitely contributed a great deal. So, that's another trap for IEEs . I can't help but wonder if being decisive and actually chasing after one thing might help us, rather than just sitting and waiting, which I think is a bad idea for our precious, slightly spoiled Ne

EVEN MORE EDIT

I'll elaborate on what I meant in the above paragraph a little later. Sorry for being so cryptic

[thePirate]

Care to elaborate on that? =)

Yeah, there's a ton of posts about enfps flabergasted at how to start a relationship with an SLI.

SLI's being this sort of enigma we're trying to crack. IMO, I dont think the IEEs here are putting the effort or being straight forward enough in themselves when in the presence of an SLI. I've been interacting with more SLI's lately on a closer psychological distance, and can't say it's been anything less than intense.

When I first began interacting, I kept socionics laws in mind not to overstep my boundaries. I really wanted duality to work, but if anything, it served as more of a detriment. It made me more sensitive to the situation then I would have naturally been.

I thought I was being myself, but not to the extent duality requires. I hung out with a long time SLI friend of mine, and it was an eye opening experience. We had been talking about certain issues, which provoked an emotional reaction within me. I felt helpless in not being able to assist/motivate/whatever. I basically got to a point where I just didnt give a shit, figured 'this isn't working', and kind of had an outburst on him. It wasn't out of anger though, but out of genuine care. It seemed to activate, almost energize my buddy.

The change was visibly noticable.

The experience definitely brought us closer. I know that wouldnt have happened if I had been thinking too much about the interaction or socionics, or who knows what. Or been afraid to push the boundary, as I've read SLI's typically want to be left alone, etc.

Well, to fellow IEE's I say, fuck that. Infringe on their gotdamn space. They need it

As much as we do.

Either go all out or don't even try. The relationship will go nowhere(as probably many of you have experienced)

SLI's are tough nuts to crack, but damn if I'm not the one to do it.

[Creepy-male]

Well, to fellow IEE's I say, fuck that. Infringe on their gotdamn space. They need it

As much as we do.

Either go all out or don't even try. The relationship will go nowhere(as probably many of you have experienced)

SLI's are tough nuts to crack, but damn if I'm not the one to do it.

This. But don't physically infringe, do it emotionally and mentally

Glad to see my epic rant was read

[Creepy-male]

Yeah, I think Rick's idea of "domains of responsibility" totally applies here. In terms of SLIs being individualists, that's in their material ST world. I think they can be very lonely and need a healthy overdose of optimism, support, and dedication that only an IEE can be brazen enough to force on them.

It's not healthy if you hold back on the NF side, but likewise, it's not healthy if you intrude on the ST side either. But if you aren't making an effort to connect, what you have withers and dries up.

Another analogy...

It's like a fan. If the fan's sitting still, none of the blades are spinning. Once the fan is on, both sides start moving towards eachother.

But duality is a magic fan that gets faster and the blades move closer

So maybe a magnet is a better example. Magnetism doesn't happen if you have two magnets too far apart, but once they're in close? *snap*

Like magic.

[thePirate]

Well, actually, the reason I'm such good friends with Ishy is because I thought I was ESE

FWIW, I think some level of coaxing is required. It's a loaded word, that, because it carries a weight of being intrusive; instead, I think it takes being open enough to let the SLI feel they can be straight with you.

You're IEE again? Sheesh.

Anyway, this is the kind of shit I was referring to. Pussyfooting.

'Open enough'.

'Being intrusive'

These SLI's aren't fucking fragile, do you guys not get that?

If anything, their wild beasts we have to tame.

IEE's, what you would generally feel is an infringement on someones psychological space is probably off the charts to what an actual infringing would mean.

I don't even think an IEE could infringe on an SLI's space.

Moreso, I think that advice is shitty for IEE's looking for their duals.

Im going to reiterate it. Infringe. Push the boundary in every way, I actually hope an SLI calls you out on it. At least then you'll know the real boundary.

Thats what we do naturally, anyway

Note: These posts were strictly intended for IEE's. Also, I liked your posts coolanzon and I agree in a sense, its just you gave a perfect example of what I was talking about.


Booyah

[Creepy-male]

[quote=thePirate;545082]You're IEE again? Sheesh.

Anyway, this is the kind of shit I was referring to. Pussyfooting.

'Open enough'.

'Being intrusive'

These SLI's aren't fucking fragile, do you guys not get that?

If anything, their wild beasts we have to tame.

More like cuddly kitties

IEE's, what you would generally feel is an infringement on someones psychological space is probably off the charts to what an actual infringing would mean.

