The metaphysical and alchemical origins of socionics
The origin of usingshapes as information elements ...
Look closely at the symbols ... This is from book of witchcraft titled "making magic" by Edain McCoy pages 48 and 49 ...
Book found here:
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Magic-W.../dp/156718670X
The origin of using 1-2-4-16-32-64 ways of mathematically calculating the different types ...
The Eye of Horus Fractions:
And some thing I have been doing with socionics:
And also here:
You know those triangle, square, and circle symbols have historically been used so rarely that this clearly cannot be a coincidence.
It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Wow! Other people have used circles, squares, and triangles before! Who would have thought?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
The Chinese War Strategems are a nice touch.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Also, notice how noone has used the rhombus. Or these random irregular trapezoids that I happen to like:
I mean, how improbable is that?
There must be a gazillion possible irregular trapezoids, 1 square, 1 circle, a gazzilion million irregular polygons, even more types of random squiggles, 1 equilateral triangle...
and 2 different groups of people pick the OUTLIERS. either people are completely irrational or this is an aspect of divine intervention. discuss.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
The rhombus is the symbol of all that is unholy and the darkness that lurks at the pit of each person's soul. It must neither be seen nor spoken...
For real, don't do it or it will be pretty bad for you.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
McNew, call me silly, but I really think you may want to look into the idea that between the two languages:
circle /= circle
square /= square
.... and so on
I think it's possible that there's actually a permutation on it. Like:
socionics circle = creepy square
socionics triangle = creepy circle.
I mean it's very likely that God just wanted to fool people and wanted a prophet (if you get my hint <nudge>) to decipher his code.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
Also, have you collaborated with tcaudilllg on this? I think you should. Just an idea.
And let me tell you, I know potential when I see it.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
I think that anyone who has any interest in socionics apart from anything else would want to make it seem as though there was absolutely no way that origional socionics as it was early devised is nearly 100% taken from secreted alchemical information that has slipped into religions such as wicca. Perhaps it would be somewhat challenging to prove that the few orioginal founders of socionics did not really invent socionics, they simply reinterpreted something occultic and obscure, and were able to get away with some degree of plagarization, because no one really knew about the alchemical processes anymore.Originally Posted by Rick
That probably does not sound pleasant, but one thing for sure is that I appreciate the fact that these things can once again be talked about without the threat of anyone being put to death. I suppose where it all came from does not matter in that regards.
Actually, it's interesting that you should say this, since more and more socionists have been talking openly about Aushra's ties to Theosophy and Sufism. She confided in a few close followers of her astral connection to the Great White Brotherhood. It is well possibly she originally obtained the symbols from the Gundestrup cauldron, and her teachings on duality are marvellously reminiscent of the tawhīd. Aushra sawas a sort of "aether" uniting the other elements, and she would exert the chakras with chants of "Eko! Eko! Azarak! Eko! Eko! Zomelak!"
It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.
ROFL !!!!!! Oh god that's funny!Actually, it's interesting that you should say this, since more and more socionists have been talking openly about Aushra's ties to Theosophy and Sufism. She confided in a few close followers of her astral connection to the Great White Brotherhood. It is well possibly she originally obtained the symbols from the Gundestrup cauldron, and her teachings on duality are marvellously reminiscent of the tawhīd. Aushra saw
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
It is quite transparent that you are now just trying to counter bullshit with bullshit, and you want to convey that there is no correlation in any of those things. I am not falling for it.Actually, it's interesting that you should say this, since more and more socionists have been talking openly about Aushra's ties to Theosophy and Sufism. She confided in a few close followers of her astral connection to the Great White Brotherhood. It is well possibly she originally obtained the symbols from the Gundestrup cauldron, and her teachings on duality are marvellously reminiscent of the tawhīd. Aushra saw
Apparently no one is up to any serious discussion concerning this and would rather fart around and be sarcastic where it is not needed. Suit yourselves, I only keep what I think is useful and throw out the rest anyways.
