I'm jumping ship

[jessica129]

I am the same. I feel like I have to watch what I say but it is more because I can be kind of blunt, which I think could come off as "mean" at times, since there's no facial expression and/or mannerisms to accompany it. I worry that I'll be misinterpreted or worse offend someone or hurt their feelings without meaning to.

Exactly.

....random thoughts, I thought dbmamma was istj? Or at least, that's the impression I got.

[redbaron]

Exactly.

....random thoughts, I thought dbmamma was istj? Or at least, that's the impression I got.

really??? I must have missed something. could be I guess!

[Joy]

The world may never know.

[dbmmama]

Exactly.

....random thoughts, I thought dbmamma was istj? Or at least, that's the impression I got.

i think kristiina would have something to say about that!

[tiny_dancer]

Whoa! Fwiw, this is almost exactly my reaction to a group of Gammas (but along a different line)! I was just having a conversation with idolatrie about this yesterday, because some of our friends (prep school kids?) are Gamma and they were having a party and it was weirdly alienating. It's just becuase I'm looking at something I value (Se), but it's blocked in with Fi/Te and I kind of find it weirdly repulsive. For one thing, I find Fi/Te types SAY explicitly what Fe/Ti implies, so all of a sudden I'm surrounded by people who actually say things like 'well, status is quite important to me -- so blackberry or iphone?' and I'm staring at them like horns are growing out of their heads because surely it's too gauche to actually say that aloud? And also, I find when Betas are being 'show-offy' and 'pretentious', we do it as more of a reflection of our own personal awesomeness -- so we read the The New Yorker (which I do, actually, as I do attend a lot of cocktail parties) and we assume it shows that we belong to an echelon of people who have like, the awesomest/most sophisticated taste etc. Whilst Gammas say it in a more 'this is the establishment' sort of sense. There's a lot more emphasis on MONEY (esp. old money), attending certain schools (legacies, omg), going to certain specific places -- it's so much more 'cliquish' and 'established' -- and a lot of it is personal connections -- who you know/your family knows -- who you have on call -- what connections you can leverage etc. It's all so much more serious, established and incontrovertible.

Yeah - it depends on the person and the social circle, I think. I know maaaany gammas, and only 2 of them do this. One wants to be a senator, and the other is 'old money' and enjoys knowing the best chefs, established artists, etc. The others I know do focus on being good business people and are committed to their relationships (personal & business), but none of them are arrogant where money is concerned.

[strrrng]

In real life, no. All of my friends / relationships have almost all consisted of Betas. I feel much more comfortable here. I feel like i have to filter myself and watch what i say in delta...it just doesn't feel right. Maybe you can't judge these things correctly over the internet but like you said, I'm questioning it based on the intertype relations.

This is typically how I feel around deltas, and is one of the prominent reasons I enjoy interacting with betas the most. I don't know if you should question it based on the internet intertype relations primarily; there are all sorts of reasons why people could annoy you online. A lot gets lost in text. Granted, it will probably still be a decent general indicator, but not much more.

Exactly.

....random thoughts, I thought dbmamma was istj? Or at least, that's the impression I got.

I doubt it.

[unefille]

...Say what? Granted, almost all of my interactions with other gammas have been rather informal, but I've never seen any of the aforementioned attitudes displayed.... Oh, except by this one ENTj girl, but I always thought that was because she was rich and spoiled.

Yeah, sort of. Gammas who are pro 'old money' and 'legacies', are usually, in some way, from old money and a legacy. It's only one manifestation of Gamma values. How Gammas usually act/react around me depends a lot on their own personal background. Those who came from less 'privileged' backgrounds usually find the whole 'image' thing ridiculous and focus more on money as a matter of pragmatism, those who are currently bankers tend to um, just focus on money, also as a matter of pragmatism ('I will make a LOT of money -- it's the most important thing, so I can look after my family and friends') and because of the banker lifestyle, start doing the whole cocktails, flashy suits etc thing -- for them it's not an 'image' they're projecting, it's simply what money provides. On the high side, they're not image-conscious, I guess; on the low side, because they care much less about 'how they come off', can actually come off like absolute arseholes dripping money from their fingers, sitting around bars, talking about their deals. Ugh. And those from 'old money' are just...extremely wealthy, conscious and demonstrative of it, and always a little bit suspicious/doubtful about those who haven't come from the same background.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people argue in this forum, haha. It's ridiculous.

It didn't even occur to me that we were fighting, at least in this case. UDP was just being blunt and I disagreed and was somewhat irritated in my response. It's all part of the cost of doing business.

