Ni-PoLR -- How does it manifest in ESFjs and ESTjs?

[Joy]

How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?

[Ritella]

How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?

Me! I <3 ESEs!
Why is this a thread?

[munenori2]

How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?

Not even sure what that would mean.

[Joy]

Could mean different things. In this case, for the most part it probably means that a Ni PoLR makes sense for them... not just that they're presumably ESxj and therefore must have a Ni PoLR.

[crazedrat]

I grew up with one.
Basically, it means this:
Edit:
I will procrastinate dealing with complex problems until the world falls down around me

[Joy]

Which of the eight aspects of reality are you referring to?

[Joy]

(but in any case, healthy people don't do that, regardless of their type)

[crazedrat]

yeah, says santa clause and the easter bunny

[strrrng]

How many of you have actually lived with or worked closely with or have had a close friend with a confirmed Ni PoLR?

Si-ESFj 2w3 so/sp mom -- shocker, I know. And a bunch of machismo douche bag husbands in my neighborhood are ESTjs. The way this magnificent phenomenon seems to operate is, essentially, lacking a propensity for implicit, abstract connections between things. From an Ni base perspective, these people seem pedantic and unable to process anything that isn't spelled out neatly for them. They would probably see me as someone who is overly-vague and lacking clarity in thought/communication. I've never witnessed any time management crap being related to Ni polr, and I hope this thread doesn't get bombarded with such things. ESxj's just seem really, really concrete and unable to traverse outside of the current, externally-defined context/dynamic that they are operating in.

[crazedrat]

Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.

[Ritella]

this is hilarious, because this is exactly how i feel toward Ne-PoLR types.

[strrrng]

Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.

lol +20

this is hilarious, because this is exactly how i feel toward Ne-PoLR types.

Ne polr types seem to make the implicit connections fine to me; it's just that they seem unable to sort of permutate anything externally. They will frequently take an overly-definitive attitude towards a given idea, which may have validity up to a certain point, but inevitably will cause them to miss some other angles. But theirs is different than the ESxj's -- the former being inept at seeing the external connections/interpolations, the latter being inept at synthesizing things internally. A matter of being unwilling to break anything down vs. sucking at centralizing.

[UDP]

Ne polr types seem to make the implicit connections fine to me; it's just that they seem unable to sort of permutate anything externally. They will frequently take an overly-definitive attitude towards a given idea, which may have validity up to a certain point, but inevitably will cause them to miss some other angles. But theirs is different than the ESxj's -- the former being inept at seeing the external connections/interpolations, the latter being inept at synthesizing things internally. A matter of being unwilling to break anything down vs. sucking at centralizing.

Must be my Te polr.

That's very good.

Now, if you can just stop getting giddy with your lols and realize when you're taking emotionally charged biases against people based on your likes and dislikes, you could get even better; that's what's annoying, at times (to me). But I like what you wrote there - you seem to have more understanding now than before, and it's nice to see the growth and better ability to explain things well.

PS: I think I am starting to understand (that type of behavioral) better, though, in terms of your loling and emotionality stuff. It seems to be a matter of realizing when you're just "roasting things" for sake of "generating energy", versus when you're actually just trying to explain something fully. When you mix the two together, both seem less weighty. But that is perhaps related to my own lack of understanding about such things.

(I wrote this post in reference to "strrrng", but there's a lot of carry over to other people I know who are like him and have similar motivations and tendencies)

[Steve]

Basically what Strrrng said. Almost like they think critical thinking is rude, or it isn't cool.
When you say something to them which isn't having to do with the immediate world, they get this deer in the headlights look and go into a mode where they try to pretend they know what you're talking about.

what happens in an argument, is you repeat yourself until you end up saying one sentence over and over again. then after much resistance they agree with you, and then a few hours later go on and do the opposite.

It's also worth noting they have almost no ability to learn from their mistakes, or recognize the causes of their mistakes.

I've actually noticed this with both N-PoLR types when confronted with their PoLR function. With ESFjs, they focus on trying to preserve the Fe dynamic and the harmony that's there so they may phobicly comply with whatever the supervisor is saying or try to divert attention away from it. With ESTjs, particularly Te ESTjs, if you throw a lot of Ni at them they react like this rat trying to run through this maze, bumping into walls, turning around, running in circles, because it seems that without their Si groundwork, their Te will just be like one of those wind up cars that you wind up and it just runs aimlessly - hitting and bouncing off whatever it will. A car without a driver. Heh that's probably why they're afraid of it. Throwing a lot of Ni at a ESTj is like telling them to drive but without the road. And lol I don't know why I've been more amused at ESTjs handling Ni than I have ESFjs handling it.

