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Thread: Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Default Eleanor Roosevelt




















    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Roosevelt
    http://www.udhr.org/history/Biographies/bioer.htm

    Quotes:

    A little simplification would be the first step toward rational living, I think.

    Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    Actors are one family over the entire world.

    Ambition is pitiless. Any merit that it cannot use it finds despicable.

    Anyone who knows history, particularly the history of Europe, will, I think, recognize that the domination of education or of government by any one particular religious faith is never a happy arrangement for the people.

    Anyone who thinks must think of the next war as they would of suicide.

    As for accomplishments, I just did what I had to do as things came along.

    Autobiographies are only useful as the lives you read about and analyze may suggest to you something that you may find useful in your own journey through life.

    Campaign behavior for wives: Always be on time. Do as little talking as humanly possible. Lean back in the parade car so everybody can see the president.

    Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

    Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry is own weight, this is a frightening prospect.

    Friendship with ones self is all important, because without it one cannot be friends with anyone else in the world.

    Friendship with oneself is all important because without it one cannot be friends with anybody else in the world.

    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product.

    Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it.

    Have convictions. Be friendly. Stick to your beliefs as they stick to theirs. Work as hard as they do.

    I believe that anyone can conquer fear by doing the things he fears to do, provided he keeps doing them until he gets a record of successful experience behind him.

    I can not believe that war is the best solution. No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war.

    I have spent many years of my life in opposition, and I rather like the role.

    I once had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalogue: no good in a bed, but fine up against a wall.

    I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then live with that decision.

    I think, at a child's birth, if a mother could ask a fairy godmother to endow it with the most useful gift, that gift should be curiosity.

    I used to tell my husband that, if he could make me 'understand' something, it would be clear to all the other people in the country.

    I'm so glad I never feel important, it does complicate life!

    If life were predictable it would cease to be life, and be without flavor.

    In all our contacts it is probably the sense of being really needed and wanted which gives us the greatest satisfaction and creates the most lasting bond.

    In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our own responsibility.

    It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

    It is better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.

    It is not fair to ask of others what you are not willing to do yourself.

    It is not fair to ask of others what you are unwilling to do yourself.

    It is not more vacation we need - it is more vocation.

    It isn't enough to talk about peace. One must believe in it. And it isn't enough to believe in it. One must work at it.

    It takes as much energy to wish as it does to plan.

    It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

    Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.

    Life must be lived and curiosity kept alive. One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back on life.

    My experience has been that work is almost the best way to pull oneself out of the depths.

    Never allow a person to tell you no who doesn't have the power to say yes.

    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

    Old age has deformities enough of its own. It should never add to them the deformity of vice.

    One's philosophy is not best expressed in words; it is expressed in the choices one makes... and the choices we make are ultimately our responsibility.

    Only a man's character is the real criterion of worth.

    People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built.

    Perhaps nature is our best assurance of immortality.

    Probably the happiest period in life most frequently is in middle age, when the eager passions of youth are cooled, and the infirmities of age not yet begun; as we see that the shadows, which are at morning and evening so large, almost entirely disappear at midday.

    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Since you get more joy out of giving joy to others, you should put a good deal of thought into the happiness that you are able to give.

    Sometimes I wonder if we shall ever grow up in our politics and say definite things which mean something, or whether we shall always go on using generalities to which everyone can subscribe, and which mean very little.

    The battle for the individual rights of women is one of long standing and none of us should countenance anything which undermines it.

    The Bible illustrated by Dore occupied many of my hours - and I think probably gave me many nightmares.

    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.

    The giving of love is an education in itself.

    The only advantage of not being too good a housekeeper is that your guests are so pleased to feel how very much better they are.

    The only things one can admire at length are those one admires without knowing why.

    There are practical little things in housekeeping which no man really understands.

    Too often the great decisions are originated and given form in bodies made up wholly of men, or so completely dominated by them that whatever of special value women have to offer is shunted aside without expression.

    Understanding is a two-way street.

    We are afraid to care too much, for fear that the other person does not care at all.

    We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.

