When an Alpha SF has to use Se, what does it look like? How does it feel for them? How do they typically react to Se?
When an Alpha SF has to use Se, what does it look like? How does it feel for them? How do they typically react to Se?
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
they won't use it really.
The end is nigh
I didn't want to bring model x into it.
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
meh .. I'm derailing my own thread
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Well, back on topic... Jem, you're an Alpha SF yourself. How do you react if someone tries to bully you?
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I'm not sure I'm an Alpha SF ... but I tend to immediately feel pretty stubborn about not giving in. I guess it depends. Ideally, I'd just walk away. If I have to stand my ground, I tend to just resist rather than pushing back. If I think the person is not going to give in any time soon, I may let loose with an explosion of Fe to get them off my back. Shock tactics.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
My father is an ESE
As a child he felt obligated to stick up for those who could stick up for themselves.
But sadly he lets people walk all over him.
That's a perfect description of how I behave. I find it really easy to stand up for somebody else's rights, protect them etc and I do it whenever it's needed. It's more difficult for me to defend myself. I don't know, I was born to please people I'd quess .
Yeah, I had a bit tense situation with my INTj friend when he said he wasn't allowed to say vulgar words at our mutual friend's place, he did the washing up when she fed him and he wasn't allowed to belch .
He does all of these things at my place but I talked to him and he's going to stop .
My ESE husband did get in a fight once in school. And he has this sort of secret theory that I won't let him espouse to the kids that if someone hits you, hit them back. lol So... he avoids it but if confronted, he'll use it.
I think alpha SFs kind of ignore Se most of the time, discount it a bit as though it's not all that important but then when they have to, they can use it. Once they see that they can't fix the problem any other way.
IEI-Fe 4w3
I think that's a decent adage to harbor in the back of one's mind. Although, I know from experience that it can't always be used as a rationalization for confrontation (just see sean's thread about pushing some girls out of his way lol). But, I'd rather have a parent who accepted this idea generally, than rejected it under some bullshit pacifist rationalization.
4w3-5w6-8w7
There are others, but you're certainly the easiest one to find. So I could have rephrased that as "Let's see if Cracka responds."
Mind answering the question? How do you respond to bullying (both when you're bullied and when someone else is bullied)? (I'm sure you must have answered this question before, but... er, I'm not going to paralyze myself by searching via every possible method before I can post this!)
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
They can be pretty forceful...our SEI secretary yelled at the guys the other day for not putting new paper towels in the bathroom when they ran out. It was adorable.
ILE-Ti
6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)
Sigh. is being associated with force and willpower again.
4w3-5w6-8w7
lol yeah i remember those days...
Se perceives the actual, physical attributes of things. Like, "that is this shape" or "things are this way in actuality"
So Se-ers will often come across as forceful and aggressive because when they wish to make a change, they will attempt to alter things physically.
Punching someone in the face will change them physically.
Like with "possession."
If I am holding a suitcase I possess it. I have it in my grasp. You can see this physical variable. I have it or I don't. This is what an Se would see.
Now if you ripped the suitcase out of my hand YOU now possess it. An Se interprets this and understands this "there or its not" quality.
An Ne however, might have given this item (the suitcase) an essential, internal attribute "private property." "Property" is purely conceptual whereas "possession" is actual and concrete.
So not saying that these elements can't understand the difference, but they will perceive the circumstance differently and their philosophical ideology will prolly be somewhat influenced.
The end is nigh
Cool, I kinda thought dbmmama is also an ESE but I've never seen that confirmed, and Teddybeanz I just never knew much about.
As for the question on bullying, I only remember being bullied in school by 3 people when I was young. All three of them I got in fights with at some point, only one of those I actually had my ass totally kicked...lol. I usually just "let it go" to an extent, but when my "bully" would go too far, I couldn't. My parents were the type that said don't fight but knew that at some point you can't be someone's bitch.
My brother was also a bit of a bully until I got a bit bigger than him and when we fought I broke his cheek bone, twice...lol.
These days, I can't say I've been bullied at all by anyone... not that I can think of at least. As for other people being bullied, it's much like this place, if I see someone being an asshole to people I'll step in and say something. In a sense, I'd rather be a bully to someone elses bully if I think they need it. Having a career where I've never really been around younger people, it's just not something that's prevalent around me in real life anymore.
I'm not ESE, but I have a friend who I'm pretty sure is, so I can give my perspective that way. (Though, knowing how you are defining Se might be helpful; then I could know better how to answer your question.)
In terms of physical toughness, she's more so than me. Much more. Growing up with two older brothers and no sister might have influenced that. But in any case she would have absolutely no problems if/when she ever wanted to whup me. She played soccer when younger, and according to her own reports could be quite ferocious.
She's also definitely more spatially aware than me. That may be more Si, though.
In terms of non-physical forcefulness, it depends on the circumstance. She can be quite firm, especially when she's in charge. But I've never seen her be really mean about it. It's usually more like, "These are the rules/principles, and these are the consequences. I'm sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is." Sometimes she doesn't always see alternatives, but she's considerate of other people and tends to cater to their wants when possible.
I think sometimes I have more of an "allergic" reaction to people being controlling of me/us. She'll either go along with it (unless I point out why we shouldn't and offer an alternative), or just matter-of-factly break the rules or do things her way. I seem to have more inner turmoil over it all.
As far as bullying goes... I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure she'd defend me if I ever needed it. And she's said that when she was younger her brothers would pick on her. But she would often fight back.
Does that help at all?
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
I agree with basically all of what Minde says. Alpha SFs, especially ESEs, will definitely let you know when they are "in charge", although they are generally more subtle about it than ego types, and tend to avoid making power structures if possible. They also tend to be comfortable with firmly making decisions that affect other people - something intuitive types are horrendously bad at.
and ISFp is totally using Se right now on the Alpha drawball.
ILE-Ti
6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)
The end is nigh
boxxy approves this song.
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together