With Ne PoLR:

I notice a similar phobic response to Ne particularly with Ti ISTjs. You try to show them the different external manifestations in the world or the "shortcuts" to take to accomplish a certain external goal and they give the deer in the headlights look too. They'd rather stick to the way that they know gets them where they need to get. I may explain to them how the shortcut I came up with makes things easier or how it accomplishes the same essential purpose as their more drawn out method. They'll listen, seemingly understand the logic of it, but then continue to do things in their same way as if I hadn't said anything.

[strrrng]

That's true, I have seen Ni polr manifest itself as time retardation. But strrrngs sentiments are more to do with not having people think of it only in those terms, which is likely to happen given peoples bookworm understanding of socionics and seeming lack of real world experience.

I will admit that my Si-ESFj mom is a retard when it comes to estimating timing. Usually it has to do with how long it will take her to arrive at a place via car. When I conceptualize it, I take into account the general effects of traffic, and sort of get a rough visual of the path. She seems to just randomly choose a number and stick by it, to linearize the process or something.

Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.

I actually agree, lol. It seems that if you cloak whatever you're saying in good enough literal terms, that they won't be able to peer underneath to what's really going on. While the Fe of ESFj's may be adept at reading peoples' emotions, it's bound to the external context of Si, making it very ostensibly based. And ESTjs...lol don't even go there.

Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.

I think this is right. They will listen to you so much as the FeSi harmony isn't perturbed. And sometimes they'll get in this ******y mode where they actually think they're integrating what you're saying into that dynamic -- more so the Si normative function -- when in reality you're just trying to get the point through their head. And then they'll pretend to get it, and offer some facile Ne correlation, and get all happy that people are getting along. They just do not want the Si continuum upset by Se "splashes" (picture a placid pond), nor do they want anything "out of nowhere" being introduced.

[crazedrat]

True, strrrng.
And these types are also terrible at getting away with lies. My ESTj-Te brother in law has gotten caught 4 or 5 times cheating on my ENFj sister. But what makes this of interest, is all times he's gotten caught because he didn't delete text messages off his cellphone. He never learns his lesson. Basically she notices he has his phone on vibrate, and next time it rings she acts like she'll get the phone for him to be helpful. He spazzes out with some transparent on the fly cover for why she doesn't need to get the phone for him. Later she looks at his emails. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again soon

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Good thread.

I say yes, anything that is about linking abstract concepts, or complex inner worlds. I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.) Not only do Ni dominants have the ability to connect time and continuity in the real world, we can also do it for make-believe ones as well.

They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', which frustrates me to no end, because I know there has to be an emotional release and a psychological process to overcome big life changes. At least I know that's where it has to start. They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.

They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.

They very much enjoy the emotional release of a preacher attempting to wrinkle out philosophical and moral complexities, but do not think about them further nor are they capable of connecting one abstract concept to the next. So they lack creativity. They're too easily impressed by 'Oprah pop 101 psychology' and shake and shudder at the real thing. Also they can be quite naive if somebody is claiming to 'Help' somebody, when the helper might not have any clue what they're talking about and would only make the situation worse.

I notice I have to CONSTANTLY guide Ni-polrs from going to bad psychologists and therapists and preachers and 'gurus'.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I do think my ESE husband has a harder time than I do with adapting to changes. In general. Getting his bearings in unfamiliar territory. That's why when we travel, I'm the one who does the planning, the mapping out, the leading, etc. He's a little bit deer-in-the-headlights with that stuff. Which always is surprising to me for some reason but I'm getting used to it. (after 15 years, lol)

That might not be type related. I don't know. I think that's just an experience/level of confidence thing.

[redbaron]

Good thread.

I say yes, anything that is about linking abstract concepts, or complex inner worlds. I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.) Not only do Ni dominants have the ability to connect time and continuity in the real world, we can also do it for make-believe ones as well.

They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', which frustrates me to no end, because I know there has to be an emotional release and a psychological process to overcome big life changes. At least I know that's where it has to start. They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.

They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.

They very much enjoy the emotional release of a preacher attempting to wrinkle out philosophical and moral complexities, but do not think about them further nor are they capable of connecting one abstract concept to the next. So they lack creativity. They're too easily impressed by 'Oprah pop 101 psychology' and shake and shudder at the real thing. Also they can be quite naive if somebody is claiming to 'Help' somebody, when the helper might not have any clue what they're talking about and would only make the situation worse.