[unefille]

REALLY? this surprises me. okay, maybe you're SLE>EIE

Exactly.

....random thoughts, I thought dbmamma was istj? Or at least, that's the impression I got.

dbmmama's type confuses me a lot, because not all of the information she gives 'works' together coherently (to me) -- but I very much doubt she's either EIE or LSI, particularly the latter.

[strrrng]

It didn't even occur to me that we were fighting, at least in this case. UDP was just being blunt and I disagreed and was somewhat irritated in my response. It's all part of the cost of doing business.

Yeah, I found the whole thing funny, in an 'unemotional' way. I think it's partly because I've interacted with Jesse in the past and know that his little side comments have a sort of casually indifferent twist to them or something.

And he and ritella aren't duals :/

dbmmama's type confuses me a lot, because not all of the information she gives 'works' together coherently (to me) -- but I very much doubt she's either EIE or LSI, particularly the latter.

I doubt any beta type. ESFj seems like the best bet, with ENFp as a distant second. Pretty sure she's a 2w3 as well.

[UDP]

It didn't even occur to me that we were fighting, at least in this case. UDP was just being blunt and I disagreed and was somewhat irritated in my response. It's all part of the cost of doing business.

I didn't think we were fighting either. I was being blunt, and expressing something that wasn't of a pleasant nature. I was not trying to pick a fight with unefille.

I was getting angry about some things, but it is somewhat unrelated to this thread, and this thread was an avenue where some of my own irritation was showing. But there is nothing substantial along those lines. In other words, I was getting angry but it wasn't anything important or much relevant to this thread - it was just a personal matter.

[redbaron]

Yeah, I found the whole thing funny, in an 'unemotional' way. I think it's partly because I've interacted with Jesse in the past and know that his little side comments have a sort of casually indifferent twist to them or something.

And he and ritella aren't duals :/



I doubt any beta type. ESFj seems like the best bet, with ENFp as a distant second. Pretty sure she's a 2w3 as well.

but remember, her husband sounds pretty INFp and their marriage doesn't *seem* like a supervisory one, the way she talks about it. (maybe he's ISFp and they're mirrors)

[strrrng]

but remember, her husband sounds pretty INFp and their marriage doesn't *seem* like a supervisory one, the way she talks about it. (maybe he's ISFp and they're mirrors)

I saw a picture of her husband and I'm fairly certain he's Ne-ENTp.

[redbaron]

I saw a picture of her husband and I'm fairly certain he's Ne-ENTp.

I'll take your word for it. ha

[dbmmama]

I saw a picture of her husband and I'm fairly certain he's Ne-ENTp.

one picture and you know his type huh? what about this?

I don't know if you should question it based on the internet intertype relations primarily; there are all sorts of reasons why people could annoy you online. A lot gets lost in text. Granted, it will probably still be a decent general indicator, but not much more.

[dbmmama]

I'll take your word for it. ha

trust your own intuition. not saying you're right or he's right but fuck listening to someone else's intuition. you have your own answers within.

[strrrng]

one picture and you know his type huh? what about this?

Is that supposed to prove something? I was simply pointing out how you can't judge your own type based on internet interaction, because a lot is lost in text and people act differently online. That has nothing to do with the fact that your husband seemed like a glaring ENTp (and probably 7w6) in the picture I saw of him. I didn't claim that it was final, but I highly doubt INFp -- or Se valuing in general -- from that picture.

[dbmmama]

Is that supposed to prove something? I was simply pointing out how you can't judge your own type based on internet interaction, because a lot is lost in text and people act differently online. That has nothing to do with the fact that your husband seemed like a glaring ENTp (and probably 7w6) in the picture I saw of him. I didn't claim that it was final, but I highly doubt INFp -- or Se valuing in general -- from that picture.

and my point is that ONE picture is not enough to type someone on, whether it's yourself or someone else.

[strrrng]

and my point is that ONE picture is not enough to type someone on, whether it's yourself or someone else.

Did I claim it was final? Stop being so defensive. It's the tentative conclusion I drew based on the available evidence. If more comes up, I will reevaluate.

Oh, and sometimes one picture is all you need to type someone. You just have to know what to look for.

[redbaron]

trust your own intuition. not saying you're right or he's right but fuck listening to someone else's intuition. you have your own answers within.

I guess that was just my way of saying "whatever--I can't do the v.i. thing very well so if you think you can, more power to you". I'm just going on things that you've told me about him. but really, I shouldn't have an opinion. I can't imagine you'd be supervisory, in any case.

