An INFj's opinion about ESTjs

[xyz]

Can suck a dick….

Idiotic. Alcoholic. Egotistic. Chauvinistic.

With all the foresight of a lobotomized cycloptic ogre, and a sense of propriety that includes slugging back can after can of Budweiser beer and groping toward the closest female form.

LSE: You can suck a fat dick and swallow.

The kitty knows how you feel.

[Christy B]

The kitty knows how you feel.

Lol.. That cat has more money next to that cup than I have in my bank account right now!

[UDP]

Can suck a dick….

Idiotic. Alcoholic. Egotistic. Chauvinistic.

With all the foresight of a lobotomized cycloptic ogre, and a sense of propriety that includes slugging back can after can of Budweiser beer and groping toward the closest female form.

LSE: You can suck a fat dick and swallow.

Hmm. Well now that you understand this about him, you can stay away from such - that's your job now. My condolences.

I'll see what I can do about the lack of men suitable for decent relationships... it will take a long time, but there are some candidates.

[07490]

Can suck a dick….

Idiotic. Alcoholic. Egotistic. Chauvinistic.

With all the foresight of a lobotomized cycloptic ogre, and a sense of propriety that includes slugging back can after can of Budweiser beer and groping toward the closest female form.

LSE: You can suck a fat dick and swallow.

Christy, I have always wonder about this too. My INFj friend really really hate MOST ESTj she encounters.

[07490]

Wierd. Every LSE I've met was really proper and an energetic workaholic type. Two Si-cre. one of which was definitely LSE were joint-valedictorians at my high school graduation.

Ni polr, depending on how they grew up and what they saw in life, they can be the wonderful guardian(LSE) or Caretaker(ESE) or far worse, if they saw unjust things as being part of their tradition, they will likely to think its fine becuase everyone is like that.

[scrith]

Ni polr, depending on how they grew up and what they saw in life, they can be the wonderful guardian(LSE) or Caretaker(ESE) or far worse, if they saw unjust things as being part of their tradition, they will likely to think its fine becuase everyone is like that.

How is that relate to Ni?

[07490]

How is that relate to Ni?

Changing your inner view, then translating it to the outter world is NI. At least that type of change is associate to NI, of course NE has their own way of change too. here:

read the LSE's NI function

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=LSE

and this for ESE, I know this is meyer brigg's page but I think it fits acurately

http://www.personalitypage.com/ESFJ.html

"The ESFJ's value system is defined externally. They usually have very well-formed ideas about the way things should be, and are not shy about expressing these opinions. However, they weigh their values and morals against the world around them, rather than against an internal value system. They may have a strong moral code, but it is defined by the community that they live in, rather than by any strongly felt internal values.

ESFJs who have had the benefit of being raised and surrounded by a strong value system that is ethical and centered around genuine goodness will most likely be the kindest, most generous souls who will gladly give you the shirt off of their back without a second thought. For these individuals, the selfless quality of their personality type is genuine and pure. ESFJs who have not had the advantage of developing their own values by weighing them against a good external value system may develop very questionable values. In such cases, the ESFJ most often genuinely believes in the integrity of their skewed value system. They have no internal understanding of values to set them straight. In weighing their values against our society, they find plenty of support for whatever moral transgression they wish to justify. This type of ESFJ is a dangerous person indeed. Extraverted Feeling drives them to control and manipulate, and their lack of Intuition prevents them from seeing the big picture. They're usually quite popular and good with people, and good at manipulating them. Unlike their ENFJ cousin, they don't have Intuition to help them understand the real consequences of their actions. They are driven to manipulate other to achieve their own ends, yet they believe that they are following a solid moral code of conduct."

[UDP]

Ni polr, depending on how they grew up and what they saw in life, they can be the wonderful guardian(LSE) or Caretaker(ESE) or far worse, if they saw unjust things as being part of their tradition, they will likely to think its fine becuase everyone is like that.

That's actually not far from the truth.
Particularly in terms of morality and how to treat other people. (for me)
It's something I can attest to personally.

Ni polr people need other people to introduce new ideas to them. We can extrapolate things going down the line, master something.... but there has to be someone to introduce new ways of considering things or new avenues for mastery.

[redbaron]

Wierd. Every LSE I've met was really proper and an energetic workaholic type. Two Si-cre. one of which was definitely LSE were joint-valedictorians at my high school graduation.

I know a couple of really great LSEs.

[1981slater]

I know a couple of really great LSEs.

...and they are fictional characters

[redbaron]

...and they are fictional characters

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

ESFjs just need to look internally a bit better, my INTj dad helps my ESFj mom with this though by just kinda directly telling her if she broke somebody else's subjective moral codes via her actions, not guilt-tripping them by talking in over generalities like I might. They are very sensitive to the connection of ideas, so much so that they can easily be misled by fuzzy ideals.

Ni egos like myself, understand ideals so well, both bad and good ideals, and we know how to connect them with actual reality. there ni just can't be malleable, so it's like- they have a very rough, cartoony approach. They are well aware of this weakness, but any time they correct it- they just end up missing the mark.