I notice I have to CONSTANTLY guide Ni-polrs from going to bad psychologists and therapists and preachers and 'gurus'.

Well, let's see. My ESE husband LOVES the Fellowship of the Ring books, the Hobbit, stuff like that. So I dunno.

I agree that they don't have a good sense for when something ideally should be done. And he DEFINITELY has a hard time admitting that he's upset until suddenly he explodes and I'll be like "where did this come from??" and it's a huge deal. Then he'll be like I don't want to have to explain it to you if you can't figure it out on your own and I'm like

My husband hates Oprah. I'll say that much for him. He has a high level of disregard for pop psychology. In fact, he's pretty skeptical of this personality stuff. He doesn't want to be labeled and put in a box.

[DirectorAbbie]

My husband hates Oprah. I'll say that much for him. He has a high level of disregard for pop psychology. In fact, he's pretty skeptical of this personality stuff. He doesn't want to be labeled and put in a box.

I love being put in a box! I just haven't found one that fit me until now. Here's my label: Christian ESTj-Te, E1, Φ000

[munenori2]

Well, let's see. My ESE husband LOVES the Fellowship of the Ring books, the Hobbit, stuff like that. So I dunno.

I agree that they don't have a good sense for when something ideally should be done. And he DEFINITELY has a hard time admitting that he's upset until suddenly he explodes and I'll be like "where did this come from??" and it's a huge deal. Then he'll be like I don't want to have to explain it to you if you can't figure it out on your own and I'm like

My husband hates Oprah. I'll say that much for him. He has a high level of disregard for pop psychology. In fact, he's pretty skeptical of this personality stuff. He doesn't want to be labeled and put in a box.

Maybe I'm Ni-PoLR?

[Steve]

Good thread.

I say yes, anything that is about linking abstract concepts, or complex inner worlds. I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.) Not only do Ni dominants have the ability to connect time and continuity in the real world, we can also do it for make-believe ones as well.

They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', which frustrates me to no end, because I know there has to be an emotional release and a psychological process to overcome big life changes. At least I know that's where it has to start. They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.

They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.

They very much enjoy the emotional release of a preacher attempting to wrinkle out philosophical and moral complexities, but do not think about them further nor are they capable of connecting one abstract concept to the next. So they lack creativity. They're too easily impressed by 'Oprah pop 101 psychology' and shake and shudder at the real thing. Also they can be quite naive if somebody is claiming to 'Help' somebody, when the helper might not have any clue what they're talking about and would only make the situation worse.

I notice I have to CONSTANTLY guide Ni-polrs from going to bad psychologists and therapists and preachers and 'gurus'.

I feel like a lot of what you described is enneagram related - with like unhealthy 2s or 3s. Also I think what you're talking about I see more with ESFjs > ESTjs in terms of that motivational stuff. ESFjs are more the guys who teach and go to those classes at the learning annex to empower you and give you the motivation it takes to be a millionaire lol.

[Suz]

Good thread.

I've never seen a Ni polr get too involved in a book or imaginary world. (They can like guilty pleasures but nothing ever abstract or grand scheme-y.)

They brush off complex problems with a just 'Get over it!', They tend to break through problems with raw force at the expense of analyzing their true feelings, which works for them because hey, something is always getting done - but it doesn't end up ideally at all, which is what the Ni-type needs. (Or maybe I'm just talking about IEIs) They make stupid decisions by their 'just do it' philosophy, lacking the sense and time of when something should ideally be executed. They try to cover this up by more and more actions, when what they really need to do is sit the fuck down already and pay closer attention to their own emotions and thought processes.

They're rarely honest with their own emotions, but will constantly chastise others if they see them being down. They're unable to admit that they're really upset, and kinda go along until they explode. This EJ-ness upsets IP to no end.

yeah i can resonate with these to some extent, actually. Although i dont feel that my decisions are stupid. But maybe from a time judgement standpoint they can be stupid, sure. It's just that i consider other things in my decision making, and i suck at considering/estimating time (though am getting better at it over the years, and situationally). Actually, when i'm stressed and the fire is under my butt, i do better with time planning.

but i think people in the chatbox here even have witnessed me being a bit callous with my "snap out of it" mentality. It's how i approach life myself.... life is too short with too many awesome opportunities out there, to be wallowing in defeat, rejection, failure, what have you. And in the rare event that i myself start wallowing, i appreciate when someone reminds me to snap out of it too.

