IEI-IEE extinguishment relations (contrary INFp & ENFp)

[meatburger]

How come INFp's are the dominant girl in my life lol? My exes have been INFp's, and the only two girls that are my friends are INFp's. They seem to be the only girls that are laid back enough to talk to me and laff with me. I think they are just very kind and social beings.

Very confusing. Turn me into an ESTp and i will be set forever

[Creepy-bg]

I got this theory... actually it was something I saw on a cartoon... You sit here in this chair and I hit you over the head with this hammer until you wake up ESTp. Waddya say?!?

[Khola aka Bee]

I got this theory... actually it was something I saw on a cartoon... You sit here in this chair and I hit you over the head with this hammer until you wake up ESTp. Waddya say?!?

Should that've excited me?

[meatburger]

I got this theory... actually it was something I saw on a cartoon... You sit here in this chair and I hit you over the head with this hammer until you wake up ESTp. Waddya say?!?

If it works i will give it a try. ESTp's aren't too bad

Anyway i think INFp's are a treat

[xyz]

I hear INFps love looney tunes.

[meatburger]

I hear INFps love looney tunes.

A lot of them are loony tunes, but thats what i like about them. My friend today told me she dreamt of birds legs getting fanned out in front of her.

[marooned]

A lot of them are loony tunes

[xyz]

A lot of them are loony tunes, but thats what i like about them. My friend today told me she dreamt of birds legs getting fanned out in front of her.

This one made me smile, i'll admit.

[tiny_dancer]

I like INFps. One of my friends will do the peanut butter and jelly at a dance club just for kicks! hehehehe <3

[Creepy-bg]

Should that've excited me?

I don't know. did it?

[schrödinger's cat]

Isn't the relationship between ENFps and INFps supposed to become unpleasant after a while? Or does that just happen if you get too close?

[misutii]

Isn't the relationship between ENFps and INFps supposed to become unpleasant after a while? Or does that just happen if you get too close?

well yah, INFps and ENFps are both amongst the most cleverly lazy, resource intensive, attention demanding types in the socion, so they wear each other out and run out of money fast, this leads to arguments etc. lol

[meatburger]

Isn't the relationship between ENFps and INFps supposed to become unpleasant after a while? Or does that just happen if you get too close?

Yeah the intertype / quadra relations predict this. If you dont over do it theres no reason you cant spend some fun times with each other.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

well yah, INFps and ENFps are both amongst the most cleverly lazy, resource intensive, attention demanding types in the socion, so they wear each other out and run out of money fast, this leads to arguments etc. lol

Wait. Are we that attention-demanding?

[misutii]

Wait. Are we that attention-demanding?

well at least as much as we are lol

[Ali]

I spent my first five months with an IEI during a period when I didn't know anybody and was often listless and depressed. Part of these feelings were the result of our relationship, which I would characterize as "love-hate." On the one hand, I could air my thoughts and feelings and say what I felt around him (that's generally the effect IEIs have on people), and on the other hand, his mannerisms and "everything about him" would suddenly intensely irritate me, and I would feel like physically pushing him away from me and getting him out of my life space.

I had the best of intentions and wanted to be friendly, upbeat, and genuinely interested, but the same love-hate pattern resurfaced almost immediately, and I left dejected about my inability to change anything.

Since then, I have been drawn to and confounded by similar qualities in other IEIs I have become friends with.

Why does it have to be so hard ?
I feel so helpless.. and sad


IEI

[redbaron]

Why does it have to be so hard ?
I feel so helpless.. and sad


IEI

I'm sorry.

[aka-kitsune]

Why does it have to be so hard ?
I feel so helpless.. and sad


IEI

I hear you.
I'm haplessly in lust and/or love with an IEE.

It's because we have poor Si and Te and this irritates IEE's tremendously. It's one of the main problems that my IEE mother has with me; I often feel as if no matter what I do, I simply cannot make her happy. It becomes evident to me that she becomes highly irritated by my natural behavior, and it stresses her out. I become relentlessly exhausted with her constant nagging about my flaws. I feel as if the only times that she is ever really proud of me is when I subconsciously become aware of my poor Si and attempt to make improvements on it; this never last though.

