duals and supporting subtypes

[fen]

Yeah good points and I'm very aware of all that. We're dealing with generalisations here, and I do think a big part of the fun is knowing that despite discovering/seeing clear structures and patterns your models will never be perfect, and there'll always be exceptions to blow your mind. But there wouldn't be much point to this forum if we just labeled everything as NTR. I have a strong tendency to find Te subtypes too rigid and rational, but like I said, it may happen that either my perceptions changes or I'll meet "mr exception".

Mr. Exception.

[Codie]

Matching subtypes are ideal (ie: Ti ILE and Fe SEI). Dissenting subtype means a conflicting preference for either neighboring quadra. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it just means you'll each drift slightly towards different people. Duality is strong either way. The absence of loyalty and commitment is the only threat to a mismatched subtype relationship because it opens the possibility one ditching (or at least, putting second) the mismatched old friend for a new matched friend.

Ooh "dissenting" i like that word. It's interesting I'm IEI-Fe (i think) and I do have a slight preference for alphas I guess... I'd take an ILE- over SEE- anytime.

[Miso Soup]

Ooh "dissenting" i like that word. It's interesting I'm IEI-Fe (i think) and I do have a slight preference for alphas I guess... I'd take an ILE- over SEE- anytime.

Why thank you. I like that word as well. An IEI-Fe would have a preference for alpha. Do you think it's because of the emphasis put on the Fe which compliments the Ti ILE's emphasis on Ti, or do you think it's because of the inert/contact subtype theory that either subtype accentuates the functions 'below' it on the type diagram?

[Azure Flame]

I was about to make a thread on this.

I have tons of IEI-Ni friends. I have one IEI-Fe friend. I get along pretty easily with IEI-Ni, however in relationships, their melancholy and their inner drama is quite a trip... but they're just not outgoing enough.

IEI-Fe's, to me, are freaking terrifying. They're so damn outgoing, I tremble at the thought of talking to one again. Been looking for someone similar ever since I met one 2 years ago (she approached me and invited me out with her). I think they're usually in the form of IEI E2.

The whole situation made me think twice over the duality description when it talks about the extrovert vs the introvert. I'm convinced introverted subtypes are INTROVERTS in the general sense, while extroverted subtypes are EXTROVERTS in the general sense.

I haven't even bothered talking to any more IEI-Ni's after I met an Fe subtype... let alone give a shit about any other women outside of the type. And this was my decision before I read socionics.

[Codie]

nr 1 is correct. accepting + accepting and producing + producing.

It's quite easy to feel when you are with your dual. Same subtypes gives you more of a soulmate feeling than differing subtypes.

Yeah this... I know what you mean

[Leader]

....Subtypes are a mindset, based on whether or not you're achieving your hidden agenda. The less you're achieving your HA, the more stressed you are, the more you use your creative to solve your HA.

Also, i've noticed a few things. If you're not surrounded by an environment, or people (types) that value functions you're good at, you'll grow up unhealthy, like I was. I used to always rely heavily on Ti, I would retreat and remain reserved because no one truly understood me (Fe HA is to be loved, or really...to be understood). I was always a bit too awkward in my relationships with people because I didn't really know how to act, and hadn't developed my super-id block functions. As I grew, I became best friends with my cousin ENFJ, and we got along pretty decently. This was the first step in achieving my HA, and by being around this ENFJ and his Fe (you pick up traits from the people you hang with, which is why its best to hang around people of your quadra so you can become confident in your base), I started to naturally develop and understanding of my Fe, but this was only from understanding the ENFJ variety of Fe. I still wasn't good at it, because in social situations I would use Fe, but the Fe would emulate ENFJ's more hectic and "loud" Fe. So it was a bit off and too much.

It was only a couple of months ago that I changed really. I fell in love with this INFp (fuck that dumb bitch and fuck love). Falling in love really changes you (you become dualized, you accept your natural self). It went exactly how dualization occurs. At first I didn't really notice her, she approached me first, but it was like she was just another person, even though there was something about her that I couldnt put my finger on. Gradually we began to get close, and then the games began. She would run (her Ni) and I would chase after her (my Se), doing everything to try to win her over, and this shit would continue for months. Mind you, the chase wasn't just direct (Being more Ti oriented at first I would move slow, but then become more impatient and learned to be more aggressive and just going up to her when I saw she was open so I could talk to her), but indirect (example: I started to become more confident with my Se and in myself so I dressed better not only because I was becoming more confident with Se, but to show off my Se to her).

At the same time, although I don't know if this is due to maturity or really being around her, but as the months passed by I just naturally began to become good with my not only my Se, but my Fe. By being in love with my dual, her Ni calmed me down and being at peace and thinking I was loved, I was more able to express my feelings and emotions not only toward her but toward everyone else. I changed from being overly Ti, to being more in the moment Se because my HA was being fulfilled and I was at ease, but I also learned to control Fe better. I became much more understanding, outgoing, confident, and charming, although inside I always had these qualities.

When I think back, I've met a lot of INFps. Even the ones that seemed to use more Ni, would approach me first with some kind of Fe, always approached me first. This INFp im talking about uses more bubbly Fe, when around people in general, but with my internal understanding of socionics. and -knowing- her, I can tell that its not the "real" her. Im not explaining it exactly how I want to but when she uses her Fe its like its protecting her Ni. She uses it to immerse herself in other people's inner worlds and to understand them. When shes with me, shes changes and becomes totally Ni and submissive.

So anyways, if you can sort through all of that, basically what im saying is subtypes aren't really types at all but mindsets we are in depending on whether or not we are getting what we want.

Producing subtype tries to use its creative to produce a change in the world to get its HA, accepting subtype already has that agenda fulfilled, accepts the world for what it is because it is at peace and in its natural state because its HA is fulfilled.

Another thing I noticed, while I got stronger with Ni (more patient, reflecting back on things like the relationship) and Fe (more confident with my expressing my emotions, being more social), she became stronger and more confident in Ti (her reasoning and understanding of the material world) and Se (more forceful and doing alot more physical labor when im around....despite being very airy and feminine).

[FDG]

....Subtypes are a mindset, based on whether or not you're achieving your hidden agenda. The less you're achieving your HA, the more stressed you are, the more you use your creative to solve your HA.

Not really and necessarily, because you need to consider that IPs and EJs peak in positivism at their creative subtype - so they are generally less "stressed" than their accepting counterpart. What you may be perceiving is the negativism associated with creative subtypes in EPs.