I know it's corny, but they basically seem like 'human doings' not 'human beings.' Not that my dreamy, 'somewhere else' blah is socially acceptable either, but...

IEIs were probably the first people to challenge faulty Christian ideals, whereas ESEs were the first to be manipulated by them. In fact, an evil IEI priest that just wants money tends to plant their infected brains into hapless ESEs.

[Christy B]

Fuck you LSE!!!!

[strrrng]

LOL... Christy... they're just pretty-boy douch bags who go for easy fucks and drink too much You need someone smarter.

[Satan]

LOL... Christy... they're just pretty-boy douch bags who go for easy fucks and drink too much You need someone smarter.

Maybe she likes to be taken advantage of.

[Exodus]

Christy, I have always wonder about this too. My INFj friend really really hate MOST ESTj she encounters.

That doesn't make sense. Maybe you should reconsider their types.

[UDP]

If most ESTjs she encounters are terrible people, then could make sense.
Seeing a crappy version of your dual isn't supposed to be appealing; it can be very disappointing.

[Christy B]

LOL... Christy... they're just pretty-boy douch bags who go for easy fucks and drink too much You need someone smarter.

But I don't know any not pretty-boy douche-bag LSEs that are smart.... they like don't really exist or something

I'm doomed....

[cracka]

But I don't know any not pretty-boy douche-bag LSEs that are smart.... they like don't really exist or something

I'm doomed....

Sux to be you.

[Christy B]

Sux to be you.

Naw.. I'm OK... just being a whiny bitch cause I got my <3 broken .... lol

[tiny_dancer]

That sucks. The couple LSEs I've met have been great people.

[redbaron]

there are good LSEs out there. somewhere.

[tiny_dancer]

Which reminds me - this 'somewhere' you were at, Christy, wasn't a frat party, was it?

[07490]

there are good LSEs out there. somewhere.

UDP?

[redbaron]

UDP?

LOL! I had the same thought!

[jewels]

But I don't know any not pretty-boy douche-bag LSEs that are smart.... they like don't really exist or something

I'm doomed....

That sucks But don't give up! being a bastard isn't type related -- there are some great LSEs out there...somewhere...

[meatburger]

My friends a great LSE. Laid back, good sense of humour, confident, incredible memory and quick mind, doctor, not chauvinistic, itiotic or alcoholic at all. Is perhaps a little egotistical though

I actually have been wondering lately if im partly responsible for him turning out so awesome. Ever since hes been 5 years old hes had an Enfp as his friend to be nice to him and feed him . Of course the fact that he has been with his dual for such a long time might also have played a huge part too. I have my part to play in him meeting her aswell. Of course some of my good qualities probablly come from him too

[UDP]

My friends a great LSE. Laid back, good sense of humour, confident, incredible memory and quick mind, doctor, not chauvinistic, itiotic or alcoholic at all. Is perhaps a little egotistical though

I actually have been wondering lately if im partly responsible for him turning out so awesome. Ever since hes been 5 years old hes had an Enfp as his friend to be nice to him and feed him . Of course the fact that he has been with his dual for such a long time might also have played a huge part too. I have my part to play in him meeting her aswell. Of course some of my good qualities probablly come from him too

Hmm, good point. LSE's probably will always be a little egotistical.

And having someone to feed you Ne is very, very important. Much of my actual development has come to running into people with that, or at least with other ideas.

[Creepy-]

My friends a great LSE. Laid back, good sense of humour, confident, incredible memory and quick mind, doctor, not chauvinistic, itiotic or alcoholic at all. Is perhaps a little egotistical though

I actually have been wondering lately if im partly responsible for him turning out so awesome. Ever since hes been 5 years old hes had an Enfp as his friend to be nice to him and feed him . Of course the fact that he has been with his dual for such a long time might also have played a huge part too. I have my part to play in him meeting her aswell. Of course some of my good qualities probablly come from him too

This is interesting - you most likely did have a significant positive impact. Do you feel like he had an influence on you as well w his TeSi?

[meatburger]

This is interesting - you most likely did have a significant positive impact. Do you feel like he had an influence on you as well w his TeSi?

Functionally wise im not sure if he has helped me develop my Te or Si to any extent. He has always accepted and liked me for who i am though, which i think its a very powerful thing. He may have encouraged me to work on my and which is good .

Ive noticed he seems to seek his own Ne via the internet himself. Hes a member of that stumbleupon website and is constantly finding interesting things. One thing i have noticed from ALL Ne types, is they are constantly searching for interesting things, and the internet is an excellent place to do it. The other day when i was drunk he said "have you seen the clip with the throwing of the balls?" and i said "yes i have". He glared at me and said "explain the premise of it to me" and i said "i cant really remember at the moment" (ive probablly seen 5 or 6 clips of something similar). He didn't seem too happy about this so he started telling the story and mid way through i said "this is the one where the monkey walks through and no one notices isn't it?". It kind of ruined his story lol but he deserved it for not believing me

Actually when i think about it, perhaps he was just always a high quality person even at age 5 because ive been friends with an ISTp since then and he hasn't turned out too flash at all. At the age of 5 he had problems, and he has them now

[eunice]

ESTj is a fantasy.

