HA vs PoLR

[borromean-ring]

One of the biggest difficulties I'm having is understanding the difference between someone's HA and PoLR. I think I have the basic properties of each one down:

PoLR:
-weak, unvalued, and conscious
-has trouble accepting help from others in this area

HA:
-weak, valued, and unconscious
-willingly accepts help in this area

However, I'm having a lot of trouble identifying in real life the differences between the two, both in myself and in others. Distinguishing them seems subtle, and I think this is probably made even worse by the fact that my own understanding of / is (obviously) my weakest area, making the differentiation of my own PoLR/HA even more impossible.

It seems to me that both the 4th and 6th functions are weak areas that the person would like to improve in. It also seems that at different times, the person may "think" they are competent in both of these, and success in either is very rewarding, and failure in either is very painful.

How can I get better at telling the difference? Both general ideas and specific distinctions of the HA/PoLR's of various types would help me out.

[Expat]

Very simplistically:

You admire, perhaps even envy, those who you see as more confident/competent in your HA than yourself, and you don't like it when people point out your weaknesses in it.

In the case of your PoLR, it's more ambiguous since you tend to think that people who focus a lot on it have got their priorities wrong. You may wish you were better at it if it seems to be necessary to function, but actually you wish you didn't have to concern yourself with it at all.

[borromean-ring]

Ok. Would you say someone is more likely to get cocky and refuse to back down about something pertaining to their PoLR or HA? Or is this irrelevant?

[hellothere]

sounds like HA to me

[borromean-ring]

This seems to be a contradiction on some level. Refusal to back down is stubbornness. But if someone is being stubborn about something, then it's highly unlikely that they want to be assisted by someone else in the immediate future. Unless you want to look at it as a childish plea for help?

I think this is the main source of my confusion. The HA is a valued function, and therefore I think it is associated with "positive" feelings, ie. graciousness and humility. On the other hand, PoLR, being unvalued, is associated with negativity, ie. "who cares". Could one say that one of the features of a well-developed type is their admittance and recognition of their incompetence in their HA, and thereby paving the way for their dual to be allowed to help them?

[hellothere]

hmm, I'll leave someone who understand this better to answer that, but in the meantime, have you seen Expat's "pathetic hidden agenda" thread? It might be useful to you, just do a thread title search for it

[borromean-ring]

Thanks, I checked out Expat's post; it was helpful. What would corresponding PoLR statements be?

I was looking at this: http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/1...-function.html and it seems that both are concerned with "proving" things to everyone else.

So, how do they differ?

[Expat]

This seems to be a contradiction on some level. Refusal to back down is stubbornness. But if someone is being stubborn about something, then it's highly unlikely that they want to be assisted by someone else in the immediate future. Unless you want to look at it as a childish plea for help?

First, I don't think that the "stubborness" thing is the best way to look at it.

Second, "childish plea for help" is better attributed to the 5th (dual-seeking) function.

I think this is the main source of my confusion. The HA is a valued function, and therefore I think it is associated with "positive" feelings, ie. graciousness and humility.

I don't think you should make that association at all.

On the other hand, PoLR, being unvalued, is associated with negativity, ie. "who cares". Could one say that one of the features of a well-developed type is their admittance and recognition of their incompetence in their HA, and thereby paving the way for their dual to be allowed to help them?

People are usually painfully aware of their lack of confidence in their HA. So they want someone around who's good at it and will help them with it -but without, let us say, being too "cocky" about it. It works best with your dual who has it as creative rather than base function.

Some people (or everyone, now and then) overcompensate their lack of confidence in their HA, and end up overdoing it and generally seen as annoying; so I guess you could say that a "well-developed" person will accept the dual's input better.