    What is to give light must endure the burning.

    What one has to do usually can be done.

    What you don't do can be a destructive force.

    When life is too easy for us, we must beware or we may not be ready to meet the blows which sooner or later come to everyone, rich or poor.

    When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?

    When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die.

    With the new day comes new strength and new thoughts.

    Women are like teabags. We don't know our true strength until we are in hot water!

    You can never really live anyone else's life, not even your child's. The influence you exert is through your own life, and what you've become yourself.

    You can't move so fast that you try to change the mores faster than people can accept it. That doesn't mean you do nothing, but it means that you do the things that need to be done according to priority.

    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

    You have to accept whatever comes and the only important thing is that you meet it with courage and with the best that you have to give.

    You must do the things you think you cannot do.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    was about to type her ENTj based on the immediate impression of expattishness that i perceived. i think Fi/Te is good.
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    My first thought was ILI, but I'm going to reserve judgment. I haven't even read everything I posted about her yet, lol.
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    She's said to have answered a question about belief in reincarnation by saying, "You know, I don't think it would be any more unusual for me to show up in another life, than showing up in this one." I don't know if she said it or not, but it's pretty much my stance on the subject as well.
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    I'm not seeing LIE.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    She does seem like more of an introvert to me, personally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    She does seem like more of an introvert to me, personally.
    While reading through her life on Wikipedia, I stumbled on an interesting quote by a friend of theirs: "Eleanor and Franklin were strong-willed people who cared greatly for each other's happiness but realized their own inability to provide for it." If FDR is an SEE and ER is an ILI, I would think that they would be able to do exactly that, but the quote as well as the various extra-marital affairs of potentially both of them suggests otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    While reading through her life on Wikipedia, I stumbled on an interesting quote by a friend of theirs: "Eleanor and Franklin were strong-willed people who cared greatly for each other's happiness but realized their own inability to provide for it." If FDR is an SEE and ER is an ILI, I would think that they would be able to do exactly that, but the quote as well as the various extra-marital affairs of potentially both of them suggests otherwise.
    wow, this is very sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I know of little to point towards EJ tempermant in her though.
    neither do i, and i agree w/ joy she seems rather introverted. the similarities with expat i perceived could just be due to shared functions on both their parts.
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    ENFp I think. In the quotes she puts great store in moral/emotional courage.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I'm not sure whether FDR is EIE or SEE, but in either case I have thought ILI was possible for Eleanor. A distant speculation of mine was that unfavorable Sociotype relations contributed to their extramarital inclinations, but with Irrationality and possibly her sexual orientation complicating things, perhaps not. The duration of the marriage would seem to add no further explaination, because while it might be explained by an Fi bond and mutual support in Gamma "reformations" of personal interest, it might equally be explained by a mutual "cause" (if the motivation was more Beta of nature) or even just the social norms of the day (which might influence any quadra in one way or another.) I know of little to point towards EJ tempermant in her though.
    If you read the Wikipedia page or know enough about her life anyway, it would seem that her mother-in-law was part of the reason for the duration of their marriage. Then it is likely Eleanor stayed with FDR for his political career.
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    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
    That's idiotic and pretentious.

    I don't know much about her history, but from the quotes alone, I don't like her.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I think we can, in the very least, rule out Beta. (And ESxx types.)
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    implied's type?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    implied's type?

    v.i. is kinda similar, eh? i might buy that.
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    She looks like Mr. Rogers wearing a dress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    neither do i, and i agree w/ joy she seems rather introverted. the similarities with expat i perceived could just be due to shared functions on both their parts.
    Hmm -- what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    ENFp I think. In the quotes she puts great store in moral/emotional courage.
    Actually that's how I tend to type her, but not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I know of Sara Roosevelt, but Eleanor could apparently have been a self-sufficient woman monetarily. Also, she married to Franklin Roosevelt in 1905, long before he had significant political clout (which, by the time it happened, in addition to being on the in-laws' radar, might have been to Eleanor and her interests' own benefit.) So I don't know if Sara Roosevelt presents a significant reason for a superficial marriage sustaining (for instead early on in the marriage, she might have posed the opposite effect, perhaps more incentive to drive a young Eleanor away.) But one thing I think you can take from the in-law relationship is good reason to distance Eleanor from the SF club, as Sara was apparently critical of her in related behaviors.
    I think Sara Roosevelt was ISTj, which is one reason why I thought that Franklin was ENFj (but I am thinking ESFp these days).

