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Thread: Rick's PoLR Fixations

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    Default Rick's PoLR Fixations

    ILE: "I will prove to them that I am nice to everyone" or "I will prove that I am a blundering ass"
    SEI: "I will prove to them that I can be highly productive" or "I will prove that I am useless"
    ESE: "I will prove to them that I can foresee events" (??) or "I will prove that I have no foresight"
    LII: "I will prove to them that I can be nasty and aggressive" or "I will prove that I am defenseless"

    SLE: "I will prove to them that I am nice" or "I will prove that I am heartless"
    IEI: "I will prove to them that I can make money" or "I will prove that I am destitute"
    EIE: "I will prove to them that I am healthy" or "I will prove that I am sick"
    LSI: "I will prove to them that I see the whole picture" or "I will prove that I am narrow-minded"

    SEE: "I will prove to them that I can follow rules" or "I will prove that I am unable to follow rules"
    ILI: "I will prove to them that I have emotions" or "I will prove that I don't feel anything"
    LIE: "I will prove to them that I am healthy and fit" or "I will prove that I am can't maintain my health"
    ESI: "I will prove to them that I have potential" or "I will prove that I have no talents"

    IEE: "I will prove to them that I am logical" or "I will prove that I am illogical"
    SLI: "I will prove to them that I am happy" or "I will prove that I am depressed"
    LSE: "I will prove to them that I know what's going to happen" or "I will prove that I have no thought for the future"
    EII: "I will prove to them that I am disciplined" or "I will prove that I am hopelessly scattered"




    The SLI one sounds ok, but I relate to the ILI one the most.
    ILI: "I will prove to them that I have emotions" or "I will prove that I don't feel anything"
    The LII one fits to some extent as well, but not as much.


    ps. I think these are good generalizations of polr hit side-effects and that's all they are.
    Last edited by Park; 06-17-2008 at 07:07 AM.
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    the SLI one i relate with more.
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    I feel like SEI is the best fit for me.
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    IEE.

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    these are depressing.

    i dont know which one suits me best.

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    Hmmmm...IEE makes the most sense for me as is, although I feel like Si PoLR with Te also in the Super Ego should be more like "I will prove that I can take care of myself (and not let my life get out of control)"
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    the ILI one does fit well for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    IEI: "I will prove to them that I can make money" or "I will prove that I am destitute"
    the fuck is this??

    oh yeah, forgot...Te = productivity, which must mean making money.

    Needless to say, I don't like these.
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    I would say something about competence, common sense, real-world savvy or success here instead of money. Money's too simple.
    yea (hey, we agree, esper!), I would say it always feels like I lack an objective connection to reality (or a solid connection to "objective"/external reality, I dunno).
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    these descriptions seem to be the kind of PoLR hit that you would get from your supervisor, more so than your conflictor.

    don't know how well I relate to the IEI one (I would relate more to the kind of thing esper wrote, or to the SEI's/IEE's maybe.)
    Yes.

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    IEI for me, yes. In fact, I've set out to prove that I can make money before. And I can with effort, but I prefer to prove that I'm destitute. lol just kidding. I also relate to IEE: prove that I'm logical. But usually I'm seeking to prove that to myself, not anyone else. With the earning money, I'm trying to show others.
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    they seem pretty on target to me. they demonstrate how the person is rigid in that area, how they go from one extreme to the other, how they don't really comprehend the polr information element very well and how they utilize it in an awkward way.

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    ILE: "I will prove to them that I am nice to everyone" or "I will prove that I am a blundering ass"
    Uhh...This sounds more like Fe to me. Is this not more like ILE hidden agenda? If anything the ILI one is more Fi PoLR. I think ILI and ILE need to trade.

    ILE: "I will prove to them that I have emotions" or "I will prove that I don't feel anything"

    ILI: "I will prove to them that I am nice to everyone" or "I will prove that I am a blundering ass"

    Same issue with the SLE one.

    "I will prove to them that I am nice" or "I will prove that I am heartless"
    That sounds more like Fe than Fi. Maybe more like "I will prove that I understand how they feel" or "I will prove that I don't understand feelings"
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    I identify wayyy more with the SLE one.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    I relate to both the EIE and LIE ones.

