lol it's like allie is hermione and me and nick are harry and ron and...and...and...
ummm...epic fail lol
lol it's like allie is hermione and me and nick are harry and ron and...and...and...
ummm...epic fail lol
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
That brings back great memories of christy babysitting me...Originally Posted by Gilly
4w3-5w6-8w7
Yeah well next time you act up it'll be B&D making you face the wall :wink:
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
oh lord lol...
4w3-5w6-8w7
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Man, WTF lol
The Godfather, The Shawshank Redemption, Star Wars, LotR, etc. NAWWWW, the world likes the god damn batman.
Why not EIE?
lol IEI lol
I just want to hug both of you.
lol @ this agreed
lol @ thisMan, WTF lol
The Godfather, The Shawshank Redemption, Star Wars, LotR, etc. NAWWWW, the world likes the god damn batman.
It'll be there for a week. Then people will realise the error of their ways, and The Hotty And The Notty will be restored to its rightful place at the top of the table.
WHUH?lol IEI lol
I just want to hug both of you.
lol @ this agreed
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Okay. Simplification time for Allie.
The way you have just interacted with Nick and Gilly is reminiscent of a Fe valuer's interacting with other Fe valuers. Since niffweed was explaining at SW that this kind of behaviour could be found in social beings such as glamourama and Starfall, I put two and two together and made IEIllie.lol IEI lol
Strangely enough, I saw exactly where Gilly was coming from with this. It reminded me of a kind of fake rivalry between Harry and Ron, with the lovable interjections of Hermione which did, uncannily, equate to reactions like "I just want to hug you both!".lol @ this agreed
I appreciate thatOkay. Simplification time for Allie.
Interesting, but I doubt I'm IEI. I'm far too different from the other IEIs and they have made it clear that they don't relate to me in any way.The way you have just interacted with Nick and Gilly is reminiscent of a Fe valuer's interacting with other Fe valuers. Since niffweed was explaining at SW that this kind of behaviour could be found in social beings such as glamourama and Starfall, I put two and two together and made IEIllie.
Strangely enough, I saw exactly where Gilly was coming from with this. It reminded me of a kind of fake rivalry between Harry and Ron, with the lovable interjections of Hermione which did, uncannily, equate to reactions like "I just want to hug you both!".Haha, I just think Gilly and Nick are cute.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
it's a valid option, but I don't see him having the controlled intensity of Ni subs or the more laid back demeanor of Fe subs. And he just seemed irrational.
FTW, the fact that Allie responds well to Fe does not make her INFp...I honestly don't see how you drew that conclusion based off of some casual banter.
4w3-5w6-8w7
"Controlled intensity?" You think Jadae has "controlled intensity?"
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Jadae isn't Ni sub, and Ni sub was the type I was referring to with that comment. I believe I described the Fe subs as more laid back, which is how he is, with regards to other betas. Intensity is also a result of instinct stacking, but w/e. And I do think Jadae has intensity; he just doesn't express it as often as other betas.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I don't know about Batman, but the Joker is way too manic and flamboyant to be an ISFp. You're telling me that him and Bob Ross have the same personality? I think the people who have come to these conclusions are looking too deeply into Socionics theory and are ignoring the basic impression that the Joker makes. I like the possibilities of ENFp, ENTp, and ENFj for him.
Jason
Wow, there's some really sloppy typing going on here... The Joker as ENFp? Really?
I swear, sometimes it's like everyone jumps on a ridiculous bandwagon... Do you honestly think that the Joker exhibited Fi-creative?
Delta characters in this movie: Morgan Freeman's character, and POSSIBLY the cop whose family is going to be killed by Dent at the end, (and the latter may be Gamma.) End.
Most of the major characters in this movie are Se-base or Se-valuing... Batman, (Beta,) Alfred, (Beta,) Dent (ENXj.) The Joker is Fe-valuing, a beta NF. (Compare with Steven Tyler.)
Heath Ledger, the actor, was ISTp... Bale, the actor, is some kind of Beta ST. Maggie Gyllenhall is hot.
Last edited by JuJu; 07-30-2008 at 08:31 AM.
haha cute
Yeah! Finally going to see this today so I can tell you all how wrong you are and how you don't know socionics! I can't wait!
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Personally I think Ledger was SEI which is perhaps why some people lean towards that as a typing for The Joker.
And yes, Maggie Gyllenhall is fucking gorgeous. I thought it would be funny if she made out with the Joker at one point; then Ledger would be the only person to have ever made out with a brother-sister pair on the big screen
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
<3
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Beautiful... She looks SEI in that picture... I haven't seen any interviews with her, so I'm not sure of her type... Her bro is ENFp, I'm pretty sure.
As to Heath's type, I did some searching for interviews last night, and yeah, that's my dual--his positive responses to Fi are very noticeable.
NO! I want him to be my dual
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
Got any examples Juju?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
NO! I want him to be my dualok, you can have him...
P.S. to Gilly, I will try to go find some...
I just found this one... He talks a little bit about what he values, which should give some insight as to functional preferences.
Last edited by JuJu; 07-30-2008 at 10:58 PM.