    My personal opinion is that their marriage was initially romantic and not "superficial", and ESFp-ENFp would fit that well, and that a bond always remained, but lots of things - including the stress of Sara's influence - drove them apart, but they stayed together for political reasons (in both their cases) and, yes, for the affection that remained.

    For what it's worth, the INTp Gore Vidal, who was her neighbor in New York for a while, got along with her fine and admired her, and he reported that she was totally skeptical about John Kennedy.

    Not sure yet about ENFp though.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    I know little of the precise interaction between them initially, beyond these extrapolations. If there was romance (in the usual sense of the word) along with the possible bonding, although a lot of what else has been said plausibly still works, Fe id could make more sense than superego for Eleanor

    Probably not gamma SF, so perhaps delta NF for her yeah. I don't have anything particular against Delta for Eleanor and when potential Beta motivations for sustaining the marriage were suggested, I had FDR and the possible EIE typing for him more in mind. So what might have defined the initial interaction as romantic?
    I've read biographies of FDR. He was of the Hyde Park branch of the Roosevelts; Eleanor was of the Oyster Bay branch (same as Theodore Roosevelt), they were distant cousins (the two branches had "split" some three generations before or something). FDR was one of those young rich guys with apparently everything going for him; apparently Sara thought that he "could do better" than Eleanor. It's not as if he married her for "dynastic" or political, or even financial reasons. So, one has to assume that they got married for romantic reasons - in fact, I never read anything to suggest that anyone thought the opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I really like her quotes and I identify with them. I am interested to read more about her.

    My favorites:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post

    Quotes:

    A little simplification would be the first step toward rational living, I think.

    Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

    Anyone who knows history, particularly the history of Europe, will, I think, recognize that the domination of education or of government by any one particular religious faith is never a happy arrangement for the people.

    Anyone who thinks must think of the next war as they would of suicide.

    As for accomplishments, I just did what I had to do as things came along.

    Autobiographies are only useful as the lives you read about and analyze may suggest to you something that you may find useful in your own journey through life.


    Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

    Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry is own weight, this is a frightening prospect.

    Friendship with ones self is all important, because without it one cannot be friends with anyone else in the world.

    Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product.

    Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it.

    Have convictions. Be friendly. Stick to your beliefs as they stick to theirs. Work as hard as they do.

    I believe that anyone can conquer fear by doing the things he fears to do, provided he keeps doing them until he gets a record of successful experience behind him.

    I can not believe that war is the best solution. No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war.

    I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then live with that decision.

    I think, at a child's birth, if a mother could ask a fairy godmother to endow it with the most useful gift, that gift should be curiosity.

    I used to tell my husband that, if he could make me 'understand' something, it would be clear to all the other people in the country.

    If life were predictable it would cease to be life, and be without flavor.

    In all our contacts it is probably the sense of being really needed and wanted which gives us the greatest satisfaction and creates the most lasting bond.

    In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our own responsibility.

    It is better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.

    It is not fair to ask of others what you are not willing to do yourself.

    It is not more vacation we need - it is more vocation.

    It isn't enough to talk about peace. One must believe in it. And it isn't enough to believe in it. One must work at it.

    It takes as much energy to wish as it does to plan.

    Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both.

    Life must be lived and curiosity kept alive. One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back on life.

    My experience has been that work is almost the best way to pull oneself out of the depths.

    Never allow a person to tell you no who doesn't have the power to say yes.

    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

    One's philosophy is not best expressed in words; it is expressed in the choices one makes... and the choices we make are ultimately our responsibility.

    Only a man's character is the real criterion of worth.

    People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built.

    Perhaps nature is our best assurance of immortality.

