Struggle, live is hard

[Jonathan]

Apart from whether the passage suggests hardship and difficulty, why would mentioning something about hardship and difficulty mean one was expressing
"-"...i.e., blocked with ?

Are you saying that that comes with some sort of suggestion of struggle and drama is necessarily Alpha ?
And in comparison, the comes with the suggestion of a comfortable, relaxing, soothing, home-like atmosphere is Beta ? ...because it's "+"?

Tcaud brought up something in another thread that made me think about a question I've had for awhile. He suggested that Fe that expresses hardship, difficulty, struggle, etc., is characteristic of Alpha Fe ("-Fe"), and that, furthermore, it may suggest non-valued Se (for example, 7th function Se). In a much earlier thread , Rick had suggested that Fe that comes with a feeling of a sense of struggle is probably Fe mixed with Se (i.e., Beta-Fe, or indicative of possible EIE)

Earlier, I had agreed with the view that SEIs may sometimes play that "life is hard" role, portraying everything as a struggle, a battle against fate. Later, I accepted Rick's logic that emphasis on struggle, battle, etc., more likely Se in one's quadra values. But now I can see it both ways.

Would an expression of how hard life is and how hard we must struggle be a characteristic role of SEI? Or more characterstic of ESI, EII, EIE, ILI, or other types?

[aestrivex]

it sounds like Se.

[FDG]

I definitely don't relate.

[leckysupport]

it sounds like Se.

Unless they mean it in some emotional context.

Lately I've been thinking about how types can talk quite a lot about strength, which I think they mean emotional strength as in not breaking down emotionally.

Although strength would be lugged with normally it seems to make more sense for it to be put with in this context.

I'm guessing the same thing is happening here with hardship, maybe sees hardship as the emotional toll you have to get through. Edit: maybe a bit of in there too you can't go through hardship without going through life.

[Gilly]

It's Beta. Overcoming adversity is their biggest theme, IME.

[Jonathan]

It's Beta. Overcoming adversity is their biggest theme, IME.

Yeah, it makes sense. Beta would be the most logical choice for the overcoming adversity theme. I often think motivational speakers are typically EIE, for example.

But are there times when SEIs may express a certain kind of "overcoming adversity" theme of their own? Perhaps in dealing with their Te PoLR? And if so, what would that look like?

[Gilly]

Yeah, it makes sense. Beta would be the most logical choice for the overcoming adversity theme. I often think motivational speakers are typically EIE, for example.

But are there times when SEIs may express a certain kind of "overcoming adversity" theme of their own? Perhaps in dealing with their Te PoLR? And if so, what would that look like?

Well DUH, everyone has adversity and they deal with it. But Se/Ni and Fe/Ti together combine for the emotional experience of overcoming adversity despite the odds and potential costs.

[Expat]

But are there times when SEIs may express a certain kind of "overcoming adversity" theme of their own? Perhaps in dealing with their Te PoLR? And if so, what would that look like?

The answer to the question "are there times when type bla-bla may do bla-bla" will always be "yes".

SEIs will "overcome adversity", using Se, a function they are also strong in, in the pursuit of their goals, whatever they may be, but one suspects ultimately related to Si and Fe.

[Jonathan]

The answer to the question "are there times when type bla-bla may do bla-bla" will always be "yes".

SEIs will "overcome adversity", using Se, a function they are also strong in, in the pursuit of their goals, whatever they may be, but one suspects ultimately related to Si and Fe.

Yes, of course every type experiences or overcomes adversity at times. It seems you and Gilly are missing the question, though....Perhaps the question wasn't clear enough. Every type does everything, but not every type is known for the same typical "themes" or "roles." Furthermore, to the extent that each type expresses something (e.g., the theme of overcoming adversity), presumably it would have a certain flavor to it that would be different from other types. So, what I was asking for is if people had noticed SEIs playing that particular role, and what flavor it had. It's a question that requires an experiential/observational answer like "No, I've never met an SEI like that" or "Yes, and I've observed the following about SEIs when they're expressing the need to overcome adversity."

Obviously, if an SEI is overcoming something, it would theoretically likely be in pursuit of Si/Fe related goals....but that doesn't really tell us that much.