In regards to being in touch with one's own emotions, i actually kind of think being too focused on my own emotions is bad for me... also a separate issue is that sometimes i dont want to make a certain emotion official too quickly because my feelings about something might change, or it might be something so inconsequential that it's better left unbothered -- more peaceful, and easier on everyone including myself. If it's a recurrent problem, then yes it will come out eventually.

[crazedrat]

Lol, so you say 'by not voting I essentially voted for both candidates', then you argue that into the ground.
You have to admit, it can be fun baiting Ni polr.
It seems unusual for an ESFj to destroy the mood of things over something like that; but then again, I really can't imagine an ESTj caring so much about voting.

Admittedly, my mother always has this urgency bordering on panic tone in her voice when discussing possible outcomes of the most trivial things.
Some of this is also Ne HA function.

Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.

[cracka]

Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.

While there's quite a few things that make me cringe a bit when reading this thread, I can't deny many of them are true. I will however single this one out as considerably wrong, at least to me. While it may seem like you're able to lie to an ESFJ, I'd bet that much of the time... in the back of their mind, all they're thinking is: "Ugh, this guy is so full of shit."
I would say I'm pretty hard for a person to lie to, in real life of course... Whether we bring it up that we think you're full of shit is another story, much of the time I just let things roll off as if whatever lie I was just told really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless I feel like being a prick, then I'll call their lie and see a funny looking followed by a .

[UDP]

Originally Posted by crazedrat
Another thing which isn't being mentioned here, is these Ni polr types have nearly no ability to see through lies. If you give them an excuse which involves multiple elements, they won't be able to discriminate whether it's likely to have happened or not. They'll get caught up in the 'well, it's possible'. As long as the excuse could have possibly happened, then they seem to just accept it and dismiss the whole deal.

While there's quite a few things that make me cringe a bit when reading this thread, I can't deny many of them are true. I will however single this one out as considerably wrong, at least to me. While it may seem like you're able to lie to an ESFJ, I'd bet that much of the time... in the back of their mind, all they're thinking is: "Ugh, this guy is so full of shit."
I would say I'm pretty hard for a person to lie to, in real life of course... Whether we bring it up that we think you're full of shit is another story, much of the time I just let things roll off as if whatever lie I was just told really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Unless I feel like being a prick, then I'll call their lie and see a funny looking followed by a .

For me it's more that I think everyone is suspicious and trust very few. I don't fall for lies very often, but I'm more prone to seeing enemies when there are none.

Usually Ti & Fe will mean the ESFj does listen to what you have to say, but due to their polr they just don't get it; and they seem to be primarily interested in preserving the stability of the situation at all times, to the point where this cripples their ability to face things.

ESTj, on the other hand, is more like a volcanic dumbass, and the ESTj in my life I'm thinking of reminds me of the guy you describe; I can even see the Steve Irwin analogy; I put it up to a repressed longing for Ne & Fi. It's like he's putting on a show to win peoples emotions.

Hmm.
I relate to volcanic dumbass. When I'm angry I just have to step away from things otherwise I just attack. Being so angry actually acts as a sort of "shutoff" from taking in information, which is bad, and I think can definitely make me stupider or at least act stupider.

After we get into arguments he makes a strong point of apologizing, will admit he was wrong, and even buys me stuff...

It just takes him a while, he has to sit on it and think about it; he cannot do this in the heat of an argument or make himself appear the least bit civil. I guess all people are different.

I relate to that. Unless I 'catch myself', and really think about the consequences of things, "how I feel" takes precedence. It's worse when I don't realize what's going on, and get so caught up in things that I don't see the effects of what I'm doing in the relational or personal sphere.

[redbaron]

I hate getting into politics with him because of this. Yeah, I really do not think they can't see through lies or bullshit and they wont listen to anthers views once they have theirs set in stone... Yes, eventually they could admit they could eventually make a connection and see that they are wrong, but it takes forever for them to come to this conclusion.

This is totally not true for my ESE. That would drive me bonkers. My husband is really good at listening to other points of view. I even changed his mind on the death penalty stance. That was years ago. But anyway, he's good at admitting when he's wrong, and not just about political ideas. He says he's sorry more than I do (for things like not being as patient as he should be with the kids or for emotionally over-reacting to things).

[Not A Communist Shill]

In defence of those who have a Ni-PoLR, I once had my wallet stolen by an INFp.

