Description of my ILE-ENTp brother

[Expat]

Because I was bored, and could not see the point of a "What's my Type".

Extremely picky with food, probably more so than anyone else I've ever known. Very easily overachiever when studying, from primary school to university. Usually became a sort of "minor legend" with math teachers. No interest in sports whatsoever, either to watch or to participate, despite being naturally tall and fairly strong.

He wanted to study astronomy, our mother "forbade" him from doing it, he went for engineering, got bored, moved to then-nascent computer science. Rode the wave of the PC boom of the 80s, getting lots of temporary and permanent job offers, easily, while still in college. Gradually "forgot" university and just finished his degree 10 years later. Thought "he had made it" when he was 24 and so married his college SEI gf. However, the PC boom lost steam - or, rather, competition became fierce - and he lost his job in around 1993. Since then, he makes a good living - without really making lots of money - as an independent IT contractor, doing all kinds of things. The instability doesn't seem to bother him; the SEI wife is the one with a steady job.

Has a huge collection of books - apart from technical ones, they are all in one of these categories: Science fiction (classics, like Heinlein, Asimov, etc); Tolkien and similar; games (cards, role-playing games, etc), pets, and photography. He has practically no books about anything else.

He has a "pack" of friends since high school with whom he keeps in touch; at one point in his life, he and his friends met once a week to play games, changing them: from bridge to D&D to whatever.

He was the only member of the family who enjoyed going fishing with our SEI father; on the other hand, I'd go with our father on rollercoasters, which my brother hated. He and my father could spend the whole day doing nothing but fishing.

My brother has 4 cats in his flat, and two of them he "rescued" as small kittens alone in the street. He's devoted to them.

He has no interest in traveling to different places, or in learning languages apart from the necessary professionally. He does like to travel, but then usually to places he already knows and likes. He's as picky with travel as he is with food.

He has no interest in investing money. He and his wife work hard, earn good money, and spend it. They don't throw it away and do worry about having their own house, etc. But once that is accomplished, they pretty much spend all their available income. My brother is a gadget freak: he just has to have whatever the latest version of a cellphone, laptop, camera, etc. Usually he's among the first people to buy whatever new electronic thing comes into the market.

He does things like buying the whole DVD collection of Buffy the Vampire Slayer but leaving it off his "official" collection, so visitors won't know he bought it.

That's it for now.

[bibliophile8]

Has a huge collection of books - apart from technical ones, they are all in one of these categories: Science fiction (classics, like Heinlein, Asimov, etc); Tolkien and similar; games (cards, role-playing games, etc), pets, and photography. He has practically no books about anything else.

Why is photography often associated with LII and ILE? I've seen it mentioned in other places before as well. I know you can relate Ti to the composition and Ne to how you can easily take one picture about 5 billion ways. And there's technology involved. It would seem that there is an Si and Fe element as well for artistic and people's atmosphere. But I suppose it could all depend on the type of picture.

Has anyone else noticed this or come up with an explanation? It's probably just a bad stereotype.

[implied]

he sounds a lot like my ENTp brother, only difference being that my brother actually liked sports (to some degree) in high school. he was okay at basketball, from what i recall. i never understood the issues with travel, though.

[Blaze]

expat your brother almost sounds stereotypically ILE. point of curiousity, isn't the family you grew up with mostly all alpha? it seems like growing up around your quadra members almost potentiates one's type.

you on the other hand are LIE bet that was a pain in the ass for ya.

[Suomea]

<------ Likes sports.

[Logos]

I don't want to steal his thunder, but he did say in another thread that being the sole member of a Quadra in a family of another (especially the contrary quadra) can make you feel inadequate. I have heard a number of Gamma quadra people share their experiences with Alpha families (weird that it is so prevalent), but I would like to hear how Alphas experience being the sole Alpha in a family of Gammas or another quadra.

ETA: Actually that would be interesting for perhaps another thread - experiences of being the sole Alpha amongst a group composed of entirely another quadra. What problems or benefits does an Alphan (?) have amongst other Quadras.

[Expat]

Why is photography often associated with LII and ILE? I've seen it mentioned in other places before as well. I know you can relate Ti to the composition and Ne to how you can easily take one picture about 5 billion ways. And there's technology involved. It would seem that there is an Si and Fe element as well for artistic and people's atmosphere. But I suppose it could all depend on the type of picture.

Has anyone else noticed this or come up with an explanation? It's probably just a bad stereotype.