I'm not sure this is a joke.Actually, it's interesting that you should say this, since more and more socionists have been talking openly about Aushra's ties to Theosophy and Sufism. She confided in a few close followers of her astral connection to the Great White Brotherhood. It is well possibly she originally obtained the symbols from the Gundestrup cauldron, and her teachings on duality are marvellously reminiscent of the tawhīd. Aushra saw
JRiddy
—————King of Socionics—————
Ne-ENTp 7w8 sx/so
It is a joke ... he was attempting to reconvey his feeling that there was no correlation between alchemy, the information elements and the wiccan symbols, and whatever else by making up a bullshit story that seems believable, yet everything in it has no real correlation whatsoever.I'm not sure this is a joke.
lolActually, it's interesting that you should say this, since more and more socionists have been talking openly about Aushra's ties to Theosophy and Sufism. She confided in a few close followers of her astral connection to the Great White Brotherhood. It is well possibly she originally obtained the symbols from the Gundestrup cauldron, and her teachings on duality are marvellously reminiscent of the tawhīd. Aushra saw
+
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
The correspondence of the symbols for the information elements doesn't correspond with the symbols of those elements. If they used them as source, why would they have changed the connection.The origin of using
Look closely at the symbols ... This is from book of witchcraft titled "making magic" by Edain McCoy pages 48 and 49 ...
But if you intrested in these kind of occultic connections. I suggest buying 777 by Aleister Crowley.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
It's like reading Umberto Eco's - Foucault's Pendulum all over again.
Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.
ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
The Ineffable IEI
The Einstein ENTp
johari nohari
http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/
You apparently do not understand the included diagrams, which does indeed show a connection ...
Or maybe I just don't take those ridicilious diagrams very seriously. I've read like tens of thousands of pages about occultism. It's pretty safe to say I know and understand lot more than you do. Especially since you cite as your source, someone who's a "wittan".
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I suppose if you wanted to make it into a contest. I did study theology for 4 years with a minor in Greek and Hebrew in University, German for 3 years in university, and have taken loads of religious classes, many of them involving ancient cultures and even one on witchcraft. So, if you really think you know more than I do, suit yourself. It seems I have devoted my life to spiritual and often occult type stuff.
Sure why not:
Air = Smell = Hiddekel = Mezrach = Tahoeloj = Raphael = Ariel = Chassan = Paralda = Yetzirah, Formative World = Mah = 45 = Ruach = Oriens = Alcemical element of Mercury = Left upper point of pentagram = Vayu the blue circle = Sankhara = Breath = Thought
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Hold off from commenting yet ... I am going to put another post here explaining this ...
Alright, this is how it goes ....
The Zodiac is simply a division of a circle into 12 parts, which split into 3 parts. This concept of the zodiac was well known to anchient people and various laws were invented from studying the mathematics according to polarities, correspondences, neutrality, conflicts, and friendly vibrations. The 36 laws of war that come from china are one of the few remaining examples of the usage of the laws that were derived from the mathematical zodiac that were practical, unlike the unpractical bullshit that the zodiac is associated with nowdays [*cough* astrology]. This is why I chose to use the laws to demonstrate that the zodiac does indeed show a correspondance with socionics. The practicality of the laws that has been proven throughout time.
Because the the zodiac is 360 degrees, in order to do a full circle with all the socionics types represented I would have to have done a 400 degree circle, with something like about 7 degrees per sign instead of 10. Because of this, more than one types was listed in the mutable signs Pisces, Gemini, Virgo, and Sagitarrius. I determined that these certain signs must belong there according to various corresponding information. Alchemically, spring is the young season and represents wet. Socionics officially lists the "ALPHA" quadra as the quadra of youth. I determined that this must mean that ENTp,INTj,ESFj,and ISFp fit around the signs of Gemini, Taurus, Pisces, and Aries. However, after doing this with all the quadras. I noticed that there were not enough signs to cover this. I then looked at the fact that some signs were mutable, cardinal, and fixed. The mutable signs were always at the end and beginning of seasons and represented elements of more than one season. So, I assigned two types to the mutable types. I also realized that I had to account for above and below signs. For example, Gemini and Aries are above signs and Taurus and Pisces were below signs. After some study, I realized that polaritywise Taurus represented both Si and Ti, and Aries represented Fe and Ne. However, the laws that were prescribed to Taurus and Aries seemed extremely ESFj and ISFp to me. I realized that part of Aries, Extroverted Intuition, went to Gemini and part of Taurus, Introverted Logic, went to Pisces. By doing this with all of the types and quadra EXACTLY in this way I was able to make very close comparisons between socionics and the zodiac. In fact, I will prove that right now.
Take this chart right here:
This chart I have made to represent polarities between types as they are applied to the zodiac. Each sign has a socionics type and the laws are corresponding to various parts of each signs psyche. For example, ESFj is Aries, which would be dominated by Extroverted Feeling. Extroverted feeling is supported by Introverted Senseing, which would be the first laws on the list. The second law on the list would be the suggestive function, which would be socionics Introverted Logic. And the last law would be applied to the hidden agenda, which would be Extroverted Intuition.
Let me go ahead and break down the following laws for everyone, which I have prescribed to ESFj and Aries. Aries[ESFj] is lead by Extroverted Feeling, so all the functions below would be a subset of Extroverted Feeling.
