This is the last time I'm doing this

[Slacker]

"Unapproachable" is week Fe. Both types that. And any girl as pretty as she is is going to be desired. That doesn't point toward INTp.

Trying to be nice to people she meets is valuing Fi - wanting to form relationships. Again, that fits both types.

[Gilly]

I wasn't using it as evidence of her being ILI specifically; I was just countering his statement of SLI, for which he used similar rationale. I don't think using that method of typing is a good idea; I was just showing him that he was being ignorant.

Christ, can you people not read today or something?

[Mea]

You know what, two of the most experienced typers on the forum have said ILI, so quit this bullshit, acting like it's SOO EFFING OBVIOUS she's SLI. You are not the end-all-be-all of typing. Not all ILIs are nerdy and overly analytical, which seems to me to be the basis you're rejecting this possibility on.

And, what about "Unapprochable and desired"? You've got to be joking if you don't see this quality in her. And "First and fore most she is kind:" she EVEN SAID she tries to be nice to everyone she interacts with. Thats 2-2. Keep your unmerited overconfidence to yourself.

I agree with Gilly on this point.

[Gilly]

Oh, and if you're buying his shitty typing methods, well, talented laziness = Te IP, and goals and methods? That sounds like Ni+Te if I've ever heard it. So fuck him; he typed her as ILI, too.

[Slacker]

No - the only reason I think she's SLI is because of her posts here in the forum.

And I agree too Mea. I have a good friend who is INTp and isn't at all nerdy or over analytical or anything. She's really cool. I have had a lot of INTp friends in my life and I don't find that to be the case at all.

[aestrivex]

Oh quit your bullshit, niffweed. I never even implied that it was definite

You know what, two of the most experienced typers on the forum have said ILI, so quit this bullshit

you fail yet again.

[Gilly]

Why is it that you think that talking about sensory things makes her sensory? Ezra hardly ever talks about sensory things, and yet is sensory dominant. Tons of the Beta NFs virtually never talk about the abstract theory, but are intuitive nonetheless. Rocky used to talk about nothing but the theory, and even went other message boards like ENTP.org to spread and teach it, and has always been regarded as a sensor. I don't see even a loose correlation between these two things, and the theory itself doesn't support it either. Sorry if this is a little harsh, but seems like an attempt at an over-obvious inference on your part to assume that talking about one's life points to being a sensor. It really just doesn't seem to mean anything.

[Gilly]

you fail yet again.

I was telling him to quit being overconfident, you tool, not to stop typing her as SLI. I'm still discussing the possibility of SLI with others. Learn to read and stop trying to shut me down just because you don't like it when I claim authority.

[Wittmont]

I haven't seen anyone claim that ILI is certain for Jessica, nor that SLI is the final call. But personally I simply do not see how anyone can put ILI above SLI as Jessica herself not only consistently tells us, but shows us, that she prefers the practical SLI approach to the abstract ILI one.

Sorry but I am not going to bow down to appeals to authority if those appeals do not make sense to me. Convince me by proving and I have no problem changing my view. So far most people in this thread have typed Jessica as SLI, the ILI call is in the minority. It is an interesting call especially as it comes from experienced typers, but I do not see what it is based on. I'm arguing what I see and if you want to change my view you cannot just call bullshit but you need to show me why I am wrong. I am happy to learn, that is why I am here.

[aestrivex]

I was telling him to quit being overconfident, you tool, not to stop typing her as SLI. I'm still discussing the possibility of SLI with others. Learn to read and stop trying to shut me down just because you don't like it when I claim authority.

i'm sorry, you were acting authoritatively omnisciently. period. i understand your point, but look at what you wrote.

[Gilly]

I haven't seen anyone claim that ILI is certain for Jessica, nor that SLI is the final call. But personally I simply do not see how anyone can put ILI above SLI as Jessica herself not only consistently tells us, but shows us, that she prefers the practical SLI approach to the abstract ILI one.

Sorry but I am not going to bow down to appeals to authority if those appeals do not make sense to me. Convince me by proving and I have no problem changing my view. So far most people in this thread have typed Jessica as SLI, the ILI call is in the minority. It is an interesting call especially as it comes from experienced typers, but I do not see what it is based on. I'm arguing what I see and if you want to change my view you cannot just call bullshit but you need to show me why I am wrong. I am happy to learn, that is why I am here.