I wonder if my mom is also IEE. Does your mom harp constantly on your lack of orderliness? Growing up, I would NEVER make my bed, and my mom ALWAYS nagged abt that. I am pretty much like "What's the point? Who is going to notice in MY room?"

I'm also quite haphazard about some things like keeping clutter off table surfaces. My mom always makes comments about that. And suggests "improvements" all the time. I swear, no matter how old I get, she still tells me I should brush my hair, "It would look so nice!".

I'm more a fan of the tousled look.

[Ali]

ur mom sounds like an esfj. or well, like a mom!

[Simon Ssmall]

I would deffo type her as a mom

[Ali]

The introvert partner usually becomes distant, relations lose warm feelings and become formal and cautious. Both partners may start regretting that they became too trustful.

The extrovert partner normally gets the false impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against them. This can bring a great deal of misunderstanding and surprise into these relations, as both partners are convinced that before everything was fine. The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticise them. The extrovert partner in return can behave in the same way.

Can anyone suggest how the introvert partner should behave in this case. I know they get this false impression that im acting against them. And i do be the one t hat becomes formal and cautious first (read - close down), when they get it. And i totally realize why they get the False impression - but only *afterwords*. Its then i dont understand what to do. Suppressing (running away), reproach, apologizing all seem to only *mess* it up further. She's an IEE woman, and it completely stiffles her - although she just goes quiet and politely tries to ignore it or just not respond -which then is spiraling..

any advice? this is an incredible friend..

[Ali]

oddly enough, even though we're not mirrors in socionics - i feel she is like me inverted out, of some kind. its a very odd feeling

[Topaz]

I used to have a best friend who was IEI. Lord was he funny. He could make me laugh so hard that I would forgive him for all the nasty, mean (not really mean but naughty) things he'd do to me, like siding with someone else to make fun of me instead of being on my side. When it was just the two of us we were fine and I could talk to him about anything. When others came around I'd have to be on guard cause sometimes he'd switch up loyalties. We were kids and it was all fun and games though.
My older sister is IEI and we get along great. Ive never noticed that problem with her. I do know that if I am to get something accomplished with her I have to take most of the responsibility on myself or really push because she gets distracted.

Ali, my advice would be to enjoy your friendship with this IEE but dont put to much pressure on the relationship to be more than is or it might spell trouble. Spend time together discussing the things that interest you, go to movies or read books together. Dont try to move mountains though.

[Ali]

Ali, my advice would be to enjoy your friendship with this IEE but dont put to much pressure on the relationship to be more than is or it might spell trouble. Spend time together discussing the things that interest you, go to movies or read books together. Dont try to move mountains though.

so THAT's the perception...

good advice, thanks !

[Ali]

I thought the following also highlights it from a different angle:

Imo, I think Fi-valuers hold their emotions in because they don't want to damage their static interpersonal relationships with others, and this can seem fake to Fe-valuers

From an -valuing perspective, that is how -valuing comes across. They never seem terribly verbal about what they are feeling, and so they are constantly leaving you in the emotional dark as to their feelings and their current emotional states.

Also... from my pov, sometimes feels restrained and measured. (ie: "This is your dose for now"). It can feel static, rigid and fixed. There's a distinct sense of boundary.

If these immediate concerns of are not addressed over a long time, it can prove dreadfully damaging to the long-term

.................That's why it would worry me so much if immediate Fe was not expressed/addressed.

but.......

I'm sure that fe can often seem overwhelming and unnecessarily dramatic to fi-valuing types. I can imagine that Fi-valuing types either often cannot fathom why emotional display is called for given circumstances, judging by their own preferences for conservative feelings, or believe emotions are inappropriate given the relationship of person to person. (ie: "We are not that close, so you should not feel x at this point").

I can literally see his Fi ascribing causes to my behavior without as much attention to the specific situation

and

this IEE but dont put to much pressure on the relationship to be more than is

- an afterthought to the last quote, don't keep or exhibit such which projects expectations on the relation with the IEE


if that kinda adds up, me thinks...