[Si][creative function] Steal the firewood from under the Pot
[Ti][suggestive function] Shed skin like the golden Cicada
[Ne][hidden agenda function] Befriend a distant enemy to attack one nearby
Steal the Firewood from under the Pot - [power]
All things have an asset, the inner drive of a being. Sometimes it is necessary to put out the inner fire of another, so there is no
energy to face you. This is called “stealing thunder.”
Shed Skin like the Golden Cicada - [illusion]
To feint in appearing large, invulnerable, and stable when really small, vulnerable, and instable, thus allowing escape from some
other thing.
Befriend a distant enemy to attack one nearby - [pivot]
Otto von Bismarck of the Prussian Empire openly makes a treaty with Britain and Italy. This made France more vulnerable when it
eventually attacked the Prussian Empire
If you were just to simply take the above information on its own to derive a short ESFj type description, you could do it accuratelly.
I will do that right now.
"ESFjs are people who take the incentive, but they sometimes steal the fire from others in the process; they like to be in charge of things. ESFjs are lively and everywhere they go is full of life on their account, and they always leave with a bang. ESFjs tend to make friends with people in proximity to the people close to them, and often get the people not close to them to do favors for them. ESFjs may be vague and indirect, and if you ask them where they got something they may give a misleading sounding answer."
And of course the direct opposite of an ESFj is an ENTj, who neutralize each other out. Law 1 can be neutralized by invokeing law 19, and 2 neutralized by invokeing 20, and 3 21 and etc. They are exactly 180 degrees apart on the Zodiac.
This is where I started getting confused. To me, there is no reason why socionics must be connected with anything.
Socionics is a remnant of alchemy ... it is a fact and this proves it.
Last edited by Angel von Himmel; 01-02-2009 at 03:03 AM. Reason: morons
This can be the official thread for people like niffweed who have no clue whatsoever.
The difference between what I am doing and what you and niffweed are sarcastically doing is this. You are randomly putting things together to try to make some dumb point about not understanding or knowing some point in something and I am deliberately piecing things together that are suppose to be together, but because of different outlooks, applications, and the distortion of time they no longer look like they belong together. Niffweed is just being what he constantly accuses other people of being when he does not immediately understand something, and you are following right along with him. Be more open minded for God sakes, both of you.
You are missing the point .. this thread is about being sarcastic about things spiritual and not readily understood except conceptually. This "mathematical" and "scientific" crap is just something you are slipping in to make a false differentiation that there is nothing scientific or mathematical in what I have done. And the fact that you do not see math and science in this, then that just proves that you just do not readily understand it and that it is something you are going to have to study and intuit for yourself.
In any case ... this is apparently turning into some "left brain" ... "right brain" debate where you are claiming that I am left brain and maybe niffweed is right brain or something. Now, I would agree that what I am doing is more left brain activity and that science and math is more of a right brain thing. However, that does not prove that there is no science and math involved in what I am doing, and you simply just need to study and understand more. For example there is a science behind music and there is math behind music, while music is left brain activity. It is the same with what I am doing. That is all I am going to say.
congratulations on your highly keen grasp of science.
given your words, you deserve absolutely no respect from anyone. and you will not get any.
I think this evidence here supports niffweeds 'theory' ...
Jung illustrates the sctructure of intuition and its development through time in Aion, which basically explains how people construct models on the basis of recognizable patterns. patterns themselves are a product of intuiton which gives it its inherent structure over time, which is what the stuff in this thread seems like. in other words human psychology divided things up according to patterns but filled those patterns with more primitive content (the zodiac, etc) that developed over time (into the socion) as the symbols came to represent different things
the development and change of symbols reflects different cultures and values and ultimately empirical knowledge with the advent of science
i can imagine one day people thinking "SLE" is essentially Thor and some zany IEE still worshiping it 10,000 years after it stopped "living" in the culture
The chart at the top of the page is actually complete nonsense. The arrangement doesn't even follow the laws of duality with respect to the functions. It's just schizoid nonsense.
For example, why is delta Fi opposed by beta Ti? There is no dualistic connection between those functions within socionics whatsoever.
The elements could very well have inspired the socionics symbols, mysticism seems like something Augusta might have been into ... enneagram had similar underpinnings. Even so all she did was take Jungs functions and attach some shapes to them, there's really nothing that spectacular about it either.
The 2>4>8>16>32>64 (2^6) pattern is somewhat interesting but I think you are misinterpreting the patterns of socionics and overstating the significance of '64'.