I'm not asking you to bow to authority God, you people are blowing this waaay out of proportion. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't claim so much false confidence when there is obviously good reason to believe otherwise.

I made a partial summary of my case on the last page, although I'll admit I'm still forming it.

"Practical and abstract approaches" are overgeneralized and invalid ways of inferring a type. Your typing seems to be based on jess's own past self-typing and vague impression of her as being S>N. I'd advise you to keep looking.

[Gilly]

i'm sorry, you were acting authoritatively omnisciently. period. i understand your point, but look at what you wrote.

I don't think I ever claimed full confidence in my typing, let alone omniscience, but I guess I can see why you were misled.

[Mea]

I haven't seen anyone claim that ILI is certain for Jessica, nor that SLI is the final call. But personally I simply do not see how anyone can put ILI above SLI as Jessica herself not only consistently tells us, but shows us, that she prefers the practical SLI approach to the abstract ILI one.

Sorry but I am not going to bow down to appeals to authority if those appeals do not make sense to me. Convince me by proving and I have no problem changing my view. So far most people in this thread have typed Jessica as SLI, the ILI call is in the minority. It is an interesting call especially as it comes from experienced typers, but I do not see what it is based on. I'm arguing what I see and if you want to change my view you cannot just call bullshit but you need to show me why I am wrong. I am happy to learn, that is why I am here.

Actually she did. She once considered if she could be intuitive; ILI.

Anyway, I'm not claiming any type for jessica.

[Ezra]

Jess, it seems that xLI is what people think, generally.

Personally, I'd say SLI. I think your attention to your image is natural, and I think you're skilful in it. You've talked in the past about sensations i.e. "all I know is that it's my favourite pasttime" on sex, not actually addressing the question, but describing your feelings about the topic the question is partly concerned with. I think you're good with Se, but I don't think you value it.

Also, as a side point, you actually talk quite scarcely, and don't like it when people try and make you talk at length. In comparison with Winterpark, force my hand and possible LokiVanguard, you'd fit quite nicely in Delta.

That's my two pence worth. I really can't offer much more.

[jessica129]

I don't disagree with ILI, I just thought I identified more with SLI. To be honest, though, I haven't looked at ILI enough to consider it seriously. I can't find readable descriptions. But this is a good thread, at least it got rid of the SLE possibility which was ridiculous. I'm now convinced it's either ILI/SLI.

[Gilly]

Also, as a side point, you actually talk quite scarcely, and don't like it when people try and make you talk at length. In comparison with Winterpark, force my hand and possible LokiVanguard, you'd fit quite nicely in Delta.

Actually I think this is your best point. ILIs seem, IME, to speak either incredibly briefly, or go on rants/speeches. Jessica does seem to resist when asked to talk at length, which doesn't seem characteristic of ILIs to me.

However, on the note of comparison, I think Jessica seems to have a bit more of an edge than the other SLIs here; she doesn't seem to mind confrontation at all. With ignoring Se, I notice SLIs as mostly addressing aggression or conflict in general with a more attitude, whereas Jess seems (and I could be wrong, but I think the bit about the cops points in this direction) like she could be pretty content ripping into someone she thinks is acting stupid.

[Ezra]

What about the wikisocion one? ILIs and SLIs are similar in that they have Fe, Fi, Te and Ti in exactly the same place; it's merely that Se, Si, Ne and Ni are switched around. Look at the ILI and the SLI in conjunction with one another (you can essentially ignore Fe, Fi, Te and Ti, because they won't change anything). See how swapping around Ne, Ni, Se and Si makes a difference.

Plus, quadra values. Either you value Ne/Si or Se/Ni. It should be relatively easy to figure out what you do and don't value (I'd say even easier than to figure out what you are adept in). On top of this, which kind of people do you relate to more? Winterpark and force my hand, or niffweed and Jarno?

[Gilly]

A more precise way to determine your type may be to look at subtypes of the two and see if either of the accepting subs jump out at you; that would definitely be the fastest way to see if you identify readily with one over the other. If you choose one of the creative subs, or can't decide, then perhaps move on to full descriptions.

Meged's descriptions, which are generally regarded as the best here on the forum, are here

[Ezra]

Jess seems (and I could be wrong, but I think the bit about the cops points in this direction) like she could be pretty content ripping into someone she thinks is acting stupid.