[redbaron]

After we get into arguments he makes a strong point of apologizing, will admit he was wrong, and even buys me stuff...

It just takes him a while, he has to sit on it and think about it; he cannot do this in the heat of an argument or make himself appear the least bit civil. I guess all people are different.

this depends on how emotionally invested he is in the topic at hand. And when converting his views on things, it's not an immediate thing. It definitely takes awhile for him to come to a new conclusion. I didn't mean to imply that he would immediately agree with me. The change of his opinion on the death penalty was over the course of months, maybe a year.

[Trevor]

I've never witnessed any time management crap being related to Ni polr, and I hope this thread doesn't get bombarded with such things.

Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".
My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
As you said:

ESxj's just seem really, really concrete and unable to traverse outside of the current, externally-defined context/dynamic that they are operating in.

[crazedrat]

That's true, I have seen Ni polr manifest itself as time retardation. But strrrngs sentiments are more to do with not having people think of it only in those terms, which is likely to happen given peoples bookworm understanding of socionics and seeming lack of real world experience.
For example, there was this day I had 30 minutes until work, so my ride (ESFj-Fe mother) decided to run to the mall 'real quick'. She got caught in traffic both on the way there, and in the parking garage; and then she didn't consider the 5 minute walk INTO the mall, then back. It took her an hour, and I ended up 30 minutes late for work. She is also terrible at estimating traveling times. Like we'll always arrive at the airport hours early, then sit around for 2-3 hours. If we need to drive to the store real fast, it'll 'just take 5 minutes' .. where there's no way it'll take less then 20. etc.
My ESTj-Te bro quit his new job because he was 10 minutes late. So he decided not to go in at all.
etc.

[Slacker]

Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but they are much worst things than that".
My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
As you said:

That's the opposite of what I've seen. Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual. An example - my ESFj and ISFp inlaws were visiting at my house, and they were supposed to go hang out with my ENTj and ENFj parents. I told them how hyper-punctual my parents were and had to work hard to get them out of the house, because they are usually late to things. I got them out at least close to on time, but TWO MINUTES after they were supposed to be there, my parents called asking why they were late.

Also, my ISTp husband, not Ni PoLR but weak and unvalued Ni anyway, is always late. He will tell me he'll be back at 1 and I just translate it in my head to 1:30 to 1:40 or so. And it's worse if he's out with his ESTj friend. They just don't pay attention at all to the time. If they say they'll be back at 1, I might end up calling at 4 to see where they are.

[crazedrat]

Yeah, you're right. They are often late on accident; or because they really don't give shit; they don't recognize the obligation. But I also think they're the folks who become annoyed BY lateness, where a Ni dominant type will adapt to the new schedule with no effort; and this may be because the lateness itself brings up the topic of Ni.

[Trevor]

Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual.

I guess that was a typo. You meant Ni-PoLRs.

I've never said that Ni-PoLRs are punctual. But they really appreciate when others are. They all have "if I don't undertake this/that/everything now, then world is going to fall apart"-attitude. So existance of schedules saves them from burnout. Otherwise they would be even more lost-in-the-fog.

[Suz]

That's the opposite of what I've seen. Si-PoLRs are often late, and people with strong Ni are ultra punctual. An example - my ESFj and ISFp inlaws were visiting at my house, and they were supposed to go hang out with my ENTj and ENFj parents. I told them how hyper-punctual my parents were and had to work hard to get them out of the house, because they are usually late to things. I got them out at least close to on time, but TWO MINUTES after they were supposed to be there, my parents called asking why they were late.

Also, my ISTp husband, not Ni PoLR but weak and unvalued Ni anyway, is always late. He will tell me he'll be back at 1 and I just translate it in my head to 1:30 to 1:40 or so. And it's worse if he's out with his ESTj friend. They just don't pay attention at all to the time. If they say they'll be back at 1, I might end up calling at 4 to see where they are.

I think it's probably both extremes... that'show POLRs usually are. "All or nothing."

[FDG]

Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".
My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

Actually, I hate when things are late too (I also hate to be late myself, so I am always super punctual - but I also know ENTjs that don't have this fixation, so I can't chalk it up to type). One of the things I can tolerate less in others is consistent lateness. I can't really live for them (if somebody is late 3 hours to a meeting, I don't go doing something else - I keep on waiting them, so it's 3 hours of my life completely wasted).

[betterthan]

LOL. My mother is an ESTj.

A couple of weeks ago this went down...

Mum; Oh look there is some pizza out on the side, we already have soup out...so we should have that for dinner, right?