[jewels]

this is interesting. I like to hear more responses to this topic.

I know with an IEI friend of mine, I sometimes feel like I don't understand his emotions, like he is keeping me in the dark. Maybe it's a mutual confusion?

There are times I would like to just scream or pour out all my emotions (and I have occasionally), but I usually do feel like that'd be immature, epecially since I can say some very blunt and hurtfull things the times I have done that -- it's less damaging if I just try to talk about things calmly. Maybe it is the Fi, but I also don't tell people how I feel unless they ask a lot of questions and draw that out, because otherwise I feel like I'm imposing all that emotion onto them when it really isn't their business (especially if they don't know/care that much about me)

But maybe IEIs don't talk about any deep feelings of theirs unless someone else is very Fe emotional around them, to like show them that is OK to share? I say that because usually people pour out their feelings to me fast (girls and guys) because I'm so curious how people feel about things, but this IEI keeps everything tucked away and I don't usually know that sort of thing about him.

The other week I'd had a super stressful time and (out of character for me) I had this verbal rant for like 10 minutes and just poured it all out and he just sat there listening. and I apologized for dumping all of that on him, but then he said some things about his own life. so maybe IEIs need to see others express a lot of emotion (like their dual would), in order to express their own?

If that's the case I don't think IEE and them could ever be the best of buds because there wouldn't be anyone to "give in" first as far as revealing themselves emotionally.

[misutii]

this is interesting. I like to hear more responses to this topic.

I know with an IEI friend of mine, I sometimes feel like I don't understand his emotions, like he is keeping me in the dark. Maybe it's a mutual confusion?

There are times I would like to just scream or pour out all my emotions (and I have occasionally), but I usually do feel like that'd be immature, epecially since I can say some very blunt and hurtfull things the times I have done that -- it's less damaging if I just try to talk about things calmly. Maybe it is the Fi, but I also don't tell people how I feel unless they ask a lot of questions and draw that out, because otherwise I feel like I'm imposing all that emotion onto them when it really isn't their business (especially if they don't know/care that much about me)

But maybe IEIs don't talk about any deep feelings of theirs unless someone else is very Fe emotional around them, to like show them that is OK to share? I say that because usually people pour out their feelings to me fast (girls and guys) because I'm so curious how people feel about things, but this IEI keeps everything tucked away and I don't usually know that sort of thing about him.

The other week I'd had a super stressful time and (out of character for me) I had this verbal rant for like 10 minutes and just poured it all out and he just sat there listening. and I apologized for dumping all of that on him, but then he said some things about his own life. so maybe IEIs need to see others express a lot of emotion (like their dual would), in order to express their own?

If that's the case I don't think IEE and them could ever be the best of buds because there wouldn't be anyone to "give in" first as far as revealing themselves emotionally.

Yah I don't think IEIs tend to reveal their emotions just by "talking" to them calmly, personally I don't get "emotional" unless there's some kind of external event that demands it. For example I need to be doing something with someone and upon coming upon a difficult situation I'll reveal to them a situation, which, in the past, made me feel similarly. The purpose of this is usually to make the other person feel "better" about the current difficulty. I guess this is Fe>Fi. Also in the past when I've had to console someone I cared about I'd do something similar. However, I never really talk about my emotions for the sake of conversation. In fact I personally don't believe that you can get to know a person simply by talking to them. I don't think people reveal their true selves in safe, secured, environments, external situations are needed in order to reveal who they really are, by seeing how they act/react so to speak.

[redbaron]

Yah I don't think IEIs tend to reveal their emotions just by "talking" to them calmly, personally I don't get "emotional" unless there's some kind of external event that demands it. For example I need to be doing something with someone and upon coming upon a difficult situation I'll reveal to them a situation, which, in the past, made me feel similarly. The purpose of this is usually to make the other person feel "better" about the current difficulty. I guess this is Fe>Fi. Also in the past when I've had to console someone I cared about I'd do something similar. However, I never really talk about my emotions for the sake of conversation. In fact I personally don't believe that you can get to know a person simply by talking to them. I don't think people reveal their true selves in safe, secured, environments, external situations are needed in order to reveal who they really are, by seeing how they act/react so to speak.

