Why i am proud of being a beta

[07490]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

[strrrng]

lmao

[Lotus]

;adkfja;lskdjfl;aksd'f;lksad';l

[strrrng]

rofl @ your signature

[strrrng]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra?

LOL

YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

ahahahahahaha

<3 you #'s

The more you raise your standard in life, The worse the outcome would be, and the less you will have. Simply live your life liberated by Delusional thoughts of how things could,would,should BE. I think you will be free of your mind and whatever project you undertake and do, it will be alot better than if you have expectation of things before you have even done it. NI does sucks and Se should be cherished. I am an ENFj.

rofl....Ni is so special....I love you.

[07490]

nick dont lamo, be proud we are beta NF, tell allie to fuck off she doesn;t belong here.

[07490]

i am just kidding allie,,..,,

[Creepy-female]

lol wtf

[Lotus]

nick dont lamo, be proud we are beta NF, tell allie to fuck off she doesn;t belong here.

I've been typed as a member of every quadra on the Socion. I should be allowed everywhere. Unless they are all exclusive, then I belong no where.

So, hmmm -- why did you make this thread, and call it "why i am proud of being a beta"'

lol

[Expat]

Yet, we dont see ourselves as special.

So, hmmm -- why did you make this thread, and call it "why i am proud of being a beta"'

[Kristiina]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

agreed, except we can't break down. I used to get quiet when someone was being unfair towards me. No longer. Beta is different and being EIE is different from being a member of any other type. People don't understand and they never will. so in stead of thinking that they are right just tell them to fuck off. When someone is being unfair, say "stfu!". Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe. No breaking down - leave that to other quadras who never get anywhere in life.

What other people find most confusing about EIEs - why are they so keen on succeeding. People often roll their eyes when they hear my goals. They rolled their eyes 10 years ago and I've done it all. People try to belittle my goals by saying that I'm naive and too optimistic. And again - they did the same 10 years ago. Just tell them all what I like telling people - "I know these goals are unrealistic for most people, but I am not like most people. Most people give up and never get anything done. That's not me. I see no reason why I wouldn't succeed.". And fuck them all - if they are too fickle to stay true to their goals they won't get anywhere, but why they assume I'm as fickle as they are is beyond me.

[strrrng]

Just tell them all what I like telling people - "I know these goals are unrealistic for most people, but I am not like most people. Most people give up and never get anything done. That's not me. I see no reason why I wouldn't succeed.". And fuck them all - if they are too fickle to stay true to their goals they won't get anywhere, but why they assume I'm as fickle as they are is beyond me.

Thank fucking god there is another person with the capacity of true mental fortitude and willpower on this forum.

[Kristiina]

Thank fucking god there is another person with the capacity of true mental fortitude and willpower on this forum.

GO BETA! This is the reason to be proud of being Beta - I wouldn't even look for mental fortitude and real willpower in members of any other quadra.

[Expat]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

[strrrng]

GO BETA! This is the reason to be proud of being Beta - I wouldn't even look for mental fortitude and real willpower in members of any other quadra.

100 points for definitive elitism.

[Kristiina]

100 points for definitive elitism.

1000 points for agreeing with elitism.

[Kristiina]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

agreed. That is the big risk. But goals can be modified or re-evaluated with good reason.

A few years ago me and Erkki planned to buy an apartment very early and I believed it very strongly - this is a clear goal that can be achieved with proper planning. I was telling it to an EII who said it's an unachievable naive plan. But apartment prices went up much faster than our income and pretty soon it was no longer a good idea. Actually it became really stupid to buy since everything became so overpriced. I saw that EII again - and he was really happy to hear that we hadn't bought an apartment. Seems like there was some bitter satisfaction in it for him. And still I am not disappointed - through all this time my living standard was higher than his.

This is what I meant with "Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe." - if a goal doesn't make sense anymore, then there's no point in going after it just to be stubborn. But the new goal should be at least as high (reasonable exceptions allowed). No point in lowering standards every time things change. That's how SLIs are created.

[Expat]

This is what I meant with "Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe." - if a goal doesn't make sense anymore, then there's no point in going after it just to be stubborn. But the new goal should be at least as high (reasonable exceptions allowed). No point in lowering standards every time things change.

Sure.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

[Nexus]

I agree with what you all are saying -- Betas, and perhaps EIEs above all, very often achieve a lot because they dream big - even "too" big - and they tend to stay true to it.

So they don't give up when many others would have, and they go on. But they often don't stop when they should, and they take just one risk too much - and crash down. That is why the sad side of Beta is self-destruction.

Which doesn't necessarily have to happen, of course.

I know just what you mean; never is it harder to succeed than when success has just past. Yesterday I passed my physical fitness assessment to get into the Navy, and then I was told that it was only a trial and that I would have to do it again on Friday; now I have to hope that I will push myself as hard as I did before. An EIE, unefille, has this quote in her signature which I think is very poetic but also true (especially of Betas) and fitting for this discussion:

Anyone whose goal is 'something higher' must expect someday to suffer vertigo. What is vertigo? Fear of falling? No, Vertigo is something other than fear of falling. It is the voice of the emptiness below us which tempts and lures us, it is the desire to fall, against which, terrified, we defend ourselves. -- Milan Kundera, 'The Unbearable Lightness of Being'

[Lotus]

[FDG]

What other people find most confusing about EIEs - why are they so keen on succeeding. People often roll their eyes when they hear my goals. They rolled their eyes 10 years ago and I've done it all.