I disagree. I see it as a common feature of Si-Ne quadra types. The people here who seem to take photography most seriously at an artistic level are Minde, cracka, and Bionicgoat, all Si-Ne.There are probably other examples.

expat your brother almost sounds stereotypically ILE. point of curiousity, isn't the family you grew up with mostly all alpha? it seems like growing up around your quadra members almost potentiates one's type.

you on the other hand are LIE bet that was a pain in the ass for ya.

I've written about it elsewhere (or maybe it got deleted by cogsci at the time). My immediate family was all Alpha (SEI father, ESE mother, ILE brother). Yeah it was a pain in the ass. Basically it makes you feel defective, or an asshole, when you do what comes most naturally and especially when trying to be helpful: that is, using in my case. Or not wanting to participate when everyone else would go for times out. Or seeing the use of "feel-good" + as pointless and even annoying. Etc etc. It sounds textbook-like but that was how it was. One of the most annoying things was the implication that not enjoying times "wasn't normal" or "you just want to be different". I heard that last one about six billion times before I was 8.

[Expat]

i never understood the issues with travel, though.

It's a bit odd - and that's perhaps the clearest sign of irrationality. It goes like this. My brother will usually say "no" to traveling to a new place. Then he will go due to outside pressure - because of the family, his wife, friends, whatever. Then he will go there and like it. Then he will be willing to go there again - but not to new and different places.

For instance, he had shown no interest whatsoever in going to Italy. Then his wife had to live there for 6 months for work. Then he went there to visit her. After that, he's keen to go there again. And so, slowly, he accumulates "acceptable" places to go to. But I daresay that if he had never been "forced" to go anywhere, he wouldn't travel at all.

It's the same thing with food. The most difficult thing - or nearly impossible - is to get him to try new dishes. Since his tastes in food aren't complicated, expensive or even unhealthy - they're just very limited - our parents soon "gave up on the fight" to try him to increase his menu.

The two things are related and seem to suggest low , but I can't explain it -- or, rather, his is visible only in connection to .

Somehow he's very conservative as to which kind of he can "trust" -- maybe the Delta, specifically IEE, inclination to travel and see the world is more + with . But I'm not sure why that should be so.

[FDG]

Construct creating to its highest, Expat, that's what it sounds like...

[implied]

It's a bit odd - and that's perhaps the clearest sign of irrationality. It goes like this. My brother will usually say "no" to traveling to a new place. Then he will go due to outside pressure - because of the family, his wife, friends, whatever. Then he will go there and like it. Then he will be willing to go there again - but not to new and different places.

my brother typically gets almost visibly uncomfortable when i talk about travel or mention how cool x place was. or any cultural interests really. it's one of those odd things that i just can't really speak to him about. almost like he's scared?

For instance, he had shown no interest whatsoever in going to Italy. Then his wife had to live there for 6 months for work. Then he went there to visit her. After that, he's keen to go there again. And so, slowly, he accumulates "acceptable" places to go to. But I daresay that if he had never been "forced" to go anywhere, he wouldn't travel at all.

same with my brother.

It's the same thing with food. The most difficult thing - or nearly impossible - is to get him to try new dishes. Since his tastes in food aren't complicated, expensive or even unhealthy - they're just very limited - our parents soon "gave up on the fight" to try him to increase his menu.

my brother's palate has expanded a bit since he married (and i do think his wife is either an extremely lazy INFp or an ISFp.) she does show interest in new, weird foods. he seems to trust her taste.

Somehow he's very conservative as to which kind of he can "trust" -- maybe the Delta, specifically IEE, inclination to travel and see the world is more + with . But I'm not sure why that should be so.

well, you do read a bit that deltas are fond of travel.


i actually relate slightly with some of his issues, but my brother's issues with these things are more pronounced than my own, and harder for me to understand. i mean, i do understand why someone wouldn't want to eat onions because they're "disgusting" or whatever. he has a lot of foods like this. the thing i wonder about is -- are INTps any better about this sort of thing? from what you read, at the least, they seem pretty unadventurous as well.

[Expat]

my brother typically gets almost visibly uncomfortable when i talk about travel or mention how cool x place was. or any cultural interests really. it's one of those odd things that i just can't really speak to him about. almost like he's scared?

It could be Fi and Fe related, but I'm not sure how and why.

well, you do read a bit that deltas are fond of travel.

One of the Delta themes is freedom of movement for everyone to see new places, it could be seen as part of their "inclusive Aristocracy". Which would mean is related perhaps to + ? The readiness to collect new information related to sensory perceptions?

are INTps any better about this sort of thing? from what you read, at the least, they seem pretty unadventurous as well.

Yeah, not sure.