I think SLIs could still be comfortable with this. Plus, just as a side point, you say she "seems".

[Gilly]

Ehhh, niffweed and jarno wouldn't be good benchmarks for her to use; they happen to be of the precise "nerdy" variety with which she would be least likely to identify, while Winterpark happens to also be female. I'd stick to the descriptions, but if neither jumps out, well, we'll go from there.

[Gilly]

Of course I said "seems" I don't presume to know exactly what she's like in real life.

[Expat]

I already said some of this in the wiki, but, anyway.

I think it's unlikely that she's something apart from SLI or ILI. I don't think VI is very helpful to differentiate between these types in her case; in either way she's a "Te subtype".

I think that rather from looking at whether she uses Ni or Si (who else writes obviously in a Ni way apart from reyn_til_runa and perhaps snegledmaca?) it's necessary to look at Gamma vs Delta. She has a streak of ruthlessness, even vindictiveness; despite what some misleading MBTI ISTP descriptions say, that's more likely in ILIs than SLIs. She does not go to the casino, so it seems to me, to enjoy a pleasant atmosphere and have fun in a Si-NE way -- she goes there, playing always one and the same game, for the purposes of making money, which she's very happy to boast about when she succeeds. Her approach to relationships, not only in what Gilly mentioned, seems more Ni Victim to me: she kept wondering if it was worth it to continue to date that guy (a fireman? Something like that) because she seemed to already see that it might not go nowhere, etc. That's a typical ILI, Ni Victim view.

[Gilly]

I think SLIs could still be comfortable with this. Plus, just as a side point, you say she "seems".

I think they could be comfortable with it if they were prompted to do so, but I think with Si>Se as a quadra value, and particularly with Se ignoring, they would be more likely to just roll their eyes at conflict or overtly aggressive behavior than respond to it with force. ILIs, on the other hand, have Se as a quadra value, and their dual seeking, which means it's something they not only value, but put a specific effort into being good at.

[xyz]

I think they could be comfortable with it if they were prompted to do so, but I think with Si>Se as a quadra value, and particularly with Se ignoring, they would be more likely to just roll their eyes at conflict or overtly aggressive behavior than respond to it with force. ILIs, on the other hand, have Se as a quadra value, and their dual seeking, which means it's something they not only value, but put a specific effort into being good at.

Honestly the only way I can respond to conflict is usually a big . I mean, usually the reason they're getting all pumped up about it is fucking hilarious to me.

I guess most of you say xLI

[jessica129]

I'm feeling very shy all of a sudden. You guys know too much about me

Plus, quadra values. Either you value Ne/Si or Se/Ni. It should be relatively easy to figure out what you do and don't value (I'd say even easier than to figure out what you are adept in). On top of this, which kind of people do you relate to more? Winterpark and force my hand, or niffweed and Jarno?

I indentify more with the second one. It's not a very big difference, but i'd probobly go with gamma if i had to choose. I identify more with Winterpark and FMH than niffweed or jarno, for whatever that's worth.

[jessica129]

Honestly the only way I can respond to conflict is usually a big . I mean, usually the reason they're getting all pumped up about it is fucking hilarious to me.

I guess most of you say xLI

Hm, I'm the exact opposite. You really don't want to be around me when i'm upset. I definetly DO NOT hold back.

[Wittmont]

I'm not asking you to bow to authority God, you people are blowing this waaay out of proportion. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't claim so much false confidence when there is obviously good reason to believe otherwise.

I made a partial summary of my case on the last page, although I'll admit I'm still forming it.

"Practical and abstract approaches" are overgeneralized and invalid ways of inferring a type. Your typing seems to be based on jess's own past self-typing and vague impression of her as being S>N. I'd advise you to keep looking.

I'm always looking

I don't consider any typing as final. They are all open to examination upon further proof. In the absence of final proof I go with what makes most sense to me. I have a very fluid approach and try to keep my options open; and as my sig says, if your (my) theory doesn't go with what reality tells you, it is time to change your (my) mind. In general I dislike dogmatic approaches, the "this must be so because the all ruling dogma says so" view.

[xyz]

Hm, I'm the exact opposite. You really don't want to be around me when i'm upset. I definetly DO NOT hold back.

Wait wait, I said i have that attitude when I don't care, which is usually. I never said I had that attitude when I am upset.

When i'm upset I'm usually pretty close to hurting you.

