ESTj in love - translation from socionics.org

[Simon Ssmall]

Hello again everyone. I tried translating the ESTJ in love but in some cases it was harder (im again confused what the hell is the contract part about, as in is it about contracts in general or marriage). Please point out the mistakes in grammar or incorrect sentence structure. Also point out the parts you did not understand. Well hope this will be of some use to you. Enjoy.

++added: see also Duality observations


ESTJ in LOVE: "Rely on me"

GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS: Their contribution to relationships is stability and structure. Usually they are reliable, sociable and optimistic. Due to their abilities

and thoroughness they can seem as impatient and sometimes even as incontinent. They have the gift of the gab (easily communicate) and they go through life with certainty that they are right and world will be better if the rest will agree with them.

FIRST IMPRESSION: Well mannered and respectful they come off as people who are self-controlling and capable of controlling the situation if needed. ESTJ's attract other people although they might be sharp and quick to say their opinion on any issue if they get even the slightest encouragement. They value smart people and consider themselves as smart.

DIALOGUE: ESTJ are good with words and it is easy to speak with them, they always find the right words. Initially friendly and interested but as the conversation goes on can show impatience and stubbornness. ESTJ have a strong need to be heard and influence others. They are accountable to themselves.

SEX and CLOSENESS: Closeness can be tangible and objective, if speaking in terms of logical promises and commitments. For ESTj providing for the family and stability that comes with it - sign of love. If you cant measure and predict closeness then it is possible that there is none. If it is there, you know it and you don't need to show it with unnecessary sentiments.

FINANCE: ESTJ are conservative but they are preoccupied with financial matters. They are good with planning for the long future. Leaning towards having money and saving them. Participate in charity if it is expected of them from social institutions (church, company, community, family). Very careful and avoids risks always looking for maximal security for the family.

CONFLICTS: This is a fact of life. Sense of responsibility includes in itself the need to complete what you started, this includes conflicts also. In other words, if you start a conflict you must end it, otherwise don't start it. Don't say insulting words if you can't face consequences.

OBLIGATIONS: This is for forever. They give their vows and keep them forever. If problems arise you can sleep in separate rooms, stop talking to each other but under no circumstances split up. ESTJ may prefer to immerse themselves into work, hobbies and other activities in an effort to avoid participating in a bad relationship. But from their inner point of view, vows are kept and that is the most important thing.

PARENTING: For ESTJ that is a never ending responsibility, taken as an integral part of life. They can intervene when children stray from the true course of life, work hard on their upbringing and can even renounce them if things go very badly. But all it takes is for their children appear at the door, as parents ESTJ will accept them because they are forever their children. This is their debt they take on themselves gladly.

CONTRACT: Another goal that can be measured and calculated. If you cant reach satisfaction it needs to change or revoke it. So the contract obliges but if you violate it then its up for grabs.

RELATIONSHIP ENDING: Relationship didn't end until its ended, but when they are finished, forget about it and live on. Relationships, just like everything else, can be measured and have its goals. Without them the relationship can't exist, without another person there is no need for those goals. Of course goals can change and need rethinking. That is just another fact of life.

[Smilingeyes]

This is very very good. Almost all of this is accurate.

What is not true here and what bugs me is the idea that we are certain that we are right. We just find it difficult to approach things with the idea that we are wrong. Basically, we are right until it is demonstrated that we are not, and after that it's equally obvious to us that we were wrong in the first place, which is humiliating but something we tend to own up to.

[DirectorAbbie]

Made me wish I were male for a moment. An ESTj would make a good family man.

This is very very good. Almost all of this is accurate.

What is not true here and what bugs me is the idea that we are certain that we are right. We just find it difficult to approach things with the idea that we are wrong. Basically, we are right until it is demonstrated that we are not, and after that it's equally obvious to us that we were wrong in the first place, which is humiliating but something we tend to own up to.

True, but if I'm arguing with someone I dislike I won't admit I'm wrong even if I know I am. And I agree that it's accurate.

[UDP]

DIALOGUE: ESTJ are good with words and it is easy to speak with them, they always find the right words. Initially friendly and interested but as the conversation goes on can show impatience and stubbornness. ESTJ have a strong need to be heard and influence others. They are accountable to themselves.

That is actually a very good point

ESTJ in LOVE: "Rely on me"

Also, I think this part makes the best sense in combination with the above part, as per how they communicate

GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS: Their contribution to relationships is stability and structure. Usually they are reliable, sociable and optimistic. Due to their abilities and thoroughness they can seem as impatient and sometimes even as incontinent. They have the gift of the gab (easily communicate) and they go through life with certainty that they are right and world will be better if the rest will agree with them.

ESTJ are good with words and it is easy to speak with them, they always find the right words. Initially friendly and interested but as the conversation goes on can show impatience and stubbornness.

LSEs can talk forever about things. But it has to do with things that are enjoyable or beneficial to them. Some LSE's will like talking about movies a lot because it's what they do, others will not because it's less of their regular habit. It's a matter of "is this conversation/experience bringing me happiness?", somewhat.

[JuJu]

Great job, Ssmall!!

Honestly, what you're doing is very helpful... Thank you.

This is very very good. Almost all of this is accurate.

What is not true here and what bugs me is the idea that we are certain that we are right. We just find it difficult to approach things with the idea that we are wrong. Basically, we are right until it is demonstrated that we are not, and after that it's equally obvious to us that we were wrong in the first place, which is humiliating but something we tend to own up to.

I've noticed this as well... My ESTj ex--if I'm remembering correctly, (8 yrs ago, whoa,) she was 'right' until facts to the contrary became overwhelming... In such a case, she would mea culpa--and with genuine regret.

She would not stubbornly cling to some opinion just to preserve her pride--unlike an ENFj I know who does this over matters large and small, e.g. whether the Red Sox are a better team with/without Manny Ramirez.

[iAnnAu]

Alot of this (what's applicable, unlike the parenting stuff) sounds *exactly* like my current SO.
Last night we were co-bitching about returning to work after being away for almost 3 weeks, and when I mentioned I was having to catch up 6 different spreadsheets containing redundant information (which battle to consolidate I have already fought, BTW) ... he went into this long speech about how I should teach myself MySQL/PHP/HTML and put it all into one database. Next thing I knew he was handing me my laptop as I cooked dinner so I could input my admin p/w because he was installing some program called LAMP, and then he spent a good 20 minutes tweaking settings. When I sheepishly mentioned that my work files are at work, he told me to learn the program on the Linux virtual machine now installed on my Mac (the laptop), and then install WAMP on my machine at work.
Especially after all the work he'd just automatically gone and done, I hated reminding him that I'd have to fight a political battle at work to get my coworkers to use the database instead of their Excel spreadsheets, and I hate office politics, so it'll probably never happen. He so wants me to be a little more of a geek than I am (I'm great with computers; just too scatterbrained to get too deep into coding and command line and etc). He seemed so satisfied that he knew exactly how to solve my problem within his sphere of expertise - and upon reading that "as the conversation goes on can show impatience and stubbornness" I recall that, after talking to me for half an hour about different details of SQL, when I asked if he could send me an email mentioning some of it so I could remember it, and he stared at me and said, "No."
He also puts the maximum amount into his 401K (although he feels like that satisfies the requirement for saving, so he pretty much spends every other penny) ... and even though I wouldn't have expected him to be affectionate when we first started having sex, within a month or so he was so affectionate in both private and public that I could tell things were no longer "casual" for him.