I don't even think an IEE could infringe on an SLI's space.

Exactly! If it happens, one or the both of you is probably mistyped!

Anyway, as the other IEEs were saying, we can get hung up on the "rules" as laid out by socionics. I think the lesson we can all learn from this is to only use socionics post-hoc to analyze what happened (and maybe to narrow down who to spend precious Fi on ).

Note: These posts were strictly intended for IEE's. Also, I liked your posts coolanzon and I agree in a sense, its just you gave a perfect example of what I was talking about.

Well, what I've said about the Delta psychology still stands. Oh, the trials and tribulations of being in the cuddly half of the world :frown:

Booyah

Amen

[07490]

Pirate, I liked your post. Dunno why but I liked it. As far as it being lonely to not have anyone to turn to, I don't feel like that at all. I don't think anyone understands when I tell them I want to deal with things on my own, they can't seem to comprehend that. I can't comprehend having to rely on other people. I hate putting my problems onto other people. I should be able to take care of myself and my problems. Just like people can't understand that, it's really hard for me to understand people who go to others with their problems. And no one really knows anything about me and I prefer it that way and it's not lonely in the slightest. You all know more about me than anyone in real life.

Is this how Fe-polr look like? If someone close to me feels this way and be burden by their life problem I feel more compel to sit down have a cup of tea and discuss the problem with them.

[Mattie]

Funny seeing those posts above who my first choice for their type isn't NeFi... But I generally agree with what you have to say, I'm starting to find that what I think is intrusive on their independence isn't anywhere near the reality of the situation. For instance, I've been calling this SiTe often and I was starting to get worried that I was coming off needy and nagging. And when I mentioned it to him, he told me it wasn't a problem at all, and that he didn't mind. So a lot of my anxiety had really been for nothing. And ThePirate is right again, NeFi need to go through and break their barriers. Socionics-wise, this might be because is in our role function, making patience with a situation as well as needing to apply any pressure at all seems adverse to our natures.

[Creepy-male]

*bows*

Glad to be of service.

One small step for IEEs, one giant leap for our happiness. This is history we're writing

[meatburger]

You're IEE again? Sheesh.

Anyway, this is the kind of shit I was referring to. Pussyfooting.

I totally agree. If we want something we should go for it. I am actually never scared to speak my mind to ISTp's. I disagree with them, i can get snappy at them if they do something wrong. Basically every time ive done this, as odd as it sounds we get a bit closer lol. I find your post inspiring, because ISTp's appreciate someone with a zest for life most of all. Im finally realising that my zest is not 100% there, i think its time to find it.

I had my ISTp friend over for 3 days a couple of days ago. I was with him for every single hour. When i was talking to the chick he went all quiet. I said sorry later and he said "dont say sorry you were hitting on a girl i was just trying to get some alone time". Still, i waited till 3:00am with him at the airport till he left rather than just dropping him off. He can get alone time when hes dead

[jessica129]

lol, Pirate, you're awesome

[Park]

Jessica likes thePirate and thePirate likes Jessica. It's so obvious, an Fe-PoLR can see it.

[xyz]

Trying to anal-ize SLI's is like trying to analyze Zen.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by jessica129
Pirate, I liked your post. Dunno why but I liked it. As far as it being lonely to not have anyone to turn to, I don't feel like that at all. I don't think anyone understands when I tell them I want to deal with things on my own, they can't seem to comprehend that. I can't comprehend having to rely on other people. I hate putting my problems onto other people. I should be able to take care of myself and my problems. Just like people can't understand that, it's really hard for me to understand people who go to others with their problems. And no one really knows anything about me and I prefer it that way and it's not lonely in the slightest. You all know more about me than anyone in real life.


07490
Is this how Fe-polr look like? If someone close to me feels this way and be burden by their life problem I feel more compel to sit down have a cup of tea and discuss the problem with them.

We (SLIs) don't mind so much listening to your problems, just just don't expect us to talk about ours. Is that selfish of us?

[Mattie]

We (SLIs) don't mind so much listening to your problems, just just don't expect us to talk about ours. Is that selfish of us?

You see, this is rather interesting. I had a problem like this with a friend who I think is TeNi. He gladly listens to all of my problems, gives advice, is very patient... And I love that, because I feel like I can just unload all of my problems. But he never talks about his, ever. And this started to frustrate me, because it was like, how do I pull my weight in this relationship if I don't help you? Like, don't take away what my strengths are all about, I'm great at listening and helping with problems, and if you take that away from me... I'm almost just like this cute bobble head or something. So, I mean, I guess I don't think it's selfish per se, but hearing and working through other peoples' problems is just an innate strength of mine, don't let it go to waste!