    As for Fe vs. Fi, it seems to have been approached from a Fe = emotions and Fi = developing/maintaining relationships (in the form of being kind/empathic).
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    what's the recurring pattern here?? people are relating to multiple type fixations. why is this?? oh yeah, because they're superficial bullshit that shed no light on cognitive functions (other than the blinding illusion that specific, concrete behaviors somehow portray a method of information processing).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    ILE: "I will prove to them that I am nice to everyone" or "I will prove that I am a blundering ass"
    SEI: "I will prove to them that I can be highly productive" or "I will prove that I am useless"
    ESE: "I will prove to them that I can foresee events" (??) or "I will prove that I have no foresight"
    LII: "I will prove to them that I can be nasty and aggressive" or "I will prove that I am defenseless"

    SLE: "I will prove to them that I am nice" or "I will prove that I am heartless"
    IEI: "I will prove to them that I can make money" or "I will prove that I am destitute"
    EIE: "I will prove to them that I am healthy" or "I will prove that I am sick"
    LSI: "I will prove to them that I see the whole picture" or "I will prove that I am narrow-minded"

    SEE: "I will prove to them that I can follow rules" or "I will prove that I am unable to follow rules"
    ILI: "I will prove to them that I have emotions" or "I will prove that I don't feel anything"
    LIE: "I will prove to them that I am healthy and fit" or "I will prove that I am can't maintain my health"
    ESI: "I will prove to them that I have potential" or "I will prove that I have no talents"

    IEE: "I will prove to them that I am logical" or "I will prove that I am illogical"
    SLI: "I will prove to them that I am happy" or "I will prove that I am depressed"
    LSE: "I will prove to them that I know what's going to happen" or "I will prove that I have no thought for the future"
    EII: "I will prove to them that I am disciplined" or "I will prove that I am hopelessly scattered"
    i agree with a lot of them. lol my life has been a lot about "proving" my worth in many ways...so, mostly IEI, LSI, SEE, ESI, IEE, SLI, LSE and EII, in those statements anyway. i'd love to relax and just live in the moment but i think too much and sometimes have wished i could just cut my head off to stop the chatter and analyzing and thoughts....so, i get up and dance, workout again, something that engages my body so my brain will shut up. it doesn't always work, it keeps going. i have to be careful to not have books around or my brain will start thinking about what's in them and coming up with more ideas about what's in them. i need music on to engage that part of me to shut my brain off...and it has to be fast and upbeat. slow lets my mind wander again.

    btw strrrng, your new avatar is fucking awesome!! i love that kind of art. i make some like that myself sometimes. did you make it or find it somewhere?

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    Joy what would you say about my interpretation of Si PoLR fixation (top of the first page)?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    There certainly is an aspect of Si that involves taking care of yourself (and your family, if you have a family of your own), but I think most people in your life stage are somewhat focused on being able to take care of themselves just out of wanting to be independent from their parents and prove how adult they are (or something along those lines).

    I do think there's been something of a focus on that for me throughout my adult life in that I've always felt the need to be the "breadwinner" in my family, even to the extent of preferring that my significant other does not have a job outside of the home, though I wouldn't be upset if he did (and haven't in the past), as long as we didn't need his income. How much of that is related to a PoLR fixation, how much is related to a Se Hidden Agenda, how much of it is related to being an enneagram 8, and how much of it isn't type related? Who knows.

    I'll also admit that I haven't always been able to do this. There have been periods after surgeries and serious illnesses (not to mention my adderall misadventure) where I've had to scrape by. A Si creative type would have been able to provide more financial stability than I have. (My focus has always been on financial independence, not financial security/stability.)
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    I'd say probably in the past I might have related more to the LIE part of "I will prove that I am fit" (I've never had any problem with my health, so I cannot comment on that part), although now I am more secure about that part of me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    but do people really care about their PoLR or am I missing something?
    From what I've observed, there seems to be two schools of thought regarding this. One school seems to be that the super-ego block is something we're constantly aware of and strive to try and improve but fail miserably and thus spend our lives in eternal pain, suffering and misery. OK, maybe not quite that exaggerated, but you get the picture.

    The other school, which I obviously agree with, hence my satire of the first one, is that it's something we don't normally care about, but to be criticised in that area (directly or indirectly) causes psychological pain for reasons I can't get my head round. There's probably variations on both of these but that's the most common pattern I've noticed in Socionics literature online.

    Basically my personal take on it all is the following:

    - it's something you consider unimportant in life
    - it's stressful to be in a situation that requires heavy use of your super-ego functions
    - (I'm less certain on this one; I don't have enough data or experience to validate it) criticisms relating to your super-ego block cause you to worry about matters relating to your super-id block (an example being when an ESE I used to work with had a go at me for being visibly unhappy at a work party (yes, she really was that shallow. In my experience though, most ESEs aren't like that at all. Thus I feel confident in saying that was an individual trait of hers rather than something type-related), I'd interpreted what she said as that I'd personally offended all my coworkers and thus I started worrying about the status of my relationship with said coworkers. This in turn is validated by the fact that when I noticed they were acting normally towards me, i.e. not shunning me or showing any begrudgement against me, I quickly stopped worrying about it as I realised (from my own perspective at least) that she was just talking bollocks). I say I'm less certain on this one because although that experience and other, lesser, experiences seem to stir that thought pattern within me personally, I don't really know how much it would apply to other individuals. Mainly because I don't have a deep enough understanding of all the functions to visualise how it would work for them. But anyway, I'm rambling.
    - I've completely forgotten everything else I had planned to say here, but chances are I would've written it then removed it due to lack of certainty anyway. Quite frankly I can't even remember where I was going with all of this...I dunno. A lot of it's probably wrong anyway since I (fortunately) don't often experience PoLR hits and I don't have many real life examples of others being in such a situation.
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    i agree with sunshine lively. if the statement's coming from the polr-ee (person with that polr) it could be more accurate to be more.. crude.

