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Thread: Ritella's dual

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    You'd love that, wouldn't you.
    Actually, I think they are more restraining nowadays.

    When I talk to people about socionics, I try to speak in the most organic terms. I actually wonder that "profiles" might be problematic for people first coming to socionics - there is a great need for "correcting" over-stereotyping that takes place. Descriptions can reinforce viewing things a certain way - like some sort of evidence "see, this is what this says!", but in doing so limits actual understanding. I've been guilty of some of those things myself.

    It's a bit like thinking you can type someone completely by reading what they write online. There are truths there, but it's still filtered.

    What I try to do (and advocate) for people new to socionics at least, is make peole get away from socionics literature and realize what it is, "in real life" that is going on. Some socionics writing, or posts here, can be very very good. But I think it is very important to understand the entire context of what is being said. If you don't have the context, then the quality of understanding is limited. Even good writing can be misunderstood because the reader is not fully aware of the context. Once you are more experienced and have a more fundamental understanding of what socionics is and isn't, you can see more of what some of the writings are about (and that way you can begin to see when an author is writing something very well or poorly). But just reading profiles from the start, I don't really recommend that.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Good advice. For a second there I thought this whole thread might degrade into a debate on the words and context of the descriptions, with certain people interjecting their interpretations into things

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    All this talk about environmental obliviousness. pfft Ritella, use that mind of yours for some acute observation every now and then. Theories and ideas are nice and dandy, but there's nothing like the pure, visceral beauty in observing every vital detail of your surroundings, noticing interactions as they happen in the present with immense vigor, and just becoming generally experientially engulfed. This is coming from an Ni-INFp lol, so believe me. It may be different for you, using Si and whatnot, but I know that being more experientially and sensorily aware now (as opposed to my absent-minded past years), I feel a lot more alive.
    strrrng: beta victim, Se loving
    ritella: delta Ne&Si loving infantile.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Ritella, have you ever considered IEE?

    The Craftsman easily detects smallest deviations from esthetic standards in the surrounding world; such disharmony makes him feel distressed, awakes in him a feeling of discomfort, the desire to improve the situation, to perfect what he achieved or actually possesses – not only in the material world, but in his intellectual and spiritual development as well. This is why The Craftsman is exigent to himself and often also to the others. He likes nothing drab, trite and banal, strives for improvement of his own, his friends and family, beginning from the appearance and health, and up to the mental development. He is very curious, has wide range of interests, often he is not self-confident because of increased self-criticism. He needs praise of his capabilities, encouragement of his efforts.

    The Psychologist is just the kind of person who notices talents of the others, inspires them with belief in their capabilities, readily tells compliments. He notices even hidden capabilities and willingly encourages their development. This in turn very much commands respect of The Craftsman, who does not feel bored with such a partner. The Psychologist is useful to him also because he easily finds solutions to difficult situations, which would otherwise make The Craftsman feel depressed. Being thankful for that, The Craftsman takes care of the mental and external comfort of the one solving his internal problems.

    The Psychologist very much needs a caring partner and finds relaxation for his emotional and restless soul in the 'quiet haven' of a friend, who is constant in his words and deeds, reliable and faithful. The Craftsman creates convenience and comfort for The Psychologist, who is not much adapted to the real life, thus giving him the opportunity to focus on spiritual and intellectual values, generate new ideas, which will bring the taste of novelty into their common affairs.

    Everyday chores are usually undertaken by The Craftsman, who believes he can do them better. The Psychologist takes initiative in relations, can unite people around himself, and becomes the 'life of the party'. He gains people's favor, willingly advises on solving personal problems. He is a subtle psychologist, who understands well hidden motives of people. He emotionally demonstrates his attitude towards people; his sincerity, warmth and ingenuousness make others forgive his excessive straightforwardness and hot temper. He corrects The Craftsman's ethical mistakes, and often even his own, since he is not rancorous and likes people very much. His trustfulness disarms the incredulous Craftsman, and emotionality softens his more cold-tempered and reserved partner.

    The Craftsman is reticent enough and does not like to demonstrate his feelings. He can put a distance in communication, seems to be arrogant and non-sociable. But in the very depths of his soul he is thankful to the person who takes responsibility for ethical issues on himself. He likes The Psychologist's spirit of trust, whose permanent optimism, capability of foreseeing the future and perspectives of various undertakings, finding ways out of any problems. The Psychologist raises The Craftsman's confidence of the future, decrease his skepticism and mistrust towards everything new, not well known or not proven by practice. In addition, The Craftsman is sometimes excessively nervous and mistrustful; he exaggerates possible dangers not to mention real ones. But The Psychologist, who lives more in the future than in the present, 'calculates' everything in advance and in such moments call for caution, and at the same time calms down his partner when an alarm is false.

    The Craftsman is very technological and practical. He can work quickly and is well organized. He plans all stages of his work in advance, acquires all the necessary things in advance. He is enduring in perfecting details of his work, can separate important things from trifles, which is not an easy task for The Psychologist. The Psychologist's efficiency of working is high only in critical situations, while routine and monotonous, non-creative work deteriorates his vital tonus, being a source of boredom for this restless creative personality. The Psychologist gladly accepts a role of 'second' or 'assistant', which suits The Craftsman's commanding nature. The Craftsman does not like when others impose on him other ways of doing things than he would prefer. He is strives for real benefit and profit, unlike altruistic Psychologist, and this contributes to growth of material welfare of this dual pair.

