Stories, observations, and experiences with LIEs-ENTjs

[redbaron]

Just because she gets on okay with an IEI doesn't rule out LSE. I actually can get on with my conflictor better, sometimes, than with my supervisee.

But LIE is still a possibility. Dominant Te in any case.

yes, you're right. And as I said, I don't know that they get along FAMOUSLY, just that she seems fond of him (the IEI) and they seem to work well together. They have to work fairly closely but they've only been working together for 10 months now. She has another close friend who I'm pretty sure is ESI (which doesn't tell me anything since ESIs would get along well with LSEs or LIEs). I do know that she and my ESE husband sometimes butt heads. They're both on a board together and he feels like she is too aggressive and too outspoken, intimidating some of the others on the board and causing the more introverted members to hold their tongues. He doesn't like that about her even though they do think alike on some issues.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Sounds like an LSE yeah. Actually sounds a bit like my parents.

The only reason why she sees the big picture is she's lucky enough to marry her dual, most likely that is the reason. Because LSEs actually are very detail-focused, that's how they achieve their goals. NFs are more dream-like mysterious, and laidback/don't exert much effort just because we're so aware of how we're all dust in the end anyways.

[Ezra]

I think LIE makes enough sense. I'd like more detail though.

lol @ the thread title

[Ritella]

Just from the part about running her (and other peoples') kids around, I'd say LSE > LIE. I think that kind of thing would annoy an LIE and he'd be likely to space out and forget the kids somewhere.

[redbaron]

Just from the part about running her (and other peoples') kids around, I'd say LSE > LIE. I think that kind of thing would annoy an LIE and he'd be likely to space out and forget the kids somewhere.

Well I don't know that she's not annoyed by it. She sometimes does seem annoyed by all the stuff she has to do for the kids, but she does it anyway at a manic pace. I think she'd like more adult time. She's much better with adults. She loves babies but once they're out of that cute cuddly baby stage, she prefers much older children or adults that she can reason with. I think she has very little patience for kids in general.

[redbaron]

maybe I could also add that she doesn't pay any attention to how she dresses. She did paint her kitchen cabinets really bright colors once just for fun. She was really proud of that. But the rest of the house isn't very decorated or thought out. For example, the scale of the furniture is way off (couch and chairs way too large for the space) but she doesn't care.

[redbaron]

Well, that new information does change things a bit.

I guess so I don't know why I didn't think to add that the first time.

[Ezra]

maybe I could also add that she doesn't pay any attention to how she dresses. She did paint her kitchen cabinets really bright colors once just for fun. She was really proud of that. But the rest of the house isn't very decorated or thought out. For example, the scale of the furniture is way off (couch and chairs way too large for the space) but she doesn't care.

I knew she was fuckin' LIE. I AM GOD.

[redbaron]

I knew she was fuckin' LIE. I AM GOD.

[Tom]

Funny, I would have guessed LSE due to her frantic lifestyle; I suppose my thought is to simply hire an interior designer... Or an ISFj, for that matter.

[redbaron]

Funny, I would have guessed LSE due to her frantic lifestyle; I suppose my thought is to simply hire an interior designer... Or an ISFj, for that matter.

I wonder if it was just that her lifestyle appears frantic to ME. I'm very laid back and try to say no to as many extra responsibilities as possible so that I don't make myself crazy. Anyone who's not like that can seen ultra busy to me.

[DirectorAbbie]

I'd say she sounds more ESTj to me.

Hope not. I wouldn't want to end up that way. But when I work, that's what I look like.

Yesterday afternoon, I was in one of my moods: to clean. I got my INTj brother to get stuff out from under my dresser and move it so I could get stuff from behind it. He left, and my ISFp brother came in for some freebies. (I always give away miscelaneous items when I clean.) I put him to work picking up the paper stars and 'coins' (colored paper that I put through a hole punch) and putting them in their respective bowls. My ESTp brother asked through the door what we were doing. I said we were listening to the news. (The radio was on.) He wanted to listen, so I let him in and put him to work tearing up legos and straightening papers. He got tired of and left. After my ISFp brother finished stacking the stencils and magazine papers, I told him to go. I finished most of what was left, and my INTj brother wandered back in. So I had him get the vaccume cleaners and hold things while I vaccumed under them. My room (not counting the closet) was perfectly clean in 6 hours, with a quick break for dinner.

[Blaze]

so i spent the weekend with my cousin, who's clearly an LIE. we shared a room at a hotel and got along pretty well. anyway, here's what i noticed about her:

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

although at times i felt a little jealous of how she was able to command attention, i only felt that way momentarily. i didn't feel a constantly growing sense of competition like i would with another static. more often, i felt admiration for how she could get the stuff above going. i kind of followed in her wake, influencing things here and there. we talked about work, about family, about having babies, about books, about marriage.
we got along well for almost four days.

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think. like the LIE's here (i'm thinking of Expat and Azeroffs) i like to listen to what she (and they) have to say, since they say it so clearly. i admire their leadership - it seems to come so effortlessly to them. overall, i found her sort of refreshing, since i don't have any friends like that.

so, do you think i got her type right? also, post your experiences with LIE's. and, comment about quasi relations if you are ILE.

[Jonathan]

so i spent the weekend with my cousin, who's clearly an LIE. we shared a room at a hotel and got along pretty well. anyway, here's what i noticed about her:

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

although at times i felt a little jealous of how she was able to command attention, i only felt that way momentarily. i didn't feel a constantly growing sense of competition like i would with another static. more often, i felt admiration for how she could get the stuff above going. i kind of followed in her wake, influencing things here and there. we talked about work, about family, about having babies, about books, about marriage.
we got along well for almost four days.