[Cyrano]

You see, this is rather interesting. I had a problem like this with a friend who I think is TeNi. He gladly listens to all of my problems, gives advice, is very patient... And I love that, because I feel like I can just unload all of my problems. But he never talks about his, ever. And this started to frustrate me, because it was like, how do I pull my weight in this relationship if I don't help you? Like, don't take away what my strengths are all about, I'm great at listening and helping with problems, and if you take that away from me... I'm almost just like this cute bobble head or something. So, I mean, I guess I don't think it's selfish per se, but hearing and working through other peoples' problems is just an innate strength of mine, don't let it go to waste!

It's just not our way to open up like that, Just look at the SLIs you know here. Do you really see them at their emotionally weakest times? And this is the Internet! I can see why we love the IEEs in our lives though. Everyone else tires of trying. Don't underestimate the power of trying. I'm reminded of the long-time ENFp in my life. She was 100% willing to listen and share. I was 100% willing to listen (well maybe not 100%). Somehow we cobbled that into a life-long friendship. She taught me so much about my emotional side that I couldn't even begin to see about myself, some good, some not so good. But I needed to hear it. I have no idea what she got out of me.

In my life there have been maybe four people who have touched me in a way that has re-defined who I am, and usually NOBODY is allowed to change an SLI.

So you keep trying. Some of it gets through. I'll prove it... Ever give advice to one of your SLIs and they dismiss it out of hand? Then a few weeks later, you notice..."hey, they did exactly what I suggested after all!!!" Uh huh.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I like speaking to IEE's about my problems because they're able to understand me and other people so easily. They make revelations about myself I hadn't realised. I then talk about other people and their situations, and they're able to accurately judge what's going on with them and how they relate to everyone. It's just a big Fi whore-fest.

Edit: What's good is we seem to form stable ideas about certain people and social groups. We re-inforce these views every so often by talking about them. I usually find myself enjoying this. What can throw the IEE though is when these things change, and it can somehow make me worried, maybe because of that.

[mikemex]

We (SLIs) don't mind so much listening to your problems, just just don't expect us to talk about ours. Is that selfish of us?

Actually, more than SLI specific this is more about introverts in general. If they share their shit with you, then they really value you. Otherwise, don't consider yourself that close.

[Park]

I was 100% willing to listen (well maybe not 100%).

LMAO

[Wrong Way Ticket]

What can throw the IEE though is when these things change, and it can somehow make me worried, maybe because of that.

Yes! This is actually almost frustrating. After talking about change, getting our advice, having us motivate and subtly push the SLI. Change starts to happen. And then I see that the SLI is really worried and unsure and I go: wait, what? Isn't this what you wanted? What aren't you telling me! I need to know!

[jewels]

I found that "original posting" by Lao Tze to be very amusing

speaking of the topic of ISTps...so today I was IMing w/ my ISTp friend (who I don't talk to that often). It was funny as in just a few questions she sorta got me to say about a paragraph of rather personal info that I haven't told many people (about some past work stuff that had bothered me). Then she managed to (in one question), get me to consider a completely different path that I've not been open to for several years -- I didn't agree to go on that path, but I was open to the idea (and I've not been open to that idea at ALL when anyone else has suggested it). She was sorta like "well, they might not ALL be that way, but of course if you think that's better, do that." So, no pressure to do it that way...like she didn't really care which one I picked. Also, she was sorta fixing my logical gap of jumping to conclusions.

I sorta was surprised, since she managed to accomplish all of that in maybe 10 words haha. (and in a not offensive way)

I actually talk more easily w/ her over IM sometimes, as in crowds we shift to talking to different people. One on one we talk well once we get started talking, but it can sometimes take a while to get past that initial stage of hmmm...not sure what to say.

[mikemex]

I met a german ISTp girl on tour a few days ago. We kind of just locked eyes with one another and hung out from then on. I wouldn't say she was sad, more just hardcore. She told me she doesn't want a boyfriend its not for her. She said she goes to tits out tuesday at the local nightclub and i said "ever get up on stage?" and she said 5 times lol. When she got into her bikini i was like what the fuck.. so hot. She told me her temporary boyfriend is ugly and she turns off the lights. I noticed she had some cut marks on her wrists. I reached out and touched them and she pulled away and said "when i was younger" For some reason all of this didn't scare me it made me more interested lol. So i wouldn't say she was sad, more she didn't give a shit / had latent anger. Was a shame she went back to germany that night haha.

She was an SLE.