    The Psychologist needs a partner indulgent enough to his weak points: negligence at work, lack of consideration to rules, norms and hierarchy, outbursts of non-motivated aggression. The Craftsman is indulgent to such, sometimes they even amuse him. He likes the independent nature of The Psychologist, which does not encroach on his own independence.

    The characteristic features of this dual pair are the independence from each other, as well as from others, harmony of relations and a restless spirit of creativity and self-development.
    A lot of what Rick said (though obviously not the bit about rationality) could be explained by this possibility. And the stuff that doesn't seem to fit could be explained by the Prozac.

    (btw Rick, thank you)

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    From what I understand, Ritella is not really considering her type, having settled on it long ago. I cannot personally see IEE due to her extreme rationality (the fixed mental state thing). It's like she was verbal the entire time, never settling into a different state of mind or just relaxing and focusing inwardly on something other than what was being discussed at the moment. Also, I did not get the identity "click" experience I have with people like Tereg, Ssmall, or Slackermom, where you sense that the person shares your basic lifestyle strivings.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    Makes sense.

    After almost tentatively settling on EII for you, I'm afraid I'm once again torn on your type, Ritella.

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    supre de dupre
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Just want to add that this is a terrible way of typing someone, and that Ritella is without a doubt INFj. You will notice her replies are all searching for ESTj within each description, whether it's there or not. There is no reason to keep this horrendous typing method on going. And it would be nice if we could please never do this again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Wow, a good thread on Ritella! (nice job on the descriptions, Joy -- that's a lot of work and it looks pretty convincing after it's done)

    ....
    LOL.
    Rick, I 100% agree COMPLETELY on all of your observations and socionic (and non-socionic) based conclusions from them. And, yeah, I didn't find that offensive at all. I think it's funny when people think I'm oblivious......except for when i unintentionally hurt people, as I almost did when I tripped over a guy 30 minutes ago.
    Wow, very perceptive, Rick. No wonder IEEs are called "the psychologist"!
    Okay, I may be making a video in the next 20 mins so y'all can see what he means. (How the hell do I make the shocked/embarassed emoticon faces?!)
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    except for when i unintentionally hurt people, as I almost did when I tripped over a guy 30 minutes ago.
    How badly is he hurt?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Ritella, have you ever considered IEE?



    A lot of what Rick said (though obviously not the bit about rationality) could be explained by this possibility. And the stuff that doesn't seem to fit could be explained by the Prozac.

    (btw Rick, thank you)
    I could respond to that description if you REALLY want me to, but for essentially the qualities that Rick listed, rationality is probably the most obvious thing about me, as well as intuition (and possibly introversion if you realize the everything I'm doing/saying is very internally processed and self-directed, though I may appear outgoing- i.e. Rick's extravorted introtim idea).
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    How badly is he hurt?
    oh geez. He just laughed and asked me out to dinner.
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    Just want to add that this is a terrible way of typing someone, and that Ritella is without a doubt INFj. You will notice her replies are all searching for ESTj within each description, whether it's there or not. There is no reason to keep this horrendous typing method on going. And it would be nice if we could please never do this again.
    This is a not great way of typing someone because, as I've said before, you shouldn't type people with knowledge of socionics based off of their reactions to clearly socionic descriptions.

    OTOH, I greatly appreciate the way in which Joy has handled this. Seriously, Joy. The whole thing feels very open and constructive and- hopefully, after you've all determined me EII - these stupid stereotypes can be broken and we can learn from our typing mistakes. If anyone is interested I can provide my own socionic interpretation of myself and my responses.

    I understand the need to maintain integrity by questioning people's types. However, there are certain individuals on this board who do so in a manner that is down-right off putting and distressing to the individual in question, resulting in purely defensive and reactionary responses in which no truly objective socionic conclusions can be gleamed.
    This is NOT constructive, and if we want to have a rigorous understanding of this field as well as encourage types to express themselves as they really and truly are, I or someone needs to establish a code of ethics in which to handle this matter.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    oh geez. He just laughed and asked me out to dinner.
    Is that him and you in your avatar?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Is that him and you in your avatar?
    I WISH!
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    OTOH, I greatly appreciate the way in which Joy has handled this. Seriously, Joy. The whole thing feels very open and constructive and- hopefully, after you've all determined me EII - these stupid stereotypes can be broken and we can learn from our typing mistakes. If anyone is interested I can provide my own socionic interpretation of myself and my responses.
    Thank you, you've been very receptive, patient, and construction through this discussion as well.

