ENFps & ISTps: their hidden agendas
Hi everyone
I'm attempting to gain a greater understanding of type-related hidden agendas, specifically those of ENFps (to know) and ISTps (to love.)
Could anyone give examples re: how these hidden agendas manifest..?
Also, what behaviors/traits or signals give away a person's hidden agenda?
Any insight will be greatly appreciated.... Stories, examples, anything.
My views:Originally Posted by JuJu
Very simplistically:
- "to know": more inclined to acquire knowledge about, and to use, facts and things that can be seen to work in reality, but without worrying much about how they fit together logically. Very common manifestation in my experience: technical salesmen who stuff their presentations with lots of facts and details that are just padding, not really necessary to the points they are making.
- "to love": more inclined to focus on their inner feelings with regard to other individuals than worry about external emotional atmospheres, especially where other people whom they know less are involved. Example: the person who's very warm and friendly to very close individuals, but who can appear cold, "unfriendly" and "too reserved" in a larger group of people he doesn't know well.
An impression that something's "off" or "out of focus". Like the person is trying too hard, or trying to be good at something they're not obviously so.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Thanks, Expat! That's great, and really helps me.
Regarding the hidden agenda, you write about someone trying to be someting they're not -- and you provide a great example, the technical salesman -- can you think of one for the ISTp? I.e. where the ISTp tries too hard to be something they're not?
Any ISTPs or ENFps out there with examples?
Thanks again everyone
Now this makes sense and is something I can relate to, unlike the 'we' love animals because they'll love us unconditionally and never judge us cliche. Which never applied to me.
For an ISTp, probably trying to be mr./mrs. people person or 'life of the party' would be noticable as 'forced' or 'off' and might seem disingenuous. Just a suggestion off the top of my head.
i like these. they're quite simple but really very good.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Right on!
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
As an ISTp I like to talk about my inner feelings (about things and people) and I always spot and make friends with people whom I can trust, confide, and open up to. My relationships with certain people mean much more to me than it may appear (to them or anyone). I also tend to nurture friendships with people who don't feel the same about me (and hang out with me just because of certain practical benefits) which is a bad thing because it can lead to great disappointments sometimes.
With strangers I am very careful and calculate every word I say. I never answer personal questions when I am unaware of people's motives.
Last edited by Park; 03-19-2008 at 05:08 AM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
That's a very good example.
Fi hidden agenda: an inclination to overestimate their ability to evaluate other people's character. The ISTp is vulnerable to falling in the trap of thinking that he's sure that a friend of his is a good guy, even as other friends see that the friend is an asshole, and the ISTp getting angry with his friends for trying to warn him.
A disastrous example of this in history, if anyone's curious: the relationship between the emperor Tiberius (ISTp) and his right-hand man, Sejanus.
Or, more relevant to Americans: President Grant (ISTp) and the people close to him whom he refused to believe were corrupt.
Yep, seeing the best in some folk, thought of this myself as some sort of hoping to create Fi setting. Guess it's good to see the best in people but sometimes it's not, esp when they eventually suprise you in a not-so-good-way! Need an ENFp to keep me right on this one..come on guys, y'all move to Scotland now?!
Sure, but I'd guess that's more likely to be observed in INTps than ISTps. The Gamma/Delta distinction.This works the other way around too, right?.....like the ISTp thinks someone is a "bad" person. And it's set in stone - non-negotiable.
not
.
Yes, especially if the person keeps acting like a jerk giving no reason for the ISTp to change his mind. And other people can work their asses off to convince him he's wrong but the ISTp won't listen.This works the other way around too, right?.....like the ISTp thinks someone is a "bad" person. And it's set in stone - non-negotiable.
You can never be as resistant as an ISTp can.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Do ISTps doubt whether they made the right judgements about people..? For example, do they ever reconsider someone after deciding whether a person is good or bad -- is the decision set-in-stone or does it just take time for them to reach a new understanding..?This works the other way around too, right?.....like the ISTp thinks someone is a "bad" person. And it's set in stone - non-negotiable.