[calenwen]

Yeah, sort of. Gammas who are pro 'old money' and 'legacies', are usually, in some way, from old money and a legacy. It's only one manifestation of Gamma values. How Gammas usually act/react around me depends a lot on their own personal background. Those who came from less 'privileged' backgrounds usually find the whole 'image' thing ridiculous and focus more on money as a matter of pragmatism, those who are currently bankers tend to um, just focus on money, also as a matter of pragmatism ('I will make a LOT of money -- it's the most important thing, so I can look after my family and friends') and because of the banker lifestyle, start doing the whole cocktails, flashy suits etc thing -- for them it's not an 'image' they're projecting, it's simply what money provides. On the high side, they're not image-conscious, I guess; on the low side, because they care much less about 'how they come off', can actually come off like absolute arseholes dripping money from their fingers, sitting around bars, talking about their deals. Ugh. And those from 'old money' are just...extremely wealthy, conscious and demonstrative of it, and always a little bit suspicious/doubtful about those who haven't come from the same background.

I don't even understand this. You make it sound like all gammas are businesspeople who sit around talking about money while wearing expensive clothes OR materialistic bitches who flash their inherited money.

It didn't even occur to me that we were fighting, at least in this case. UDP was just being blunt and I disagreed and was somewhat irritated in my response. It's all part of the cost of doing business.

I said arguing.

[Joy]

I don't even understand this. You make it sound like all gammas are businesspeople who sit around talking about money while wearing expensive clothes OR materialistic bitches who flash their inherited money.

No, those would be image/status things.

[unefille]

I don't even understand this. You make it sound like all gammas are businesspeople who sit around talking about money while wearing expensive clothes OR materialistic bitches who flash their inherited money.

Um, I never used the word 'bitches' and I DO NOT call people 'materialistic bitches' so there is no reason to bring the value judgments. I'm not entirely sure that materialism diminishes a person, I certainly don't think it does.

I said arguing.

I didn't think we were arguing either. Or more precisely, I didn't think we were doing anything that should have negative connotations attached to it; the precise verb is less relevant.

[JuJu]

As a Fi subtype ESI, you would increasingly downplay the "wealth and networking" side of Gamma in favor of more Te and Fi.

Te isn't money per se -- Te is more like being economic with one's knowledge base. With a Si POLR that indeed may imply taking big risks with money and markets. Of course LIE are known to get a "Se rush" elsewhere, such as sport that uses quick and economic thinking. I think cycling and alpinism are frequent among LIE. (A Beta ST sport will use more tactical thinking and force.)

Te with Si as a creative function is more about being economic with your immediate surroundings. It's rare a LSE won't become a family man. They're good around the house. If LIE is Wall Street, LSE is more like a Savings and Loan. They know how to create comfort and stability while being efficient. (So while they value aesthetics a lot, they avoid costly status symbols.) Frequently LSE are outdoorsmen. And they might sacrifice competitiveness to bring other people in on their activities and to enjoy just the environment themself. LSE form Fi bonds with lots of people in their community this way.

The Te subtype LIE is somewhere in between.

very accurate IMO... (You described my Dad to a T here.) Could you write-up one for some other types? I like the way you explain things.

[calenwen]

very accurate IMO... (You described my Dad to a T here.) Could you write-up one for some other types? I like the way you explain things.

+1

[Gilly]

No, those would be image/status things.

I hope you don't mean to imply that interest in status or image is exclusively Beta. I think there are different interpretations of what having "status" or an "image" are, and both can potentially apply to Gamma.

[Gilly]

By the way:

Jessica - Se-LSI
Ritella - IEI of some kind, and is mistaking Se-DS for being a 6.

[redbaron]

By the way:

Jessica - Se-LSI
Ritella - IEI of some kind, and is mistaking Se-DS for being a 6.

I agree.

[Gilly]

I agree.

Because you have a brain.

*high fives*

[jessica129]

By the way:

Jessica - Se-LSI
Ritella - IEI of some kind, and is mistaking Se-DS for being a 6.

Too late Gilly, already changed my signature

But really, if that were true, I'd be the coolest LSI I've ever known...if i do say so myself.

[Gilly]

Well your signature is wrong.

Some Se-LSIs are cool...people just don't think they are js because they can be laid back and not all anal like the Ti subs.

[Enters Laughing]

I've been thinking for a while that I might be Beta too.