    Probably the happiest period in life most frequently is in middle age, when the eager passions of youth are cooled, and the infirmities of age not yet begun; as we see that the shadows, which are at morning and evening so large, almost entirely disappear at midday.

    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Since you get more joy out of giving joy to others, you should put a good deal of thought into the happiness that you are able to give.

    The battle for the individual rights of women is one of long standing and none of us should countenance anything which undermines it.

    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.

    The giving of love is an education in itself.

    The only things one can admire at length are those one admires without knowing why.

    There are practical little things in housekeeping which no man really understands.

    Too often the great decisions are originated and given form in bodies made up wholly of men, or so completely dominated by them that whatever of special value women have to offer is shunted aside without expression.

    Understanding is a two-way street.

    We are afraid to care too much, for fear that the other person does not care at all.

    We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.

    What is to give light must endure the burning.

    What one has to do usually can be done.

    What you don't do can be a destructive force.

    When life is too easy for us, we must beware or we may not be ready to meet the blows which sooner or later come to everyone, rich or poor.

    When will our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?

    When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die.

    With the new day comes new strength and new thoughts.

    Women are like teabags. We don't know our true strength until we are in hot water!

    You can never really live anyone else's life, not even your child's. The influence you exert is through your own life, and what you've become yourself.

    You can't move so fast that you try to change the mores faster than people can accept it. That doesn't mean you do nothing, but it means that you do the things that need to be done according to priority.

    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

    You have to accept whatever comes and the only important thing is that you meet it with courage and with the best that you have to give.

    You must do the things you think you cannot do.
    @FDG: Besides that quote you have highlighted, what do you not like about her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    Alongside the Fi-creative suggestion, I thought maybe you were using "romance" to suggest a more Fe interaction between them. It's possible that they didn't have "superficial" motives initially (and I know of nothing to suggest they did initially, either), but that they still had a more subdued courtship or whatever (though still a Fi bond underneath.) So I thought maybe you had read more of the interaction -- whether there was much Fe or not.
    I haven't read about it in so much detail, no. I seem to remember that there was some puzzlement in the family, as in "what does he see in her".


    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    So I might have better worded this as "what might have become a superficial marriage". I didn't mean to emphasize the possibility that the initial act of marriage itself was superficial. (Given that Eleanor endured Sara, I was leaning towards the opposite.) Sorry that my wording in discussing something so sensitive is so clumsy.
    Right.

    I do think it became a "superficial" marriage later on.

    Interesting enough, I read that FDR had some sort of affair with an assistant or such, who later moved away and had health problems or something. It was Eleanor, aware of the relationship they had had, who urged FDR to call on her now and then to ask how she was doing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Eleanor Roosevelt

    Thoughts on her type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enter Laughing View Post
    Thoughts on her type?
    It has been a while since I read her biography, but here are few things I remember about her in addition to her well known public image:

    .
    She was indifferent to many comforts, preferring to focus on her causes. She slept in a bed in her small dressing room to leave the larger bedroom free for meeting people. She wasn’t interested in improving the mediocre quality of the food served in the White House which FDR hated. She was always randomly inviting people off the street to eat lunch at the White House and cramming them in at the table. She described her tastes as Spartan.
    .
    When the Roosevelts moved out of the White House it was very worn and shabby from lack of upkeep during their tenure. The housekeeping staff had become careless under the housekeeper Henrietta Nesbitt, who was a friend of Eleanor’s. It was said that when Nesbit herself was dining at a White House function, she looked up at a dirty chandelier and said, “Isn’t that filthy,” as if she had no responsibility for it.
    .
    Eleanor’s children perceived that she was more interested in her causes than she was in them. Her own childhood was dismal, as the shy, homely child of a beautiful, spoiled woman and her alcoholic husband. Her mother made fun of her reserve, calling her “Granny.” She felt like an old soul even as a young child.
    .
    It is interesting that she went from such shyness to such extroversion. She is a difficult person to type. Not alpha, but not really delta, either, Seems like role or vulnerable Si. But I am not sure that those types are right.






    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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