Any ISTp perspectives on this will be greatly appreciated.
Another thing which might be related to my HA is the fact that I have a natural tendency to protect and aid people, especially the ones I like, thus showing them my "love". And those who 'd accept and appreciate this and act in my defense when I am in trouble have the more chances of creating a bond with me.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
x
Last edited by HitmanISTP; 07-24-2008 at 11:10 PM.
ISTP-Te, Logical Subtype (the jokey one)
EPs' HA
Alright, question.
EPs will always have a dynamic, rational HA. The HA is decidedly rigid, so doesn't this create a bit of a contradiction?
My original question was about Te in IEEs, so I guess I should ask: "What are some typical symptoms of Te HA in IEEs?"
The way I see it is that the XeFi does a lot of exploring of the world around them. It could be physical exploring of the world, gaining experiences of how things work or how the world works, or even mental explorations of the world, gaining ideas about how things and the world works.
The SeFi is more likely to go for actual experiences, and may often find themselves in odd situations. They also have a tendency to retain details from the experience such that when they are talking about it, they will go into painstaking details such as what someone wore, looked like, what the item was and what it did, etc. Often they'll ask questions about something that they are experiencing or have experienced, picking up on the terminology used in describing it. Once they are given specific terms for describing something, they tend to insist on sticking with that term, and have difficulty when someone uses different terms to refer to the same thing. (Note: this is most common in young SeFi who can get very rigid in the terms used….but learn to adapt to those close to them as they gain more experiences of people using different terms for the same thing.)
The NeFi is more likely to go for indirect experiences, including such things as vicariously living through someone else. By this I mean that they will ask a lot of questions of a person, the person's life, the person's interests, the person's experiences….and pick up ideas about the world as seen through this person's eyes. They'll also often utilize books and stories to gain these indirect experiences. When they do have actual personal experiences with something, the memory tends to lose much of the detail and refers itself to the actions taken, emotions felt at the time, and a general overview of the experience is remembered. If any details are remembered, it's usually after first referring to the actions/emotions/overview of the experience. Because the NeFi tends to forget the details, they often have a difficult describing their perceptions of the indirect/direct experience, and will often attempt to give an overview or summary of it.
When both types attempt to create something, or try to get something to work for them, they each tend to lose sight of some of the things that might be involved or need to be included to get the thing to work, or to fully create it. Often these are simple things like forgetting to connect a wire, or not remembering to flip a switch, etc. In the case of the SeFi, it's usually because they are so caught up in the actual experiencing that they're not anticipating other things needed. In the case of the NeFi, it's usually because they are so caught up in the mental experience, that they overlook the physical aspects needed.
SeFi respond well to someone else helping them see the consequences of an action as the SeFi is doing the action, allowing the SeFi to alter their course while they are in motion/experiencing, (kind of like an assistant driver) but they don't respond well to someone telling them the consequences BEFORE they take action…in a way it's seen as preventing them from the freedom of exploration. The other option is to let someone else pick up the pieces or deal with the fall-out after the fact.
NeFi respond well to someone else asking them questions that bring the physical things overlooked to the NeFi's attention. Preferably someone else will cover these aspects. But during the idea stage of a 'plan', the NeFi benefits from being reminded of the real world aspects that they need to keep in mind, or the steps that they need to take in order to achieve that 'goal'. Without this help, the NeFi is left in a state of bewilderment as to what their next step should be, or how to actually go about the creation. There's so many possibilities, so many ways to go, so many things to do, how to choose which one? This is where an SiTe can be of benefit to the NeFi, as the NeFi will initiate the course of action, but when they reach a point of indecisiveness of which direction to take, the SiTe is able to make the decision for them, wherein the NeFi will then initiate action in that direction, thus becoming a self-feeding process between the two.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
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