Same here.

[aka-kitsune]

But maybe IEIs don't talk about any deep feelings of theirs unless someone else is very Fe emotional around them, to like show them that is OK to share? I say that because usually people pour out their feelings to me fast (girls and guys) because I'm so curious how people feel about things, but this IEI keeps everything tucked away and I don't usually know that sort of thing about him.

I usually find myself revealing "deep feelings" when I want to foster a greater closeness between myself and another. Usually, occasion is prompted by internal ruminations bubbling to the surface. Current events sort of resonating, echoes of the past, similar situations, "re-membering" feelings that seek further elaboration, further and fuller expression.

I think IEIs want to be drawn out; I know I'm always watching for that compelling sense of entering a really meaningful moment, when I can really connect with someone I care for. But really, I don't want to reveal myself to just anyone. It's almost always very purposeful. I'm careful not to invest too much of my emotional energy in superficial contact, so I'm certain I come off to many people as closed. I prefer to share with a smaller circle more deeply than spread myself too thin. At any given time, my reserves just seem limited, so I direct and ration them in places I feel are a bigger emotional "payoff" for me.

The other week I'd had a super stressful time and (out of character for me) I had this verbal rant for like 10 minutes and just poured it all out and he just sat there listening. and I apologized for dumping all of that on him, but then he said some things about his own life. so maybe IEIs need to see others express a lot of emotion (like their dual would), in order to express their own?

Not really for me. I'm more than willing to be the first one to move things along by taking the risk of self-revealing, when I'm trying to break a barrier to real intimacy. There's always a moment where I'm acutely aware that the walls have come down between myself and another for the first time. Sometimes the moment evolves, and sometimes I deliberately act as the catalyst.

No friend of mine needs to apologize to me for expressing their authentic feelings. I see it more as a privilege and a trust.

If that's the case I don't think IEE and them could ever be the best of buds because there wouldn't be anyone to "give in" first as far as revealing themselves emotionally.

This has been a study lately for me... there definitely is a gap in emotional understanding between IEI and IEE. Despite a verisimilitude in feeling states, I've seen it takes a bit of effort to actually arrive at the same place in actual understanding. I believe this has to do with the difference in expression between and in the creative position. in an IEE isn't necessarily very clearly expressed. A sentiment that sounds sympathetic internally to the IEE, may sound condescending when it reaches an IEI. Not necessarily false, but perhaps somewhat removed from the authentic internal source. To me, it occasionally sounds like an approximation of vulnerability where the real stuff remains still hidden below. IEEs seem much more conservative with actual moments than IEIs. Perhaps it takes more effort to access them...?

I'm not sure I can really word my perceptions accurately.

[jewels]

I usually find myself revealing "deep feelings" when I want to foster a greater closeness between myself and another.

True. Actually, it's possible this "friend" didn't want to get too close I think.

This has been a study lately for me... there definitely is a gap in emotional understanding between IEI and IEE. Despite a verisimilitude in feeling states, I've seen it takes a bit of effort to actually arrive at the same place in actual understanding. I believe this has to do with the difference in expression between and in the creative position. in an IEE isn't necessarily very clearly expressed. A sentiment that sounds sympathetic internally to the IEE, may sound condescending when it reaches an IEI. Not necessarily false, but perhaps somewhat removed from the authentic internal source. To me, it occasionally sounds like an approximation of vulnerability where the real stuff remains still hidden below. IEEs seem much more conservative with actual moments than IEIs. Perhaps it takes more effort to access them...?

I'm not sure I can really word my perceptions accurately.

I agree. And also, INFps tend to use huge words like verisimilitude -- I would have to go look that up. My INFp friend also has an enormous vocabulary and it does confuse me at times.

