hitta, out of pure curiosity, in your view, who on this board is an ILI?
And can you finish writing the descriptions at thesocion? I'd be interested to read about the SLE.
hitta, out of pure curiosity, in your view, who on this board is an ILI?
And can you finish writing the descriptions at thesocion? I'd be interested to read about the SLE.
I don't judge your system. Contrary to some others, I haven't made up my mind what I think about it yet. I'm not totally convinced that there is anything wrong with it. What I question here is not your system but your understanding of the biological phenomenon introversion/extraversion and your claim that niffweed might be an LSE.Originally Posted by hitta
What people here never seem to get is that I don't care which type I am. I would gladly change to another type if it made any sense. But I cannot believe in something that doesn't make sense. Which type am I, do you think? And please give me at least one example of a person -- on this forum or someone famous -- that you think is an ILI.
We have to call the empirical phenomenon we are studying something -- for practical purposes. It makes it easier to refer to it when we talk to each other. And then we start studying it until we find its essential strucure, its essential nature. Not until then do we know exactly what it is we are observing and can put that insight in a definition.
That depends on how strong your arguments are. There some rather irritating anomalies with Socionics as it is, and I am not yet sure whether they are real problems or only seem to be. I don't rule out entirely the possibility that the theory of Socionics is logically inconsistent.
That is of course very interesting if true. And that's why I try to understand your views on the types, but you are not helping me by providing concrete real life examples of the types. I have asked you for a good example of an INTp. Why can't you give me one?
I have seen them being described in that or similar ways, yes. Who in real life is like that? Who is a famous INTp?
I only answer for myself, as I am not sure what views othe people have on those two types. ENTjs and INTps are similar in their thinking and in their attitudes towards for example science, an aspect of the types that I have been especially interested in. They are, however, very different in temperament in the sense that their energy rhythms are different and their working habits are different. They live in different life rhythms but they are both Rationals in Keirsey's sense, and they share a fundamentally empiricist scientific attitude.
I agree. Neither have I. There are, however, some great thinkers that have been ENTjs, for example Karl Popper.
I haven't said that they should be, but some other rather great thinkers have been INTps, for example Arthur Schopenhauer.
phaedrus, you never defined what an introvert was; you simply said that we must 'know.' frankly, I agree with hitta that the I/E and J/P dichotomies are not primarily important and can be easily confused. you're saying niffweed is just an introvert, and he probably is, but it is possible he is just an asshole, antisocial extrovert.
as for his type, I don't know. he acts like he values Te, but I see a lot of Ti in his writing. I can't really see Si in his ego. my best guess is Ne-LII.
I know that INTps are not attempting to be original in the things they do or trying to be imaginative. I have never claimed that they are. But they might be perceived that way sometimes anyway, though they have no need to be, and they don't consciously attempt to be.
You still haven't providided us with an example of a real life INTp. It would be most helpful to clarify things if we could discuss concrete examples of the types instead of focusing on definitions of functions.
Hitta, when you're saying that "introversion" as an aspect of types can not be perceived directly on account of all types being both introvert and extrovert at the same time, you are running into an obstacle that I have pointed out to you the moment you first exposed your views on this forum. Those reverse ID block functions that you presume exist in the ego block of any type (such as Te+ and Ni- in the INTj) are not to be thought of as "the same" as the functions in an extrovert type. They are "regressing" as opposed to "advancing" or whatever you want to call it. If you want to make your interpretation congruent with that of the rest of the community (which I recommend), start considering that an introvert type, while capable of extroverting never extroverts in the same way as an extrovert type does. Notice that the real introverts always sound and look like relative "assholes" or "dictators" when they open their mouths. This is what it is to use the regressing function block. So, yes, introverts can behave extroverted, but when they do, it's not like you can't tell them apart from extroverts with ease.
Well I didn't say that a type could be both introverted or extraverted at the same time. I said that all types are both introverted and extraverted. Take INTjs for examle and -Ti/+Te. -Ti is the introverted variant. It will encompass the thought processes, or the introverted space. It will decide what the person does and everything that they do. Now look at +Te. It is the extraverted variant. It is the style function, or the exerting function. +Te will do -Ti(desystematization or analysis) in a economical/refined way.
Model X Will Save Us!
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No really, hitta, who on this board do you think qualifies as an INTp by your definition?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I'm not really sure, Gammas and Deltas are hard to point out because most of them don't stand out.
Model X Will Save Us!
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what is the object of your game
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
Do you think that you could compile a list of peoples' (suspected) type on the forum? Oh, and could you work on an "Idiot's Guide to Hitta Socionics" or some variety of primer for your system? I want to try and understand your system, but right now it almost seems unapproachable by the "layman" and convoluted by the "expert."
Last edited by Logos; 01-23-2008 at 08:47 AM.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
object #1 is all roads lead to hitta
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
hitta is the measure of all things.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
hitta, if you care enough about your ideas to see how they are genuinely received, then don't every fucking time stop 2 milimeters short of answering some question which is considered key to one or more forum members beginning to understand where you may be coming from. its not generally productive to make accusations and not defend them. it smells of game playing. seriously, this is not suspense channel.
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
I'm confused about what the question is.
Model X Will Save Us!
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The question is:
Could you please give some examples of people you think could be INTps, either from this forum, or famous people? Even fictional characters, if you prefer? And even if you're not totally sure yet?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
lol @ everything to do with this thread.
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