SLEs are more direct and assertive, more spontaneous (generally speaking at least; this is somewhat subtype-related), less tactful and less skilled at maneuvering social situations (they can unintentionally be assholes -- when an EIE does it, it's fully intended).
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
yes, hidden agenda is a great way too. SLEs sooo want to be loved!Originally Posted by octopuslove
IEI-Fe 4w3
EIEs wear shoes, SLEs don't.how does one tell eie and sle apart!?
One big difference in how to deal with EIE's and SLE's.
EIE responds to bluntness and frankness
SLE responds to kindness and charm
This example might be bad for several reasons:
1. it involves fictional characters,
2. both characters are men,
3. I may have mistyped them, and
4. their characters are over exaggerated interpretations of personalities for the purposes of fiction/storytelling (but this reason might also be good because it makes it easier to see the difference).
Anyways:
If you've seen the movie Thor (or if you ever get a chance to), I think it provides a very good example of the difference. The character of Thor is (IMO) a very clear SLE, and Loki (his brother) I believe is an EIE. I don't know how representative the film depictions were of the comicbook characters' personalities because I've never read them.
In the film, Thor (SLE) is pretty reckless and has a very carefree, "do first, think later" attitude. He doesn't understand the perspective of others or their concerns (lack of Fi) and makes a lot of bad mistakes for the ultimate goal of gaining admiration and love for himself (Hidden Agenda). Only after making said mistakes does he painfully realize the gravity of what he has done.
Loki (EIE) is much more calculated and playful in the trickster sense. He stirs the emotional tide and thoughts of the people around him, then sits back and watches, waiting to see how others will react until making his next move. He provokes and sometimes deceives others simply to see what they will do. Here again the Hidden Agenda is obvious. Loki seeks to control and influence others and the situation (to gain a wealth of power over others) for what he feels is just for everyone, and his character is constantly trying to do this. When someone questions his leadership, Loki defends himself by saying he did what was the best for all.
I think their nicknames or whatever, Thor the God of Thunder, and Loki the God of Mischief, further emphasize the difference. One yields power in a more brute force, aggressive sense, the other yields power in a more subtle, mentally manipulative sense. One charges forward and acts without hesitation or fear, while the other watches and waits patiently for the opportune moment. Again, these are very overly exaggerated portrayals of the types.
Sorry if this doesn't really help in any concrete/useful way.
Last edited by Clumsy; 03-26-2012 at 07:46 AM.
ESTps look like this:
ENFjs look like this:
it's just that easy
!!!
I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it?
Beta NF -
They're kind of building up to that with Thor/Cap America/Iron Man, etc.. into an ensemble Avengers movie.I watched thor recently, was pretty good. First hand impression i thought the actor did an ok job portraying SLE, and Loki as an EIE well. I wonder if they'll have a sequel to it
All Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Is there any message where you didnt put bullshit about you ? Be those things. The thing about you is that you talk too much about what you are, making it seem like empty facade. Like someone telling that they are so powerful. If you have to tell others you got power. You dont have itAll Betas respond well to both. I've not yet met an SLE who didn't love my blunt, no-bullshit approach to debate.
I didn't think of the victim/aggressor idea, that's a good one too.
EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962
I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strongI thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.
I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's. I should have elaborated, but you've done that for me-it's all goodd
we sometimes default into this function when we are stressed and/or depressed. I was the same as you, I would be much happier repressing my feelings towards someone else rather than hurting them. I was like that for a long time, and it took even longer for me to balance
and
EIE tritype 5w4, 4w5, 9w1
As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being.
Carl Jung, "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", 1962
Lol I'm not that old, i got a long way to go. I srsly don't know what to do...I like the idea of self discovery/and improving ones self. But i don't think i can do it by myself, i ned some guidelines D=, or i have to get out a lot. If you got any advice, pls feel free to pm me. -Btw i think* i got my E-type as 6w5, done all the mistypings that were common in a 6I don't know how old you are but I've been an ENFj for almost 30 yrs. now (lol) so I know the kind of defense mechanisms we use. You seem to be an emotional person, but since we have strongI thought* i was 4w5-but that was probably because i was depressed while taking it lol. I don't like to express my emotions to people unlike the 4w5, I like to repress them and act all ignorant to people. (Unless it's online i don't give a shit). But i'm still deciding between 4w5 and 5w4, so far 5w4 is 'winning', any assitance is appreciated.