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    for example. i also relate to more than one. but if i was speaking from my polr i dont think i would relate to all of them that i do.

    LII: "I will prove to them that I can be nasty and aggressive" or "I will prove that I am defenseless"

    if i am in a situation where i have to Se, these thoughts might run through my head.

    i also relate to the IEE and ILI ones.. but i would say not so much from a polr point of view.

    I don't think I'm thinking, "i'm gonna prove *I'm* logical" when i'm fighting for a point of view by my logic. So although I identify with it, I think it's slightly different than saying I identify with it as my polr. It's more like, "I will prove I am right, logically".

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    hmm... yeah thinking back on it it's kind of odd wording for all of them. But strangely, i can see the others applying more to other types than my own applies to me.

    i liked the HA descriptions better.. I don't remember if they were Rick's or McNew's. (Te=to know, etc)

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    Why is the one the only one with a bad connotation? "Nasty and aggressive" The ENFp is a little biased I think ...
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    I agree with the people who think the wording is kinda wonky, they could be better put, but it is a good effort because I can see what they are getting at. I agree with the idea of the quotes for the ENFp, because I do feel I am viewed as completely subjective and base little on "logic" or a person's view of logic, so there is a part of me that tries to be "logical" in effort to not seem illogical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    I do feel I am viewed as completely subjective and base little on "logic" or a person's view of logic, so there is a part of me that tries to be "logical" in effort to not seem illogical.
    Ditto! I had this same conversation with someone last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    As for Fe vs. Fi, it seems to have been approached from a Fe = emotions and Fi = developing/maintaining relationships (in the form of being kind/empathic).
    Er? That is certainly not exclusive to Fi, especially since Fe entails the efficacy (akin to Te efficiency of action) and expression of emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by BLauritson View Post
    From what I've observed, there seems to be two schools of thought regarding this. One school seems to be that the super-ego block is something we're constantly aware of and strive to try and improve but fail miserably and thus spend our lives in eternal pain, suffering and misery. OK, maybe not quite that exaggerated, but you get the picture.

    The other school, which I obviously agree with, hence my satire of the first one, is that it's something we don't normally care about, but to be criticised in that area (directly or indirectly) causes psychological pain for reasons I can't get my head round. There's probably variations on both of these but that's the most common pattern I've noticed in Socionics literature online.

    Basically my personal take on it all is the following:

    - it's something you consider unimportant in life
    - it's stressful to be in a situation that requires heavy use of your super-ego functions
    - (I'm less certain on this one; I don't have enough data or experience to validate it) criticisms relating to your super-ego block cause you to worry about matters relating to your super-id block (an example being when an ESE I used to work with had a go at me for being visibly unhappy at a work party (yes, she really was that shallow. In my experience though, most ESEs aren't like that at all. Thus I feel confident in saying that was an individual trait of hers rather than something type-related), I'd interpreted what she said as that I'd personally offended all my coworkers and thus I started worrying about the status of my relationship with said coworkers. This in turn is validated by the fact that when I noticed they were acting normally towards me, i.e. not shunning me or showing any begrudgement against me, I quickly stopped worrying about it as I realised (from my own perspective at least) that she was just talking bollocks). I say I'm less certain on this one because although that experience and other, lesser, experiences seem to stir that thought pattern within me personally, I don't really know how much it would apply to other individuals. Mainly because I don't have a deep enough understanding of all the functions to visualise how it would work for them. But anyway, I'm rambling.
    - I've completely forgotten everything else I had planned to say here, but chances are I would've written it then removed it due to lack of certainty anyway. Quite frankly I can't even remember where I was going with all of this...I dunno. A lot of it's probably wrong anyway since I (fortunately) don't often experience PoLR hits and I don't have many real life examples of others being in such a situation.
    I suppose it would hurt to be criticized by something that you deem to be unimportant and also which you recognize to be a weakness. Sometimes it hurts because you recognize the necessity of your PoLR to complete a task, and so the PoLR presents itself as a hurdle to overcome.

    That said, I do not exactly agree with the LII one. I think it generally manifests (or to construct it similar to the other ones) as either "I will prove to them that I am not one to be walked on," "I will prove to them I am capable of taking care of this by myself," (which is kind of vague, but hopefully you get the point of it) or "I will prove to them that I have a backbone."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Er? That is certainly not exclusive to Fi, especially since Fe entails the efficacy (akin to Te efficiency of action) and expression of emotions.
    Name one behavior or action that is exclusive to a particular information element.
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