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think. like the LIE's here (i'm thinking of Expat and Azeroffs) i like to listen to what she (and they) have to say, since they say it so clearly. i admire their leadership - it seems to come so effortlessly to them. overall, i found her sort of refreshing, since i don't have any friends like that.

so, do you think i got her type right? also, post your experiences with LIE's. and, comment about quasi relations if you are ILE.

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

[Azeroffs]

I don't think I've ever disliked an ILE. My mom is ILE, and we get along great. I've never been really close to an ILE though. I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

[Beautiful sky]

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

They use the Te (objective information) gathered from from all kinds of sources, books, magazines, etc to use Ni and make predictions about where things are headed to get an idea of where to invest. They can take many ideas and reduce them to make them efficiently workable.

@ Blaze,

yes, honey, you got her type dead on right. I have an LIE friend (not Azeroff ) who I have been friends with for a while now and he is exactly as you described, a pleasant and open extravert who loves to do things and is very active and gregarious.

[FDG]

I generally get along well with most ILEs I know. Actually, I might go as far as saying that we can cooperate quite well whenever we're executing a task toghether (static + dynamic?). I've only had some disagreements with those that think of themselves as being intellectually superior as a standard attitude, but, it was mostly a battle of egos...(so I can't say it was completely their fault). My observations tell me that the worst quasi-identities are between negativist and extraverted types (so, ENFj-ENFp and ESTj-ESTp).

I wouldn't describe myself as "not theorethical", though. It's mostly a mask, given that generally almost no-one is interested in abstract theories, thus I've "learnt" not to share them automatically. Plus, people are scared by someone which reads books on theorethical physics and/or psychology etc. etc., and I don't want to scare anyone.

[Blaze]

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

actually yes i would agree somewhat about the theoretical part. LIE's want to be able to use and apply theories. LSE's, i notice, can be somewhat fascinated by theories, but not as interested in applying them. and LIE is open to opposing ideas: my cousin kept saying how she noticed that my thinking is out of the box and how useful this is in a business venture.

i agree that ILE and LIE would have different ideas on how to start and what to do. when i gave up trying to lead and just followed her it went a lot more easy. sometimes we ILE's get tied to our ideas and want to push them forward, but people aren't always ready for them. if we are willing to follow the lead of an LIE, i think we could find that they would support our ideas at the right time and given the right circumstances. anyway, it felt easier to me to just allow her to lead rather than trying to take it myself. and, more natural.

I don't think I've ever disliked an ILE. My mom is ILE, and we get along great. I've never been really close to an ILE though. I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

agree with this too. it's not a close relation. maybe that's why it's refreshing and crisp. i found it an easy social relation,though. once i worked for an LIE and i found it easy to do so.

I wouldn't describe myself as "not theorethical", though. It's mostly a mask, given that generally almost no-one is interested in abstract theories, thus I've "learnt" not to share them automatically. Plus, people are scared by someone which reads books on theorethical physics and/or psychology etc. etc., and I don't want to scare anyone.

yes....this is where LIE has their finger on the group pulse more than ILE. people are afraid of that. why?

[Jonathan]

They use the Te (objective information) gathered from from all kinds of sources, books, magazines

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

[Suz]

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

That's sort of how my Te-HA works actually...

[FDG]

yes....this is where LIE has their finger on the group pulse more than ILE. people are afraid of that. why?

because...they're stupid

[Nowisthetime]

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think.

Have you had longer relationships with your quasi? To me it sounded that you're describing qualities about the LIE that you like but not the type relationship itself.

[Azeroffs]

Actually, I forgot about my highschool best friend. I typed him as LII before, but I'm almost sure he's ILE. We had an interesting relationship in that we had a lot of the same interests, but we were always a bit distant. He was kind of a dick, and I didn't have much of a problem with it, but it got on my nerves over the years. The weird thing was that other people really thought he was a dick, and I'd defend him because I didn't think it was as bad as other people made it out to be. In my eyes it was just a subtle insensitivity. Not enough to confront him on, but enough to make me not want to be around him after a while.

edit:
What pissed me off most was when it was me him and one of our other friends (IEI and EIE). When it was 3 of us or all 4 of us, they would make some insulting remark, and then I'd start to argue with them usually saying that what they were saying wasn't even true, but then he (ILE) would just make some witty remark that didn't even address the issue and they'd all just laugh... God that was infuriating.

[Blaze]

Have you had longer relationships with your quasi? To me it sounded that you're describing qualities about the LIE that you like but not the type relationship itself.

the relation seemed non competitive and non close, sort of pleasantly superficial.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

OK NOW.
YOU .SERIOUSLY. NEED.A HUG.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

They are reading facts from all kinds of sources, of course mostly what they are interested in; better yet, they are observing processes one with more Ni slent (with the goal of utilizing ideas for investments, the other with Si, pleasantness of sensations derived from objects). Te is a function, according to Carl Jung, of being oriented towards the objective world, thus being interested in things that are going on outside of themselves, gathering information/facts is just one way to do that, being that that's what they are programed to do. They also focus so much on work and working that given extremes they can become tyranical and really not care about emotions of others, as their extreme ego emphasis on Te (work and production/efficiency) supresses Fi (the care and feelings of other individuals).

Here's a good source:

http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

Why? How do you define Te?

[Azeroffs]

OK NOW.
YOU .SERIOUSLY. NEED.A HUG.

lol, thanks, but it's really not a big deal. I talk to my mom on the phone every few weeks, and we're closer than ever. Even when I was young and we rarely saw each other I didn't think of it as an issue. Sometimes I wonder if I had a terrible childhood and didn't even realize.

[Exodus]

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

If she's good at getting people's attention, maybe she's an leading type? Most of this just points to extroversion and strong .