Well personally, when I have rolled eyes to an EIE goal, it wasn't because I thought the EIE wouldn't succeed - not at all. It was exclusively because I thought it was not worth the effort ("it" being the result); so perhaps you're misinterpreting some of the objections...

A few years ago me and Erkki planned to buy an apartment very early and I believed it very strongly - this is a clear goal that can be achieved with proper planning. I was telling it to an EII who said it's an unachievable naive plan. But apartment prices went up much faster than our income and pretty soon it was no longer a good idea. Actually it became really stupid to buy since everything became so overpriced. I saw that EII again - and he was really happy to hear that we hadn't bought an apartment. Seems like there was some bitter satisfaction in it for him. And still I am not disappointed - through all this time my living standard was higher than his.

Perhaps the EII didn't want you to drive yourself too much into exhaustion over a goal that was not easily feasible. But, again, perhaps driving oneself to exhaustion is actually one of the "pleasurable" things about the goal-seeking behavior.

[unefille]

Perhaps the EII didn't want you to drive yourself too much into exhaustion over a goal that was not easily feasible. But, again, perhaps driving oneself to exhaustion is actually one of the "pleasurable" things about the goal-seeking behavior.

Yes.

For me at least, achieving the goal is often an anti-climax, because there is something new on the horizon, but I get quite a 'high' out of being en route to the goal.

I think Beta as a quadra is composed of very dichotomous extremes. By that I mean, the EIE is more than easily prone to over-reaching and exhausting themselves; to dream dreams that elude fulfillment; to reach and reach until all sense of reality is lost. The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

I think the last part is critical - it's not about realism or the lack thereof. I don't mind having my ideas shorn down somewhat, restrained, reformed or refined. But I take offence at having them devalued; made out to be lesser than what they are to me. 'Irrelevant' or 'pointless', in other words.

[Nexus]

Yes.

For me at least, achieving the goal is often an anti-climax, because there is something new on the horizon, but I get quite a 'high' out of being en route to the goal.

I think Beta as a quadra is composed of very dichotomous extremes. By that I mean, the EIE is more than easily prone to over-reaching and exhausting themselves; to dream dreams that elude fulfillment; to reach and reach until all sense of reality is lost. The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

I think the last part is critical - it's not about realism or the lack thereof. I don't mind having my ideas shorn down somewhat, restrained, reformed or refined. But I take offence at having them devalued; made out to be lesser than what they are to me. 'Irrelevant' or 'pointless', in other words.

I think that it's because you are process, like all EIEs (and LSIs). Process types are:

1. Immersed to a process and tends to single-tasking.
2. Focused between the beginning and the end of processes.

[Kristiina]

I think it is quite easy to give LSIs direction and goal. It's easy to get them to accept EIE goal as their own.

Example: Me and my LSI friend do major stitching. When only she was doing it, she was buying one pattern and fabric after another but never really tried finishing any of them. I immidiately picked one pattern, got everything that I need and started stitching it. Ever since we started stitching together, she hasn't changed her project anymore. She keeps whining that she won't finish before she dies of old age and she keeps saying she hates the details in the pattern. She can whine all she wants, I always laugh at it, and it's so cute that she still sticks to the pattern and I bet she'll finish it!!!!

IMO, on their own, LSIs are not much more goal-oriented than any other IJ, but beside EIEs they can get very goal-oriented and they have SO MUCH ENERGY that they're not aware of!

[Expat]

The LSIs role is to both ground the EIE, yet also to also defend the dream.

Brilliant.

[leftylib]

agreed, except we can't break down. I used to get quiet when someone was being unfair towards me. No longer. Beta is different and being EIE is different from being a member of any other type. People don't understand and they never will. so in stead of thinking that they are right just tell them to fuck off. When someone is being unfair, say "stfu!". Constantly analyze that your opinions aren't just stubbornness, and then stay true to what you believe. No breaking down - leave that to other quadras who never get anywhere in life.

What other people find most confusing about EIEs - why are they so keen on succeeding. People often roll their eyes when they hear my goals. They rolled their eyes 10 years ago and I've done it all. People try to belittle my goals by saying that I'm naive and too optimistic. And again - they did the same 10 years ago. Just tell them all what I like telling people - "I know these goals are unrealistic for most people, but I am not like most people. Most people give up and never get anything done. That's not me. I see no reason why I wouldn't succeed.". And fuck them all - if they are too fickle to stay true to their goals they won't get anywhere, but why they assume I'm as fickle as they are is beyond me.

Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[Nexus]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

+0.999

[07490]

nick read my avatar and see how much i love NI...

[07490]

Nick, you like my NI so much that you made that for me? You know that i can predict the future, NIck.

[strrrng]

nick read my avatar and see how much i love NI...