[Expat]

Some more information --

Neither my brother nor myself were particularly active in the dating scene during high school; we were both more or less stereotypical "NT nerds" in that area. And neither of us were comfortable discussing that side of our lives with our parents; I'm not sure of the reasons in his case; in mine was that our father would on occasion make remarks like "how come you haven't got a girlfriend yet?" that made me cut him off totally from that subject, forever. I never even discussed that kind of matter with him.

The first girl my brother introduced home as "this is my girlfriend" was the SEI he ended up marrying; they met at university. For some bizarre reason our father disliked her at first; he used to say "university is no place to meet girls". That made even our ESE mother say to him, "are you nuts? Where else then?" We never understood what his reasoning was in that area.

They've been married for many years and never had any kind of fight that I know of. She's a devout Catholic who goes to mass every Sunday and likes to go on theology seminars; he's an atheist. But he just stays home when she goes to the mass and that's it. Not a source of trouble at all.

She has no problem with his pickiness in food and fondness for cats. They like the same kind of movies and the like. They don't read the same kind of books but that's a non-issue.

I'm trying hard to find any issue at all between them -- I can't think of any.

My brother's long-term "pack of friends", all men, are one SLI, one LSE, one LII, two other ILEs, and one SLE. I got along with the LSE best, then the SLI, then the LII.

[Expat]

Construct creating to its highest, Expat, that's what it sounds like...

According to some definitions, yes. However, I wonder whether most types who are construct-creating would really show those characteristics (even if not as extreme as that).

[Minde]

I'm not sure if it's the same thing, wanting to see the world and not being comfortable experiencing something new on one's own or needing to be dragged to it. I, for one, am pretty habit-bound relative to most people I know, yet at the same time I'd love to go see new things. Or, at least, I like the idea of seeing new things.

[mikemex]

ETA: Actually that would be interesting for perhaps another thread - experiences of being the sole Alpha amongst a group composed of entirely another quadra. What problems or benefits does an Alphan (?) have amongst other Quadras.

Maybe not what you're looking for, but in my family there are mostly alphas (ESFj, ENTp, INTj) with me (ENFp) and my mom (ENFj) being the only members of other quadras. I get along better with the rest of the family than what my mom does.

Also, notice the prevalence of intuition inside the family.

[Suomea]

It's a bit odd - and that's perhaps the clearest sign of irrationality. It goes like this. My brother will usually say "no" to traveling to a new place. Then he will go due to outside pressure - because of the family, his wife, friends, whatever. Then he will go there and like it. Then he will be willing to go there again - but not to new and different places.

For instance, he had shown no interest whatsoever in going to Italy. Then his wife had to live there for 6 months for work. Then he went there to visit her. After that, he's keen to go there again. And so, slowly, he accumulates "acceptable" places to go to. But I daresay that if he had never been "forced" to go anywhere, he wouldn't travel at all.

It's the same thing with food. The most difficult thing - or nearly impossible - is to get him to try new dishes. Since his tastes in food aren't complicated, expensive or even unhealthy - they're just very limited - our parents soon "gave up on the fight" to try him to increase his menu.

The two things are related and seem to suggest low , but I can't explain it -- or, rather, his is visible only in connection to .

Somehow he's very conservative as to which kind of he can "trust" -- maybe the Delta, specifically IEE, inclination to travel and see the world is more + with . But I'm not sure why that should be so.

I'm kinda like this. I don't mind going anywhere new as long as I'm with people I enjoy and they want to go there. I like to sit and soak up an environment when I get there, and if it's a positive one I'll let loose some and get pretty outgoing. I'm the one who normally riles up the troops and gets everyone going back there again another time..... If I'm in an uncomfortable mood or worrying about other things in my life I'll often say no to a lot of things with the intention of saying maybe yes at a later date if provided reasonable expectations and reincouragement for it. It's kinda my default response to the unknown.... As long as I have some knowledge of what I'm getting myself into I'm really willing to do anything though.

[Mea]

Sounds a LOT like my ILE bf. Only difference is my bf used to enjoy sports. He's very lazy about it nowadays, and would only go to the basketball court if he happens to pass by it and his brother is there.

Similarly, he's VERY picky about food and where he's traveling to. He's really smart but did not complete his education. He was a delinquent then, and did not bother to attend classes, rebelling against the school and simply skipping exams/tests. His parents stopped giving allowance because of this (he was 15 then), and he worked to support himself and his then girlfriend.

[Expat]

More elaboration on what I meant with "picky with food".

Many people have problems with particular kinds of food; sometimes I think it may be chemical-related. Some people can't stand seafood; others, even something as trivial as olives. Etc.