[implied]

anyone want to give a suggestion of a Si/Fe related struggle to overcome? /: i find that ESFjs being both positivists and EJs and everything else tend to take on crazy tasks and sometimes actually succeed at them, although they do it extremely chaotically. they act as if they didn't have a problem doing much of anything.

fwiw i tend to agree that "life is hard" and a struggling sort of mentality seems more beta, at least on the surface.

[tcaudilllg]

Actually, both INTjs and INFjs feel (or think) they must make their own ways in the world, often over oppositon. (Se)

Also, what makes life "hard" is the stubborn obstinance of the world's denser denizens. When someone says they are going to stand in your way despite your having perfectly good reasons for what you are trying to do, you are presented with a distracting obstacle. This distraction tends to eat up your time in futility, misdirecting your effort from life's real needs. So you are not using all of the energy available to you effectively, and thus are left playing close to the "razor's edge" of your available resources.

It is the people who see life as unpredictable and dangerous -- those who genuinely believe life is a struggle no matter what -- who make it that way. Look at Mein Kampf: "My Struggle", no less.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I wouldn't say life is hard. I would say that it is a perpetual challenge, however. "Life is hard" sounds like such a weeny way to feel, lol.

[Blaze]

Yes, of course every type experiences or overcomes adversity at times. It seems you and Gilly are missing the question, though....Perhaps the question wasn't clear enough. Every type does everything, but not every type is known for the same typical "themes" or "roles." Furthermore, to the extent that each type expresses something (e.g., the theme of overcoming adversity), presumably it would have a certain flavor to it that would be different from other types. So, what I was asking for is if people had noticed SEIs playing that particular role, and what flavor it had. It's a question that requires an experiential/observational answer like "No, I've never met an SEI like that" or "Yes, and I've observed the following about SEIs when they're expressing the need to overcome adversity."

Obviously, if an SEI is overcoming something, it would theoretically likely be in pursuit of Si/Fe related goals....but that doesn't really tell us that much.

i get what you're saying here...all types have to deal with adversity but because of the way that beta deals with it they get more of the attention and credit or something.

quadra breakdown:

alpha: be ready for adversity and work through it when it comes, but get things situated to a point where you're dealing with the least possible amount of adversity.

beta: pro-act impending struggles with adversity on one's own terms in order to reach a higher goal.

gamma: anticipate adversity, developing "good enough" plans to work through adversity together...by assigning a job or a role to each member of the collective.

delta: see adversity everywhere and develop plans to address every contingency so that you don't strain yourself too much or lose anything important. maximum security orientation.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[FDG]

? Life isn't hard. Otherwise people would be dying left and right because they couldn't manage to keep life going. hehehe.

Everyone has stuff IN life that's hard for them personally, but most get past those things, and life itself isn't difficult (unless you're struggling with a fatal disease or something) just much too short.

I have felt at times like there were insurmountable obstacles in front of me, but I made it past them, so they must not have been as bad as they looked. I guess I was just depressed, and unreasonably thinking that nothing would ever change.

Yeah same for me. Whenever I felt like obstacles were big it was just because I was slightly depressed.

[Ms. Kensington]

very interesting, how each post speaks to one's type.

It's weird though, an INTj will always have reasons for doing something, or at least the feeling that he does, even if he can't readily state them. He will always feel as if opposition will reduce his resources. This confuses me since it doesn't make complete logical sense to me.

[Blaze]

very interesting, how each post speaks to one's type.

It's weird though, an INTj will always have reasons for doing something, or at least the feeling that he does, even if he can't readily state them. He will always feel as if opposition will reduce his resources. This confuses me since it doesn't make complete logical sense to me.

prolly weak Se?

[redbaron]

alpha: be ready for adversity and work through it when it comes, but get things situated to a point where you're dealing with the least possible amount of adversity.

This is how the SEIs I know function. They deal with adversity when it comes but they take what steps they can ahead of time to avoid conflict. "life is hard" isn't something they would ever SAY either. They would just get in a dark mood, pull away and work through it on their own.

[Joy]

I wouldn't say life is hard.

Neither would Jonathan, apparently.