It may be that INFPs are a type that ENFps really, really want to get closer to -- and you know how ENFps like that challenge -- yet, it may not be possible. I always feel this surface-level thing going on with the INFp, despite it being a fairly long friendship of several months. And i'm always surprised he initiates wanting to hang out again. If only we could all understand eachother better

[aka-kitsune]

It may be that INFPs are a type that ENFps really, really want to get closer to -- and you know how ENFps like that challenge -- yet, it may not be possible. I always feel this surface-level thing going on with the INFp, despite it being a fairly long friendship of several months. And i'm always surprised he initiates wanting to hang out again. If only we could all understand eachother better

While I think it's certainly possible to get closer (and worth it, otherwise I wouldn't bother), I also have found it's very gradual going. Several months is nothing -- I've already invested over a year in getting closer to one IEE. :wink:

I also believe IEIs deeper emotions and strong reactions may scare whomever they're directed towards, so there's always the possibility that he's concerned about your reaction to his inner world. IEEs can often seem to be more comfortable skating on the surface than being immersed in the depths of IEI impressions. IEI intensity is an acquired taste, I think.

[jewels]

sigh. This INFp ended up being...a player. How is this possible? Who would have thought INFps were even capable of that? I think I have managed to date player versions of just about all 16 types. The INFp players don't really seem to be, until you look back.

[Topaz]

sigh. This INFp ended up being...a player. How is this possible? Who would have thought INFps were even capable of that? I think I have managed to date player versions of just about all 16 types. The INFp players don't really seem to be, until you look back.

[aka-kitsune]

sigh. This INFp ended up being...a player. How is this possible? Who would have thought INFps were even capable of that? I think I have managed to date player versions of just about all 16 types. The INFp players don't really seem to be, until you look back.

I really can't fathom it myself. I've only been accused of being too intense and too serious about my attractions. I'm like a laser beam.

All that I can think is either you've mistyped him as IEI or else the male IEI is simply prone to overcompensate for sensitivity and insecurity by crappy chauvinistic antics.

[jewels]

I really can't fathom it myself. I've only been accused of being too intense and too serious about my attractions. I'm like a laser beam.

All that I can think is either you've mistyped him as IEI or else the male IEI is simply prone to overcompensate for sensitivity and insecurity by crappy chauvinistic antics.

Yeah, I don't think most INFps would be players. But perhaps when you take that "laser beam intensity" and spread that around to a bunch of people, it turns into a floodlight, which would be easier for an INFp to deal w/ if they don't want to get attached. But I've gotta take some responsibility, as I have somehow attracted players from all quadras.

I love your sig btw! Wasn't Mark Twain an ENFp?

[aka-kitsune]

Yeah, I don't think most INFps would be players. But perhaps when you take that "laser beam intensity" and spread that around to a bunch of people, it turns into a floodlight, which would be easier for an INFp to deal w/ if they don't want to get attached. But I've gotta take some responsibility, as I have somehow attracted players from all quadras.

Hmm... perhaps it's just that males of all types and stripes are generally much better at compartmentalizing.

I love your sig btw! Wasn't Mark Twain an ENFp?

Thanks!

Was he an IEE? That would be apropos. I rather covet IEE-ness.

[Ali]

here are some more quotes i found on the forum which are relevant me thinks - mostly in terms of fi fe..trying to gather different perspectives in one place

Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
I always feel like I mess up around Fi people when I was just trying to make a good impression....when I was fucking being myself...."calm down".....I hate that.....I feel like I'm walking on eggshells around Fi people...it always feels like they're judging me......reading into me, my motives, finding manipulations and tricks and slyness where there isn't any

(coming from a Fe?)

nd then it feels like there's so much disappointment--I can see it in their eyes, even when I'm trying my best. I feel as though I've let them down, simply by being myself. Makes me want to just go away.

one of the common difficulties between enfp and infp is when
1. an infp interprets the actions of an enfp as if the enfp were an infp
2. an enfp interprets the actions of an infp as if the infp were an enfp

Fe folks have Fi, Fi folks have Fe, they just put a different weight on which one is most important to them --- the mostly unspoken bond, or the declarations and expressions of closeness.