I thought my example was satisfactory, dud atleast i said that SLE's were confused when that person said it was mean (lets just say they were actually offended)-just that i didn't mention anything on EIE's
Beta NF -
the question is what makes you think they are similar in the first place. the only thing they share is something as vague and unobservable as "values".
You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.
since we're apparently trading random offenses with no basis in reality, how about this:You would benefit from actual interaction with real people.
i bet you got yours from this site too: http://www.insultgenerator.org/; it makes about as much sense as the rest of them.
ENFjs are more stiff and emotional. ESTps are more relaxed and cool-headed.
I'd hardly classify SLEs as cool-headed. Relaxed though, sure.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Don't expect ENFjs to be decisive - such as picking where to eat, what they want to do in the future, staying focused on tasks.
Don't expect ENFjs to follow through with what they say, reply back to your emails/texts...
Even though these matters are very important to ENFjs, their
ESTps, on the other hand...
lol what.. does that have to do with Se?Don't expect ENFjs to be decisive - such as picking where to eat, what they want to do in the future, staying focused on tasks.
Don't expect ENFJs to follow through with what they say, reply back to your emails/texts...
Even though these matters are very important to ENFjs, their
ESTps, on the other hand...
You sound like you're talking about an IP or EP in general.
Nah dawg... I was referring to
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_Sensing"The individual tends to feel capable of achieving his goals, but hesitates on whether the path he is choosing is the right one. In these cases he needs to feel the support of others in order to be motivated to finally choose.
He likes to be involved in competitive and challenging endeavors and to see his will and personal power develop as he overcomes obstacles together with other people. However, he depends on others to provide the gusto and motivation for these endeavors."
Yeah, but god help us all if weak Se forbids them from answering an email.
Yeah, its pretty effin annoying at times
I see the opposite. SLEs are probably more cool-headed than relaxed, but in comparison to EIEs they seem more relaxed/flexible.
Also, I'm not sure I see follow-through as that EIE related. From what I see, a number of them seem to be fairly responsible. I would think its ntr.
tmi
Well, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.
If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.
I agree with that, stray.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I said those things to illustrate a general point- that they're pretty darn indecisive and their ability to just "do it" isn't on the level of Se-leading types. This doesn't mean that they're not responsible or anything, they completely value decisive decision making...They're just not too good at, hence needing assistance from their dual, LSI, who is very reliable. Now completely ignoring someone (which I didn't even mention), that's completely different...Well, what doesn't make sense to me is that people with Fe or Fi in their ego block often kind of dwell on their friends and/or relationships. Some of these things, like answering an email, shouldn't be ascribed to "Se". Just because it's an "action". lol. That could very well be a relationship thing and they may look forward to some interaction.. and even initiate, let alone reply.
If they are ignoring someone, I'd think it's just some extenuating circumstance.. maybe they don't like that person specifically.. maybe they're swamped.. maybe they have diarrhea and don't feel like sitting at the computer. You're right, it's not necessarily type related.. and it's not necessarily weak Se at the very least.
How do you see mobilizing
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-20-2011 at 10:42 PM.
In both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.How do you see mobilizing
The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.
In both EIE and LIE, I could see it as one thing that makes them appear like ESps at time. They can get carried away and give in to expressing aggravations, and be pushy or dominating. Steve Jobs is a possible example of an ENj who doesn't exactly need any help asserting his territory.How do you see mobilizing
The part you quoted about them feeling motivated around strong Se types is feeling energized about implementing longer term goals. Not on small shit, like needing to be pushed to answer an email or pick a restaurant.
Stray, since the restaurant and emailing back thing were small shit examples, let me give you another real life anecdote:
So one time I was back at my college gym, playing some basketball with some old friends. We usually play up to 11 points. As the end of the day was approaching, I started to leave, the rest of the gang wanted to play some more, though there was very little time till closing.