[Smilingeyes]

This thread bothers me. When someone basically bitches about my actions I wonder why I should take any notice at all. The only way I'd support a dual like that is by tolerating the verbal abuse, ignoring the person and continuing doing whatever I felt like doing. In comparison, when someone either earnestly enjoys whatever I'm doing or suggests another way of going about their business, I feel like trying to make myself a better person and helping my dual feel happier. On this forum I see this quality in Minde and to a lesser extent in Sereno and Linalee. If I had to tolerate the kind of thing that goes on in this thread, I'd probably opt for taking a drink and watching porn with earphones too. I think you're partially responsible for the fact that your idea of your duals remains a fantasy.

[Trevor]

Wierd. Every LSE I've met was really proper and an energetic workaholic type.

Same here.

EDIT: There was this one ESTj who, objectively speaking, wasn't really proper. But, and this is very characteristic of ESTjs, he thought he is being proper and stuff.

When you think you're proper being selfrighteous is natural thing to be. Also characteristic of ESTjs. IMO.

[munenori2]

Hmm, good point. LSE's probably will always be a little egotistical.

And having someone to feed you Ne is very, very important. Much of my actual development has come to running into people with that, or at least with other ideas.

Why so how so?

[UDP]

For one thing, consider how their duals are more "self sacrificing". LSE definitely balances that out in terms of the duality, so they are going to be more "self centered", at least in terms of beneficial things. I doubt LSEs are prone to spending time on things they don't think are useful or beneficial to them. Not the EIIs are, but, in the realm of interpersonal relations, the EII is better at paying sincere attention to people.

This doesn't mean all LSE's are going to be "conceited assholes", no. And they can be magnanimous towards people they care about, too. But, say, compare an LSE to an SEI, whom the LSE supervises. The LSE will seem more self centered. LSE's will be concerned with ensuring their well being, and that they are doing what they want to do.

[Smilingeyes]

The care-taking activity that ESTjs are famous for, is a physical form of care-taking. This should not be thought to be synonymous with actual caring. It's a form of parading oneself, showing one's ability to handle things, get things done. It's also a form of practice. ESTjs like to take on challenges, decrease their personal limitations. Within the delta-rational duality the warmth comes from Fi. We don't have it. We need it.

[Minde]

Anyone can be good and kind and care about others. That is dependent on character, imo, not personality/socionics type.

I am sorry for your disappointments, Christy.


EDIT: I just realized that contextually it could appear I'm round-aboutly slighting Smilingeyes' (and perhaps even UDP's) character. That wasn't my intention.

[munenori2]

For one thing, consider how their duals are more "self sacrificing". LSE definitely balances that out in terms of the duality, so they are going to be more "self centered", at least in terms of beneficial things. I doubt LSEs are prone to spending time on things they don't think are useful or beneficial to them. Not the EIIs are, but, in the realm of interpersonal relations, the EII is better at paying sincere attention to people.

This doesn't mean all LSE's are going to be "conceited assholes", no. And they can be magnanimous towards people they care about, too. But, say, compare an LSE to an SEI, whom the LSE supervises. The LSE will seem more self centered. LSE's will be concerned with ensuring their well being, and that they are doing what they want to do.

The care-taking activity that ESTjs are famous for, is a physical form of care-taking. This should not be thought to be synonymous with actual caring. It's a form of parading oneself, showing one's ability to handle things, get things done. It's also a form of practice. ESTjs like to take on challenges, decrease their personal limitations. Within the delta-rational duality the warmth comes from Fi. We don't have it. We need it.

Maybe I'd have to experience this irl to really judge, but it makes me doubt that the two people I've thought could be ESTj's are ESTj's, and tbh the way it's been put sounds pretty cold and offputting to me.

[redbaron]

The care-taking activity that ESTjs are famous for, is a physical form of care-taking. This should not be thought to be synonymous with actual caring. It's a form of parading oneself, showing one's ability to handle things, get things done. It's also a form of practice. ESTjs like to take on challenges, decrease their personal limitations. Within the delta-rational duality the warmth comes from Fi. We don't have it. We need it.

This has definitely been what I've observed with the two LSE/EII couples I know.

[Smilingeyes]

Anyone can be good and kind and care about others. That is dependent on character, imo, not personality/socionics type.

I am sorry for your disappointments, Christy.


EDIT: I just realized that contextually it could appear I'm round-aboutly slighting Smilingeyes' (and perhaps even UDP's) character. That wasn't my intention.

It's quite ok. That is an area on which I gladly take your criticism. Anyway, you're also correct in what you say about everyone caring. I was just trying to make a point that though socionics says ESTj are caretakers, that quality itself doesn't in any way refer to caring about others, but to physically taking care of others, which is quite a different thing.