[Ezra]

Right, Jess, essentially you identify more with the two SLIs I mentioned than you do with the two ILIs I mentioned. However, you identify more with Se/Ni quadra values as opposed to Ne/Si.

Maybe this approach is not the best one.

[jessica129]

You said conflict...usually whenever i'm in any sort of conflict, I get pretty aggressive.

[Expat]

Right, Jess, essentially you identify more with the two SLIs I mentioned than you do with the two ILIs I mentioned. However, you identify more with Se/Ni quadra values as opposed to Ne/Si.

Maybe this approach is not the best one.

I think identifying with people online -- especially as she said she couldn't say much about anyone here - is not a good approach at all.

[xyz]

You said conflict...usually whenever i'm in any sort of conflict, I get pretty aggressive.

I guess i would be too if I cared half the time. Ah well. Did you eat that pizza?

[Ezra]

Well, Expat, she did say she identifies best with Gamma values. So perhaps she is an ILI.

[Wittmont]

I already said some of this in the wiki, but, anyway.

I think it's unlikely that she's something apart from SLI or ILI. I don't think VI is very helpful to differentiate between these types in her case; in either way she's a "Te subtype".

I think that rather from looking at whether she uses Ni or Si (who else writes obviously in a Ni way apart from reyn_til_runa and perhaps snegledmaca?) it's necessary to look at Gamma vs Delta. She has a streak of ruthlessness, even vindictiveness; despite what some misleading MBTI ISTP descriptions say, that's more likely in ILIs than SLIs. She does not go to the casino, so it seems to me, to enjoy a pleasant atmosphere and have fun in a Si-NE way -- she goes there, playing always one and the same game, for the purposes of making money, which she's very happy to boast about when she succeeds. Her approach to relationships, not only in what Gilly mentioned, seems more Ni Victim to me: she kept wondering if it was worth it to continue to date that guy (a fireman? Something like that) because she seemed to already see that it might not go nowhere, etc. That's a typical ILI, Ni Victim view.

Jess said something a while back in the another thread about sex in Anything goes, that made me post that I thought she had a Careful erotic type I thought that was another point towards her being ISTp. I wasn't sure it her attitude was Careful or Victim so I looked them up and Careful made more sense to me than than Victim (being a Victim myself heh). I didn't think her attitude matched what I would do.

[Gilly]

I don't think you ever explained why it was you thought she sounded Careful. Everything I've heard from her has sounded vicitm.

[jessica129]

I guess i would be too if I cared half the time. Ah well. Did you eat that pizza?

I'm starting to try to adopt a 'meh' attitude towards life. It's better than letting everything get to you.

No pizza, no. They wouldn't deliver. Settled on scrambled eggs and brocolli, hehe.

[xyz]

Yeah man it'll save your mental and physical health. The eggs, brocolli, and meh

[Gilly]

Right, Jess, essentially you identify more with the two SLIs I mentioned than you do with the two ILIs I mentioned. However, you identify more with Se/Ni quadra values as opposed to Ne/Si.

Maybe this approach is not the best one.

Like I said, Jarno and niff are both stereotypical nerdy-type, notably Male ILIs; I wouldn't expect her to identify with them even if she were the same subtype.

Jess, have you had a look at the subtype descriptions yet?

@Wittmont: You seemed pretty damn sure a minute ago:

Well it is just effing obvious to me.

---

So, Stop this ILI nonsense right away pls

That's not what I call taking a "fluid approach."

[Wittmont]

She sounded so very passive in a way, letting her partner move her about at will. And she didn't like her partner to be too rough:

"The "Careful" woman. Does not accept from the man strong, but rough lask. The power erotic game deprived to a prelude oppresses its sexuality, therefore men-supermen disappoint her. The behaviour compatible with it of the man should be infantile, i.e. timid, ?-attracting. Such woman loves caress which are expressed in gentle, childly weak touches to erogenous zones."

She also said she like INFp (Victim's) in bed, and personally (INFp) it is important to me my partner is ok/comfortable with what I do, and I am definitely not very rough (usually). Without going into details I can see why she'd like an INFp partner if she is a Careful

[Wittmont]

@Wittmont: You seemed pretty damn sure a minute ago:

That's not what I call taking a "fluid approach."

Lol yes but you were ramming ILI down my throat without giving any reasons for it So I argued my position to see if you would come up with a counterargument