I noticed that one guy had to sit out, because we played 4 on 4, and there was a total of 9 guys. That one guy sitting out seemed upset.
My ENFj friend, who was in charge of setting up teams, saw this guy sitting out, and he didn't know what to do. He wanted everyone to play, have fun, but time was running out. But he just sat there, with the "what should I do" face, almost as if he was completely helpless.
I was really amused by this. For me, it was simple. I told him, "Just play up to 7 instead of 11, and include that guy sitting out in the next game." In this way, everyone can be included to play, instead of time running out with one guy leaving pissed.
The ENFj friend found this advice helpful, and immediately implemented it. It all happened so naturally.
--
Picking teams is small shit, but obviously the ENFj needed to be pushed to make a decision.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-20-2011 at 11:19 PM.
I'm not sure what that signified, but I don't see what he did as necessarily indecisive. It sounds more like both of you were aware, didn't need to be pushed to recognize the issue, but you had a creative solution due to more familiarity with the game. Like maybe he just didn't know what to do simply because his mind doesn't instantly go to details like that, how you could split it into two games. Not because he didn't want to. I guess, that could be Se, where you were better manuevering the "concrete" dynamics of the situation. While he was decisive with Fe by recognizing before others that this other dude was being excluded.
good insight!
Heh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.
Heh, Se related or not, that was nice of you to go out of your way for that person.Heh.. Well, actually it started reminding me of many situations I've been. I don't think I'm EIE, but I recognize situations like that sometimes. One with an LSI actually.. she was my last boss. There were a few disabled people in the workplace at the time, and one guy in particular drew my attention. I noticed he was walking after work (and the bus stop must've been two miles away). So I asked him about it, and started giving him rides. His whole life story was miserable actually.. but it started getting to me that I was the only recognizing it. And then I went to my boss.. and I guess I affected her a bit with being pissed off about the whole situation. I just didn't know what to do. It seemed to perk her up, and she started making calls, and getting a whole plan implemented to have the bus come to work and pick all of these people up.
Perhaps indecision is not the precise word. Maybe more like "not knowing the concrete steps to
Manuever oneself to their goals"...Which is basically indecision in my eyes lol. I guess this is where subjective perception comes into play, eh.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 06-21-2011 at 12:27 AM.
Yeah it could be indecision too.. While in other cases, it's just absent mindedness? Where what might be obvious to you wouldn't be the other way around. Another thing is that if NFs get enough experience in something, I think they'll come up with solutions too or draw parallels from experience and apply it to something new. They can even handle themselves in extreme situations, if they have experience. But I see it play out like you're saying often.Heh, Se related or not, that was nice of you to go out of your way for that person.
Perhaps indecision is not the precise word. Maybe more like "not knowing the concrete steps to
Manuever oneself to their goals"...Which is basically indecision in my eyes lol. I guess this is where subjective perception comes into play, eh.
Well, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
You could be N-IEI of some kind, but I'm of the mind that subtype doesn't actually accentuate functions. It accentuates temperament.
I have somewhat stronger Se than Ni, myself. I briefly self-typed SLE because of that, and some of the less retarded people around here seem to type me SLE.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
No it doesn't.
Accepting/producing is a dichotomy that separates the two functions of each block of Model A. Accepting functions 'come first' in each block and are odd-numbered: 1, 3, 5, and 7. Producing functions 'come second' and are even-numbered: 2, 4, 6, and 8.
What do these signs mean—
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Ni and Se are opposite ends of the same dichotomy. They are mutually exclusive. If Ni is accentuated then by definition of what a dichotomy is Se has to be weakened. Same relationship exists between Fe and Ti. Accepting IEI deemphasizes Fe, which means that in super-id block Ti gets accentuated. What you're saying above, that accepting sub emphasizes simultaneously both Ni and Se, as well as Ne and Si which are also dichotomous, is simply nonsensical … how do you even manage to reason yourself into such bs?Well, Siuntal is wrong. If you actually take a look at the subtype system, it's called "system of accepting and producing subtypes." Accepting and producing functions are divided by Rationality/Irrationality, rather than extroversion/introversion. Therefore, an Ni-sub would accentuate Ni, Se, Ne and Si.
Bumping for interest.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
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