    I understand the need to maintain integrity by questioning people's types. However, there are certain individuals on this board who do so in a manner that is down-right off putting and distressing to the individual in question, resulting in purely defensive and reactionary responses in which no truly objective socionic conclusions can be gleamed.
    This is NOT constructive, and if we want to have a rigorous understanding of this field as well as encourage types to express themselves as they really and truly are, I or someone needs to establish a code of ethics in which to handle this matter.
    Many people will fight for their type as though their life depends on it (some to a greater extent than others) because they use their type to define themselves. Telling someone "no, you're not who you think you are", especially in a combative way which also insults their intelligence (that is, their ability to understand the theory) will always be very likely to solicit a strongly negative and defensive reaction. Challenging someone's sense of who they are is enough to create enemies and split communities, as has clearly been demonstrated in the English speaking Socionics community. The more someone needs to believe in their vision of themselves, the more desperately and possibly violently they will defend their type.

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    OK ARG. I feel like I'm going to regret this. But, be nice. I haven't slept in 4 days and I was really nervous since I've never recorded myself before. And sorry for all the "likes." I do use that word pretty frequently, but not THAT frequently....I think...





    EDIT: lol. I love how the screen shot that's frozen on the first video makes it look like i'm screaming or about to hurl. thank you, youtube.com. mom would be so proud.
    also, i posted test clips to my user page.
    Last edited by Ritella; 12-10-2008 at 09:31 AM.
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Nice vid

    You're clearly Ne/Si. Ne INFj works well

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    lol ritella <3 you're awesome


    very clear: Ne-INFj. sx/sp 6w5 seems like a safe bet as well.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Nice. Now go get some sleep. I can send you scientific research that proves that not sleeping is harmful to your health.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    Pretty obvious INFj-Ne, as expected.
    I actually know another INFj-Ne who has terrible insomnia and stays awake for days / sleeps for days

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    You're great, Ritella. (c: Yeah, go get some sleep. :-p
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    i doubted a little that you were INFj. Things like Majoring in pure math's just seem a bit odd for a feeling type to me. I suppose all of the "smart" people ive met have been typically smart in their areas related to their strong functions. Although my INFj friend and INFj lecturer come to think of it do like showing off they are good at maths lol.

    After watching your video though i think its highly likely. Just the way you talk and your facial expressions remind me of the INFj's i know. Your facial expressions are more erratic than say an ENFp's imo. I think you are the same type in fact as my friend
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Priceless.

    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Watching those videos made me think: Ritella definitely, definitely needs an ST as a dual.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Watching those videos made me think: Ritella definitely, definitely needs an ST as a dual.
    I concur.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    (Particularly a delta ST, with strong Si to calm her down)

    When I first watched that video I was like "woooooaaaah clam down, missy"
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    (Particularly a delta ST, with strong Si to calm her down)

    When I first watched that video I was like "woooooaaaah clam down, missy"
    that sounds like john wayne calming down a horse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    that sounds like john wayne calming down a horse.
    LOL

    Well you could call her a white little pony, I guess.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Ritella needs Hondo - did anyone ever see that movie? He might be a little more Te than Si, but he'd at least keep her safe in strange places.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Ritella needs Hondo - did anyone ever see that movie? He might be a little more Te than Si, but he'd at least keep her safe in strange places.
    yeah, watched that one twice in the past few months.

    i can see that.

    my kids love how he's about to throw her in the river when she cant swim. lol

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    Hondo was cool.


    She probably, really, though, needs to find someone who is some sort of athletics coach, or into physical training, but more intelligent. I think Hondo's "ima simple cowboy with timeless morals" wouldn't float her boat that much. She's a big city girl.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

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    aww christ. stop hijacking my thread with Hondo. I don't even know who or what that is.
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    She probably, really, though, needs to find someone who is some sort of athletics coach, or into physical training, but more intelligent. I think Hondo's "ima simple cowboy with timeless morals" wouldn't float her boat that much. She's a big city girl.
    This sounds too funny to be serious...
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

  35. #75
    dbmmama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Hondo was cool.


    She probably, really, though, needs to find someone who is some sort of athletics coach, or into physical training, but more intelligent. I think Hondo's "ima simple cowboy with timeless morals" wouldn't float her boat that much. She's a big city girl.
    then maybe i am Ni PolR, but an LSE. im coaching my sons football team this season and you know how much i love working out. lol

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    This sounds too funny to be serious...
    it is funny, but a good movie too.

  37. #77
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    you are fuckin hot... wow

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    then maybe i am Ni PolR, but an LSE. im coaching my sons football team this season and you know how much i love working out. lol
    Hmm I was trying to say that I think Hondo wouldn't be sophisticated enough for her, but I don't think I portrayed "modern caregiver" very well. Oh well. I have to go back to reviewing : /
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

    ~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
    ~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.

  39. #79
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    Ritella, I don't know what type you are, but, going by appearance alone, you remind me of my ENTj sister-in-law. We have the type of relationship that, there's nothing going on on the surface that says that we are annoyed with each other, but, underneath, there are little things about the other person's personality that bother us. For example, during the summer, to save money, she barely runs the air-conditioning and it's sweltering in her apartment. I don't tell her that it gets on my nerves, but it does. However, I don't think that you have the same type as her. Although you look similar, you both have a different style of expression. For example, when she speaks, she's more controlled and calculated. This goes to show that VI is not always reliable.

    Jason

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    Well I'm convinced. That settles it then.

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