Step dad; urh... (just a wondering, innocent 'urhh' btw )

Mum (SCREAMING); There is fucking soup out!!! Okay?! (in an incredibly patronizing way) So-we-are-putting-the-pizza-back-in-the freezer!

LMAO. What the hell? Me and my EIE sister just crack up at how ridiculous she is sometimes!

And she is always up in everyone’s face saying dumbarse things, like having a go at you about nothing, and she just carries on having a go at you even after you have explained yourself. And shes always screaming when there is nothing even wrong. Like at the cat, when its just walking along... . Just ughh like so dogmatic, and oblivious to everything that doesn't fit in with what she thinks is.

And hypocritical! She is always yelling at us about how we can't be late, so we get in the car and she is in the house for another 10 mins, and she’s all like -well its not my fault-.

One time she hit my sister around the head because my sister said she had 'cleaned the car'. And she screamed -no you haven't you fucking idiot child', and then like slapped her (she had only cleaned the outside and not the inside and she didn't even have to she was just trying to be nice). And then that same sister is all like -Oh you should respect her- and its like well she’s a total crazy, nasty fool who doesn't respect anyone else so why should I respect her? She has never given me anything to respect.

She can't take responsibility for anything, she never says sorry or that she is wrong. Shes just a total bullying, dense, emotionally stunned idiot , who is clueless in relationships.

I do love her, I just can't stand her.

[The Greeter]

LOL. My mother is an ESTj.

A couple of weeks ago this went down...

Mum; Oh look there is some pizza out on the side, we already have soup out...so we should have that for dinner, right?

Step dad; urh... (just a wondering, innocent 'urhh' btw )

Mum (SCREAMING); There is fucking soup out!!! Okay?! (in an incredibly patronizing way) So-we-are-putting-the-pizza-back-in-the freezer!

LMAO. What the hell? Me and my EIE sister just crack up at how ridiculous she is sometimes!

And she is always up in everyone’s face saying dumbarse things, like having a go at you about nothing, and she just carries on having a go at you even after you have explained yourself. And shes always screaming when there is nothing even wrong. Like at the cat, when its just walking along... . Just ughh like so dogmatic, and oblivious to everything that doesn't fit in with what she thinks is.

And hypocritical! She is always yelling at us about how we can't be late, so we get in the car and she is in the house for another 10 mins, and she’s all like -well its not my fault-.

One time she hit my sister around the head because my sister said she had 'cleaned the car'. And she screamed -no you haven't you fucking idiot child', and then like slapped her (she had only cleaned the outside and not the inside and she didn't even have to she was just trying to be nice). And then that same sister is all like -Oh you should respect her- and its like well she’s a total crazy, nasty fool who doesn't respect anyone else so why should I respect her? She has never given me anything to respect.

She can't take responsibility for anything, she never says sorry or that she is wrong. Shes just a total bullying, dense, emotionally stunned idiot , who is clueless in relationships.

I do love her, I just can't stand her.

Interesting, but I don't think this is typical ESTj behaviour or typical of any type for that matter.

[crazedrat]

Yes Dinki, my sister is married to an ESTj just like that. He actually does everything in there. He also chronically steals womens underwear and wears it throughout the day. He actually stole my grandmothers underwear recently ...

[Suz]

Why not? 27 month ago I've asked my ESFj-Si friend what annoys him most. He said that he can't tolerate when people are being late. At that time I didn't knew anything about socionics and I found his answer to be very strange and I was thinking: "OK that can be annoying but there are much worse things than that".
My ESTj father gets really, really angry when TV-program doesn't follow schedule. Even one minute of discrepancy is accompanied by cursing and swearing.

Si is "now and here", Ni is "everywhere except now". So if you're ESxj (especially Si-subtype) you're in deep trouble if someone constantly applies "everywhere except now" -Ni on you.
As you said:

I am still trying to figure out whether or not I'm Ni-POLR, but i will say that i have actually ended friendships with people who demonstrated lack of respect for my time. This however, does not refer to people who have been under 30 min late, or people who had extenuating circumstances, or something like that. It had to be a recurrent problem of making me wait for unreasonable amounts of time without a heads up that they are running late, and being unreachable when they are MIA.

That said, i'm quite forgiving of people running late, it's just that it's respectful and considerate to give me a heads up about that. I am sometimes running late myself, and i make it a point to do same if i am going to be making people wait (usually it's extenuating circumstances too, or me having gotten lost, etc).