I think Batman and the Joker are dualz 4 lyfe.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
I didn't particularly get much type-related out of that; what were you thinking specifically Juju?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ledger is (was, sadly) Si-ISTp, so ISFp is an easy leap to make... It's not an 'out-there' typing by any means, Gilly.
That said, in the above interview, note Ledger's use of Fe--or rather his lack thereof... Ledger does not attempt to 'lighten' the atmosphere of the interview--in fact, some of his comments have the exact opposite effect, and thus the emotional atmosphere of the interview is very inconsistent. It's accurate to say that Ledger does not seem to care about maintaining a particular emotional atmosphere during the interview, positive or negative or neutral. (Many ISFps--think George Lucas, John Candy, Andy Kaufmann, Jared Leto--seek to do this during interviews, i.e. establish and maintain a certain emotional tenor with the interviewer/audience.)
Ledger's lack of caring about Fe (one might even say aversion to Fe) can be best observed during this interview with his dual, Ellen Degeneres, in front of a live crowd. Note how Ledger mentions Ellen's great "energy," and how her show is the "most exciting show on TV," (Fi expressions of appreciation for his dual.) Note during 6:15-7:30 that Ledger's reactions are almost exactly opposite the crowd's, i.e. when they laugh he rolls his eyes, etc.
As you've probably noticed by now, Ledger is not the most emotionally expressive person--when he laughs, it's in short bursts. Immediately afterwards, his face reverts to the typical Te expression, i.e. pensive, analytical.
Here's a quick interview that illustrates this:
In these interviews, there is none of the 'lightness' that one usually senses in interviews with male ISFps. Conversely, the mood projected is similar to that of ISTps like Jeff Daniels and Hayden Christensen--even Ledger's sly smile is similar to Christensen's.
I hope that helps.
Actually watching videos of Ledger makes me think more IEI than anything tbqh, which is interesting because my first VI impression of him was one of being similar to a Beta NF friend of mine, despite seeming more SEI from my overall impression of him. I just really don't see Fe PoLR, honestly; it's usually glaringly obvious to me. He doesn't have the very matter-of-fact straightforwardness that you get with Fe PoLR types; take implied or niffweed for example. He seems more interested in creating a nuanced impression of what he is talking about rather than just speaking plainly; if you watch from around 4:00 to 5:25 I think you'll see what I mean. Things like talking about his character being a "clenched person," he speaks more about his "impression," if you will, of the character, rather than specific details about the character or his actions, speaking more in generalities about the character's tendencies and such rather than sighting specific things than he "does" or events or scenes that convey what he is talking about. That's just an example, though; my typing is more based on my impression of him.
But yeah, overall IEI is my opinion after seeing more of him.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Gilly, do you think everyone is a Beta NF? Honestly, every "celebrity" or character typing I've seen all have Beta NF or Beta ST... maybe the VERY rare/odd Gamma or Alpha. That's about it.
Anyhow, whatever Ledger is I can feel the good relation between him and Ellen. Ellen is most definitely an IEE.
Watching Heath is like watching a male version of myself. He is SLI. How can you even question this?
Why is everyone calling my motivations into question lately?
And lol @ you saying that you "feel a good relation" between people from an interview watched on the internet...that's absolutely ludicrous. YOUR attitude towards typing should be brought into question, from the look of statements like these. Christ almighty...
I'm just calling it like I see it; I don't know what else could possibly be expected of me.
Jessica, you know I've questioned your being SLI plenty of times, so don't even go there
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I won't call into question your motivations--obviously, I don't know them--but I don't understand how you could watch those interviews and not come away with the impression that Heath Ledger is, at the very least, Si-base.
I too have noticed that you've been typing a lot ppl as Beta lately--forum members and celebrities... I'm wondering why..? Admittedly, I haven't scrutinized many of these typings, and for all I know you may be right in every case--except for this one re: Heath Ledger as a INFp... Two questions: where's his Ni? Where's his Fe? To paraphrase the title from one of final movies, 'they're not there.'
If your typing of Ledger is based on, as you say, an 'impression' of him (gestalt, yeah?)--I'll just suggest that you re-evaluate that impression... I don't mean to offend you. Honestly.
I'll put it to you like this: if you had to group Heath Ledger with celebrities who, personally, seemed to value similar Socionic functions, groups consisting of A) Hayden Christensen and Jeff Daniels (ISTps) or B) Rick Moranis and Andy Warhol (INFps) which would you choose? Please consider this carefully... Also, for further clarification, perhaps go back and review Ledger's interviews for exemplifications of Te, b/c remember--by suggesting that he is INFp, you're suggesting that he has a Te POLR.
FWIW--and as I imagine you know, but I'll write it anyway--Fe POLR manifests differently in INTps and ISTps... To take Nifweed, INTp, and Implied (is this typing clear-cut at all?) as a combined example of Fe POLR, and use it as the crux of an argument for why Heath Ledger is not ISTp... Well, that leads me to wonder whether IRL you've accurately typed a male ISTp--or if you've accurately typed a male celebrity as ISTp? (You could review interviews with John Goodman and Jeff Daniels for examples of male ISTps who often speak with the "nuance" you describe, and which you state you don't ascribe to Fe POLR types.) Perhaps you just don't know what to look for re: male ISTp's Fe POLR..? I'm asking these questions genuinely--and I do not want you to feel embarrassed.