Nick, you like my NI so much that you made that for me? You know that i can predict the future, NIck.

Does your Ni tell you how much I love you?

[Nexus]

Ti - compulsive lying
Se - violent crimes

Who wouldn't want to be Beta?

[consentingadult]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world. but i have to ask myself this, which four other types other than the ENFj-INFp-ESTP-ISTJ can have total devotion to the things they do, changed the world in the process, and shown love and loyality more so than the other quardra? YES, we can have a sense of arrogances to outsiders, we can be the deepest loyalist self-scarfricing and even conqueors of the world, but this deepest nature of extreme is often misunderstood, when we look at ourselves deep inside we are totally different people than what is just appear to be, yet we give so much effort to fix this world, mind asking ourselves what we get in return, nothing, because we just dont see the world the same as others. Yet, we dont see ourselves as special. We knew all along that the world is not fit for us, we try harder and harder and break down, then we suffer more.

People who want to fix the world, typically are people that need to be fixed themselves. Focus on your own goddamn issues and straighten them out instead of projecting them on the world at large.

BTW, I think your account here has nothing to do with the beta quadra, this attitude is common to all people who are not at pace with themselves.

[strrrng]

People who want to fix the world, typically are people that need to be fixed themselves. Focus on your own goddamn issues and straighten them out instead of projecting them on the world at large.

ahahahahahahahah....oh fuck....*chokes*.......roflmaomgniggamazinggg

[sigma]

Betas, do not get good reps, both in the forum and in the real world.

Are betas assholes sometimes? YES, they are! But when the shit hits the fan who you gonna call? Hint.. is not the Ghostbusters!

If a beta sees emergency, he can get really motivated and ACT!

While other people will be shitting in their pants and tremble like a leaf, a beta will be shitting in their pants and ACT!

The main problem is that without the emergency, some beta will default to being assholes and slackers...

Here is some nicely expressed emergency:


If you have problems seeing the movie embedded, click through.

[mikemex]

I admire beta ST's discipline and NF's devotion. However, I can't but criticize their goals as "air bubbles". It's like striving for movement without caring where the movement gets you to.

The most bizarre aspect of beta is their concept of life as a "perpetual battle".

[sigma]

The most bizarre aspect of beta is their concept of life as a "perpetual battle".

Life is inexpressible. You cannot describe it directly. Just as you cannot describe Love directly, or God.
So, we use metaphors.

A "perpetual battle" is a metaphor that is better understood by betas (at least it is better understood by me). It is not necessary the way we see life, it is just the way we better understand it when someone else explains it.

I think it relates to the way I see living, and that is evolution. And in this evolution of what it might be called "me" I encounter "Resistance". I need to conquer this "resistance" in order to move forward. Resistance is never-ending, a perpetual enemy. I need to fight this battle every moment of my life if I am to accomplish my potential.

I view giving up the fight as immoral. And I give up the fight, I "fall", I "loose" certain battles... but not the war, never the war... so, when the internal cry for "righteousness" becomes to loud... I rise, I reconnect to the Light inside me and strike another blow at Resistance.

Now, I think every one of us has ups and downs. Everyone sees this fluctuation of life in one way or the other. And is not necessary to see it as a struggle, as a battle. BUT, I find it easier to understand when someone presents it like this.

[Nexus]

Life is inexpressible. You cannot describe it directly. Just as you cannot describe Love directly, or God.
So, we use metaphors.

A "perpetual battle" is a metaphor that is better understood by betas (at least it is better understood by me). It is not necessary the way we see life, it is just the way we better understand it when someone else explains it.

I think it relates to the way I see living, and that is evolution. And in this evolution of what it might be called "me" I encounter "Resistance". I need to conquer this "resistance" in order to move forward. Resistance is never-ending, a perpetual enemy. I need to fight this battle every moment of my life if I am to accomplish my potential.

I view giving up the fight as immoral. And I give up the fight, I "fall", I "loose" certain battles... but not the war, never the war... so, when the internal cry for "righteousness" becomes to loud... I rise, I reconnect to the Light inside me and strike another blow at Resistance.

Now, I think every one of us has ups and downs. Everyone sees this fluctuation of life in one way or the other. And is not necessary to see it as a struggle, as a battle. BUT, I find it easier to understand when someone presents it like this.

+1 life is a struggle against increasing entropy/disorder, and only the fittest are selected for it
...when you are at homeostasis every direction points downward

[Brilliand]

life is a struggle against increasing entropy/disorder

Ho... this I can agree with! Somehow the concept of a "war" does not mean the same thing to me.

[leftylib]

+1 life is a struggle against increasing entropy/disorder, and only the fittest are selected for it
...when you are at homeostasis every direction points downward

Of Course ISTJ is the INTJ Matermind's look-a-like partner.

[leftylib]

We knew all along that the world is not fit for us...

This reminds me of a vivid memory I have as a kid staring into a forest and having this feeling that the world was going to try to separate me from that kind of serenity. It's kind of like we're natural in the natural world, but unnatural in the social world - although that's not true, because some betas are very social. I just had a feeling that I was going to have problems with the world.

Lefty
ENFJ
4w5