Her ethics are Fi. Your's are Fe. You are upset that she would destroy the atmosphere like that and make people feel bad. She was upset that you put her personal relationships on the line like that. This is a very good example of Fe-Fi.

distinction between an Fe interpretation of Fi....and an Fi interpretation of Fe....as well as how easy it is for us to assume that others respond to things the way we would...and/or do/say things with the same intent as we would have were we to say/do the same things.

and, there really IS a reason why INFp and ENFp are contrary pairs....and it makes a lot of sense to me the issues that INFp and ENFp commonly have. It's like, in so many ways we are very similar to each other but the subtle distinctions can really throw a wrench in the relationship (it doesn't have to...it just usually tends to).

[unefille]

I'm getting more and more confused the more I read in this thread. I have been quite certain of my IEE-ness, but here I connect with the IEI>IEE, I think... Is it possible to be a very open and forceful IEI with Delta-like-values.....? Is there any way to know for sure...? Or maybe creative Fi is not as static as you describe it...?

I don't know what you mean by 'Delta-like-values' exactly, but I would say yes, if only because I identified with Delta for such a long time and of all the things that felt 'off' too me, the values as they were described on wikisocion and other sources, didn't.

[unefille]

OH NO! Not you... :wink:

Well. I did land on IEE as the Beta description didn't seem to fit me, so you sure mess up my understanding of the quadras... For the rest I can't really tell which of my values are really MINE and which ones I've adopted from others. I have a lot of problems defining my boundaries. Where do I stop and others begin...? What's the real me and what was learned?

I'm just an evil little EIE sprite, I believe...

Deciding I was Beta has been a very interesting experience for me and I think a lot of the Beta values as they were written (I'm not sure who wrote them) describe Beta behaviour from the outside looking in, through quite a distorted lens. As an example, one of the things I often see is that Beta NFs have this need to be 'special' and I just didn't agree. Eventually I realised that was being described as 'needing to be special' was essentially a form of identity protection. and creates a very subjective understanding of the self and when people try to use 'objective facts' to prove that my experiences were wrong, I react badly because for me, a large part of who I am, if not all of me, is made up what I personally (and yes, subjectively) perceive, therefore denying my perception their 'realness' essentially erases me (melodramatic moment!).

But to be very frank (and yet not wanting to make you feel like I go around, trying to confuse you about what type you are), what you wrote there about personal boundaries and not knowing who you are and what of you comes from others...that sounds very and to me. At least, it is something I have said, to myself and to other people, many times, over and over again. Locating the self is an experiential mess, for me.

[unefille]

Oh, no... You successfully managed to throw me back into being an NF. I'd really like to have the other two letters back, please...

To be a little more constructive, where I feel confused is when it comes to the use of Fe and Fi, as expressed in this thread. I often end up with people in here questionning my Fi, telling me I seem more Fe-valuing. However, I've also read somewhere that creative Fi can be mistaken for Fe (I think Slacker Mom mentionned it yesterday as well).

Hmm, because EIEs and IEEs are quasi-identicals, what I have to say (with Fi as my 7th function) might not be all that instructive, but I might as well share it.

A friend of mine is SEE and she uses Fi and Fe very differently from me. She 'connects' to people. I 'enjoy' people. She forges a bond with people and she knows what she's doing. Sometimes she mentions telling them something 'special' because that tightens the bond - choosing to share herself in a sense. At all times, she's concerned with the bond between herself and the other person. Her use of Fe (she's very warm, friendly and responsive to the people she's connecting with) is strong, but it's devalued because all the Fe information is just to help her strengthen a static bond.

I am less concerned with the bond between me and other people than how I am reacting to them and how they are reacting to me. That doesn't mean I don't care about other people at all or their relationships to me or that I go around wanting to charm people but not wanting to be friends. I do very much want that. But when I'm talking to them, I'm very much more concerned with their reactions: I want to make them laugh, to make them sympathise, to make them listen. I use my Fi in order to tell me how I might better adjust my Fe. Depending on the relationship I have with a certain person, I will behave differently and my Fe will be more effective.