Hopefully, some increased understanding of Socionics can come of this... It's just that you post a lot here, and influence people--and it would be better if typings such as 'Heath Ledger=INFp' weren't thrown around wily-nily... Then Socionics wouldn't seem like such a joke to certain ppl.
Disclaimer: my typings are far from infallible... Just in this case--Heath Ledger is not INFp... Maybe his portrayal of the joker was INFp--but Ledger, the actor is (was) not INFp.
Last edited by JuJu; 07-31-2008 at 07:12 AM.
The Delta types Person A as Delta and the Beta types Person A as Beta. Ah, the joys of Socionics.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I don't see how Heath could ever fit in Beta. IEI?! It seems all celebrities get lumped into that category because they're "intellectual" and "artistic". Heath screams Delta.
Do you have an informed opinion about this typing, Logos?
The history of this example of "the joys of Socionics:" I was asked by Gilly to explain my typing of Heath Ledger as ISTp so I did...
Being "the Delta" had no influence on the typing--other than I could (perhaps more) easily pick up on the person in question's Si, and other strong/valued functions, having them myself.
If anyone cares to do some research, that person will find that ISTp is the general consensus typing for Ledger, at least among those on this forum who type accurately--there is some disagreement among those ppl, sure, but what I'm trying to say is that it's not just Deltas typing this guy as Delta, as your post connotes.
Beyond that though, and to be honest with you, I don't perceive how statements like yours above help anyone involved with Socionics very much. Statements like the above cause Socionics, and those who participate in debates about Socionics (e.g. ppl's Socionics types,) to look stupid and self-serving... That is not the case and it's wrong of you to connote it.
When I read something like what you wrote above, I feel as though I've wasted my time writing and explaining--it's not a good feeling--as I put a good deal of thought and time into doing so...
I hope that maybe somewhere, at some time, (now or in the future,) these debates are helping someone...
Flippant peanut gallery-type comments, to my understanding, can only dissuade someone from taking Socionics seriously as a helpful tool for self-understanding, and for understanding others. No offense meant to you personally--this isn't about your one comment so much as a general attitude that typings are self-serving... To one who doesn't use typings in a self-serving way, the attitude is troubling and erroneous... Peace, -Justin
Last edited by JuJu; 07-31-2008 at 05:57 PM. Reason: grammar
lmao. I can't believe you got yourself so worked up over that comment. Now, I probably will take you less seriously.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
That doesn't really bother me man... I don't know you from Adam.lmao. I can't believe you got yourself so worked up over that comment. Now, I probably will take you less seriously.
I just believe that comments like yours don't help anyone... I think that your reaction here is pretty telling too, to be honest.
Peace
What does it tell? Am I only allowed to post my thoughts when they are helpful?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Sorry, I just don't really see Ledger as having an Fe PoLR; also he doesn't remind me of any SLI I can think of, and he distinctly reminds me of a few Beta NFs I know personally. I respect that you have put some thought into this, Juju, but I personally don't see it.
To put a different spin on your example, if I had to group Ledger in with, say, either Mel Gibson and John Goodman, or Anthony Keidis and Marilyn Manson, I would certainly choose the latter two.
To be perfectly honest, I'm not exactly flattered by the fact that you suggest I'm "throwing around opinions willy nilly" as though your opinion on his type is somehow more relevant than mine.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
In your first post directed at me, you ascribed self-serving (negative) motives to me--and you did so incorrectly... I reacted against that post.
In your second post directed at me, rather than reconsider the content of your original post in light of what I wrote--i.e. how it might've been presumptuous/incorrect--you reacted by belittling me (full sentence 1) and then by posturing to attempt to make yourself come across as holier-than-thou (full sentence 2.) You book-ended it with computer abbreviations, which denote that you're laughing, (belittling.)
Now you ask, "what does it tell?"
For all I know, Logos, you're a very nice person who has, for whatever reason, just posted two ugly things on an internet forum--ascribing motives to a person you don't know, belittling a person who was trying to defend himself from incorrect insinuations...
Ppl make mistakes all the time--I do too, sometimes thoughtlessly... Like I said, I do not know anything about you; I do not know your character... It's only been revealed to me through these two posts... It's my hope that these posts aren't representative of your character, (for your own sake, as well as mine interacting with you) however, like I said, I do not know.
To answer your question: of course you can post "thoughts that aren't helpful" on this forum, or anywhere--but if you're going to direct them at someone and insinuate that someone-you-don't-know has ill-motives--honestly, what kind of reaction do you expect?
Obviously, how a person reacts to such incidents reveals character... Ideally, one will take into account the other person's point of view... I understand that you might've just been making a bad joke, or having a rough day--regardless, let's move on, unless you feel like talking about this more could help in any way... Peace, -Justin
I'm sorry that it came across this way... Thanks for telling me in a nice way. I appreciate it.
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