[Gilly]

Seriously, I think a lot of people mistake Se-LSIs and some SLEs for SLIs because they fit the MBTI stereotype of "crazy loner risk-taker enneagram 7w8 sx/sp dude." Those aren't SLIs; they are probably MBTI ISTPs, but they are definitely not SLIs. Like Billy Bob Thorton in Pushing Tin.

[jessica129]

Seriously, I think a lot of people mistake Se-LSIs and some SLEs for SLIs because they fit the MBTI stereotype of "crazy loner risk-taker enneagram 7w8 sx/sp dude." Those aren't SLIs; they are probably MBTI ISTPs, but they are definitely not SLIs. Like Billy Bob Thorton in Pushing Tin.

I could see how that would be possible.

Now all I need is a moustache.

[Gilly]

heh, when I read the title of this thread I was like "Silly jess, didn't she know we were already dead?"

[xyz]

I've been thinking for a while that I might be Beta too.

really me too

[thePirate]

lmao,wtf jess

u silly dual of mine

>_<

[jessica129]

lmao,wtf jess

u silly dual of mine

>_<

I had to create this thread to get some clarification on various things. I've never been so sure of SLI as I am now. Sorry Gilly, the sig is correct. Back to Delta I go. Please, if I ever question it again, someone hurt me.

[thePirate]

I had to create this thread to get some clarification on various things. I've never been so sure of SLI as I am now. Sorry Gilly, the sig is correct. Back to Delta I go. Please, if I ever question it again, someone hurt me.

tehee.

and awayy to deltaaa!!!!!

[Gilly]

Please, if I ever question it again, someone hurt me.

I said this once, too. I was wrong.

*sigh*

One day my startling cobalt blue eyes and shy but devilish smile will get the best of you, and you will be BEGGING to put LSI in your sig.

[JuJu]

Thanks you two, and I have a Te base in my own family (a LSE.) Most write-ups happen spontaneously, but there are some pasts posts I may soon clean up into type descriptions.



They are not Si-SLI (e.g. John Goodman).

I remember Expat thinking John McCain was ESI, along the lines that McCain was significantly more biting than a George H.W. Bush (the later who we both seem to think of as a representative LSE.)

However, I think LSE still makes more sense for McCain given intertype relationships. Particularly, I think McCain and his wife interact as duals and that she is Fi-INFj. So difference between Bush and McCain could also just be subtype.

Si subtypes will stop to smell the roses more, as Si itself does. However consider how Fe subtype Alphas use Si more as a means to an end. No matter how aesthetically pleasing an environment, a Fe-ESE will probably be disappointed without creating an emotional effect.

Likewise, I think Te-LSE will have a sort of a "efficient relaxation". Most LSE already do this, to the extent that they pace themselves to improve quality. (The LIE would rather focus on factual details than regulate more physical details.)

The Te subtypes don't seem to pace themselves as well as the ordinary LSE, but perhaps the Te subtypes are higher energy, too. They seem to work themselves very hard and then use time afterwards to recoup and catch up elsewhere. Besides John Mccain, perhaps also Dwight Eisenhower.

(While LIE has been suggested for Eisenhower, his retirement years, maintaining a farm near Gettysburg, I think point to Si.)

Once LSE achieve quality, they next seem to bring other people on board. This is most obvious in large-scale agriculture or manufacturing (e.g. Henry Ford.) It's part of the "inclusive Aristocracy" of Delta. But once SLI achieve quality, they next seem to figure out how to do more with less effort (IP temperament.) So the mixed subtypes are often described as craftsman.

If Te-subtyping the ESTj turns a manufacturer more towards leadership, maybe Te-subtyping the ISTp creates more of a "free agent". I think of Robert De Niro. He seems to have lived a stable personal life (compared with Hollywood Betas), but while making the money in all sorts of ways -- before acting school, he was in a street gang.

I agree with this 100%. Very good analysis.

The suggestion that McCain's ESI seems kinda funny in retrospect, (although understandable given how he was presenting himself at the time.) Looking back on his campaign, McCain's very clearly not Ni-valuing. See: his knee-jerk reaction to the economic crisis, his campaign's seemingly thoughtless "roll-out" of Palin, etc.

McCain is the same type as my Dad--Te-LSE--the latter of which you've described to a T... He's been a banking executive since his 20s, and through perseverance, risen to the top of the profession... Now he's in the process of settling down on acres of land (seems to be a Delta ST theme) to do Si shit like mow the lawn, build rock walls, and fix motorcycles... That's his ideal--work hard, settle down, and then live off the land.