Socionics has always had a strange structure to it inwhich the 8 functions were formed in the typical exponential manner (2^3), but those 8 functions are taken as a whole and scrambled / recombined into function blocks, quadra functions, then eventually 16 types... rather than simply further dividing the functions into sub-functions, etc.. I always thought this made no sense and it is a flaw in the way the system was set up. But it doesn't appear to perfectly correlate with the egyptian ideal arrangement of 2^6 which he is pointing to. It really more closely correlates with 2^4 (16) and alot of superfluous mess in between. This scrambling effect is part of why the zodiac diagrams at the top of this page are so out of order with respect to the laws of duality... the way he's dividing the functions just doesn't make any sense from a zodiac standpoint.
But even if socionics was inspired by this 2^6 egyptian pattern (which it isn't - it's 16 types, not 64 types), this is not that significant - the pattern itself has no significance to it... 2^6 (64) is not any more meaningful than 2^7, 2^9, 2^10, etc..
Frankly everything Augusta contributed to Jungs functions doesn't make sense and is really garbage, we could throw it all out and be perfectly content with ourselves. We could literally take the 8 functions, divided them up into 2 subtype functions, and arrived at 16 types - and we would have accomplished just as much as Augusta did with such a complex, messy knot of a system which doesn't even have a good logical basis for it. I really think she was intent on doing exactly that - dividing the 8 functions further down into 16 types, but she didn't know how to proceed so she got caught up in analyzing the functions in terms of every other function (she got sort of lost within the boundaries of the system she was familiar with), and so we have this complex wad of functional relationships leftover from augustas attempts to justify making that next step into new territory. But the number 64 in itself is really not relevant to socionics - the number is 16; we have 16 types.
If you wanted to reconcile all that mess into a diagram of the zodiac you'd need to place all the functions right next to one another - i.e. gamma Ni (ILI) right next to beta Ni (IEI), delta Te (ESTj) right next to gamma Te (ENTj), etc. These categories would just simply be further divisions of the 8 functions and nothing more - that is the correct way of doing it.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 07-15-2017 at 05:39 AM.
lol this reads like an ethical type subconsciously begging for their dual to carefully explain it to them
I'm here because I've been off and on this forum for 8 years and I know some people here. I also can't stand alot of what I see here... and alot of people here can't stand me either. That's perfectly ok... Honestly this forum reminds me of the way I was living my life 5-8 years ago in many ways - many of you are completely pathetic in my eyes (and that's actually just because you are - the rest of the world agrees with me honestly). So if you want to know why I'm here, now you know.
On that note, I had thoroughly learned about and then grown out of socionics long before you even began learning about it. That's how long I've been here. There is nothing new you have to show me, nor have you said anything relevant or intelligent at all - which isn't surprising, since there is nothing to disagree with.
How about you just fuck off, ******?
yeah Im sure you're a big hit in the rest of the worldthe rest of the world agrees with me honestly
You read like a ******... and you missed the entire point. The point is about the structure of socionics and the fact that such a complex knot of relationships only produced a single increment of increased specificity in the typing arrangement; that the quadra / function block relationships are superfluous and cannot be considered part of the systems fundamental, tiered structure (such as with the chart at the top of the page incorrectly sorting functions by quadra associations). It's actually an indisputably true point, there is nothing to argue about.
This isn't the first time you've alluded to having important socionics knowledge which you can't be bothered to share while appealing to your "T type" status. You just sound like yet another insecure, masturbatory socionics obsessed autistic... Honestly it's pretty pathetic, I don't think anyone takes you seriously (I hope they don't)
I have already explained my thoughts on the topic very thoroughly.
Last edited by rat200Turbo; 07-15-2017 at 06:28 AM.
yeah I'm sure you consciously made the decision (Te) to hang around a forum devoted to a theory and people you have contempt for (Fi) and attack it (Se)
if anyone is wondering this is what Fe/Ti looks like when its unhealthy
hopefully an alpha/beta logical can get in here and sort you out
At the prime of your life when you should be finding a woman to settle down with (assuming you're even straight which seems dubious judging by the way you interact with other men) you choose to obsess over how to categorize everything in this autistic manner while masturbating day in and day out over the internet... good decision? You'll find out eventually.
Bertrand likes to be ironic and genuinely likes a lot of people here, who seem to like him. Everything you say is unironic in proportion with its stupidity, and I don't think you genuinely like anyone here or vice versa. There's "the world", but that's not anyone. That's the kind of big claim with no weight people throw around when they have nothing left.
aw thank you wryd, even though it wasn't primarily for my benefit, but crazedrat. I genuinely hope you can reach him
a person is obviously suffering to be such a way
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