My brother's criteria for eating something or not are totally strange. For instance:

- he eats sausages of most kinds, and hot dogs. He loves steaks. Yet he refuses to eat hamburgers.
- he eats sandwiches of bread and cheese. He also likes tomato salad. Yet he refuses to eat pizzas.
- he eats pasta of some kinds, like spaghetti. Yet he refuses to eat lasagna.

And so on and so forth.

[Logos]

And? That behavior actually seems quite natural from what I have observed in all people regardless of type. So that does not seem "totally strange" at all.

[Expat]

And? That behavior actually seems quite natural from what I have observed in all people regardless of type. So that does not seem "totally strange" at all.

you have confirmed the total strangeness of .

[hellothere]

- he eats sausages of most kinds, and hot dogs. He loves steaks. Yet he refuses to eat hamburgers.
- he eats sandwiches of bread and cheese. He also likes tomato salad. Yet he refuses to eat pizzas.
- he eats pasta of some kinds, like spaghetti. Yet he refuses to eat lasagna.

Actually I think this is kind of strange as well... not "totally" strange... but still strange, especially the last one.

[Logos]

you have confirmed the total strangeness of .

Why? I said that I have observed this behavior regardless of type. I've even observed ENTjs and ENFjs engage in this sort peculiarity.

[Jonathan]

I disagree. I see it as a common feature of Si-Ne quadra types. The people here who seem to take photography most seriously at an artistic level are Minde, cracka, and Bionicgoat, all Si-Ne.There are probably other examples.

I'm actually quite a bit into photography myself. The folks who went to NYC will probably remember how even in the middle of the conversation, if I saw something that looked a certain way, I took a picture. (I wouldn't normally do this in the middle of a conversation but I was also in sightseeing mode.)

I'm not sure that it's type related, although I imagine different types may focus on different things in the pictures they take.

It's interesting that your portrait of your brother reminds me of a good friend of mine who's also very much into photography and likes food to be a certain way (I tend to see him as IEE, though ILE is possible).

[Ms. Kensington]

I read somewhere that has to do with spatial relations.

I associate Si with personal taste > trend. So to me it is not strange if a person eats sausages but not hot dogs, because the taste is totally different. Personal taste is individual.

I don't understand why some Ne types would not like travel though.. unless you mean an aversion or disinterest in specific places. I thought that was one of your indications of an Ne type, expat, in one of your tests asking what one would do if money was no object (wanting to travel everywhere).

[Expat]

I thought that was one of your indications of an Ne type, expat, in one of your tests asking what one would do if money was no object (wanting to travel everywhere).

And you thought right; perhaps I should not have attributed that to as such.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Expat]

That's weird, because my ENTp brother would jump at the change to travel. And he enjoys trying new foods. It's like a challenge to him.

Well, I meant that as a description of an individual whom I know very well and whom I have typed as ENTp. It's not necessarily a description of how all ENTps are like. So perhaps the travel and food thing, although probably related to at some level, will not manifest itself equally in all ENTps.

[Jonathan]

For some reason every time you post I assume you're an INFj. That idea is rather stuck in my head.

That's an idea that has floated on the forum from time to time. I suppose the case for that is that I try to get along well with people and to avoid saying things I would regret later, plus I come up with lots of different experimental ideas, so people think Fi + Ne.

That would imply, though, something wrong with Rick's typing methods, because when we met in person he saw lots of evidence for acc-Ni and ILI in particular.

It would also be interesting for to be my role function, given that a number of people have thought they saw in a number of my posts, or at least used to.

As an acc-Fi person yourself, what do you think are the characteristics of acc-Fi people? I tend to think they possibly include a certain self-discipline (based on conscientiousness), an immediate awareness in situations of the moral ramifications in regard to dealing with other people (e.g., don't keep people waiting, don't keep your laundry in the machine so other people can't use it, notice when someone needs help) that other people don't always notice, an awareness of relationships and strong sense of connection with family and friends, and a tendency to be highly bothered by other people who seem insensitive to or unaware of how they effect other people or whether they're doing the ethically right thing.

Are these accurate...or how would you characterize acc-Fi in yourself? And what from my posts indicates to you acc-Fi as opposed to HA-Fi?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Logos]

Well, I meant that as a description of an individual whom I know very well and whom I have typed as ENTp. It's not necessarily a description of how all ENTps are like. So perhaps the travel and food thing, although probably related to at some level, will not manifest itself equally in all ENTps.

Yes, I do not think it is a stretch to say that in some individuals will make them picky about what they eat and in others, it makes them adventurous. The important thing is that they are either protecting or developing their sense of the external dynamics of fields.