Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Augusto Pinochet

  1. #1
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Augusto Pinochet

    Today was the day, the day when the dictator (or saviour for others) passed away. I don't know what more to say. But it would be interesting to know his type. The most interesting thing about his death, it was on Human Rights Day... what the FUCK.
    [web:c949658b01]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinochet[/web:c949658b01]

  2. #2
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think perhaps SEI, but I have to get back to this.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  3. #3
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SEI make sense. I don't see him as a logical person...

  4. #4
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have seen Pinochet in videos and read things about him; SEI is just an overall impression. But unlike what many may think, I think SEI is a not uncommon type among high-ranking career military officers. They have in super-id and understand , which makes them understand and accept power structures and orders from superiors without bothering whether they make sense or not. SEIs also tend to find the kind of academic studies in military schools, focusing on mathematics, congenial. They also have little problem with things like keeping themselves and their quarters in good shape and appearance, and in excelling in physical activities. I think SEIs may be as common as LSIs among high-ranking career officers.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  5. #5
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I have seen Pinochet in videos and read things about him; SEI is just an overall impression. But unlike what many may think, I think SEI is a not uncommon type among high-ranking career military officers. They have in super-id and understand , which makes them understand and accept power structures and orders from superiors without bothering whether they make sense or not. SEIs also tend to find the kind of academic studies in military schools, focusing on mathematics, congenial. They also have little problem with things like keeping themselves and their quarters in good shape and appearance, and in excelling in physical activities. I think SEIs may be as common as LSIs among high-ranking career officers.
    one question: how much are you related with the military? are you one or a kind of close friend or your dad/mum?
    you seems to know how military works. Mi father is (was) in the military so I understand what are you talking about and i have to agree with everything you said.

  6. #6
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    what do you mean by "congenial?" churning out proof after proof might not suit a Te preference.

    but consider von Neumann, feynman, wiener, bill gates - who in "The Road Ahead" said he considered an academic career in combinatorics. said he liked maths (although he may have spent more of time playing with the Altair and poker in college - but again, both potentially very mathematical.) but said the main reason he opted for other pursuits was (paraphrased) to see an effect in the real world.

    so i don't know if Ti preference has anything to do with finding focussing on maths more "congenial". although maybe they'd be more satisfied pursuing them for their own sake.
    My point was rather to explain why a SEI might find military academic life more congenial than others, that are more Te-focused. That has nothing to do with whether or not LIEs might like mathematics, too. I wasn't reasoning "he liked mathematics, hence SEI", if that's what you thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by normal

    one question: how much are you related with the military? are you one or a kind of close friend or your dad/mum?
    you seems to know how military works. Mi father is (was) in the military so I understand what are you talking about and i have to agree with everything you said.
    Thanks.

    My SEI father was very briefly in the military, and he always regarded that as one of the happiest times of his life, which is why I have no problem with the idea that SEIs might like it. But I know how it works because I've read studies on that, including lengthy explanations by military officers themselves.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  7. #7
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    are there any components of socionics you associate with a dislike for them?
    I think in super-ego.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  8. #8
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i can see Si and Ti in his life. Strong Si, you have to listen speak!

  9. #9
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I posted this in another thread, useful for this one --

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    btw, in spite of his "grumpy face", Expat has Augusto Pinochet typed as Fe-creative.
    And how many different videos, or even pictures, have you seen of Pinochet, pray tell? Do you think that he had a "grumpy face" all the time?

    On the contrary, in the period after he left the presidency but remained commander of the army, he was reported to be quite a jolly fellow when traveling more or less in cognito to other South American countries, doing things like casually dancing with ladies at bars, where everybody was dancing; on one occasion, such a lady, being told after the even that the guy was Pinochet, she said she had no idea, but he had been friendly, nice, fun, etc. In fact, in pictures of this period - that is, after the presidency but before the London "crisis", he was often anything but grumpy.

    So get your facts straight.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  10. #10
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    On SEIs as career military officers, I am familiar with the generals who took turns in the Brazilian presidency in the period 1964-85; I think two of them, Costa e Silva, and Figueiredo, were SEIs. Costa e Silva, in particular, resembled Pinochet in many ways:








    That is just by the way; it's not the main reason for my typing of Pinochet.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  11. #11
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A picture of "non-grumpy" Pinochet --

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  12. #12
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    On SEIs as military dictators, what happened in the case of Costa e Silva (and perhaps Pinochet, but I don't know the details) is as follows.

    As I mentioned, they do well in the environment of military academies, both in sports and academically. To do well academically helps your career prospects in the military forever, this is always remembered by everyone. If you also tend to get along with most people (as SEIs usually do) and obey orders in a military environment (as SEIs can very well do) and do the job at hand (ditto) and exercise authority in a Se way when necessary (ditto again), you are likely to rise to to the very top.

    That doesn't make you a revolutionary, and personally I think that neither Costa e Silva nor Pinochet would have taken the initiative -- it can be argued that Allende promoted Pinochet precisely because of the perception that Pinochet wasn't the guy to carry out a military coup. However, if a momentum builds up among the top officers and generals that they "have" to do a coup, and want the top SEI general to lead them, he's likely to accept.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  13. #13
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    A picture of "non-grumpy" Pinochet --


    damn! i came too late for the picture or something?

    That doesn't make you a revolutionary, and personally I think that neither Costa e Silva nor Pinochet would have taken the initiative -- it can be argued that Allende promoted Pinochet precisely because of the perception that Pinochet wasn't the guy to carry out a military coup. However, if a momentum builds up among the top officers and generals that they "have" to do a coup, and want the top SEI general to lead them, he's likely to accept.
    if i understand well what you write, then you are right. Pinochet were military influenced to make the strike. Leigh (marine) and Merino (air force) were anti-marxist to the core. I mean, here in Chile there was some disagree with the 'socialist' goverment and there were rumors about the MIR/FPMR (some kind of paramilitary/guerrilla) were to strike too. So, follow the same rumors, the USA support the strike and Pinochet agree to lead the attack.

  14. #14
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is interesting. This is the second instance of a cited SEI politician that I've come across. Kruschev I think was the other one, and it was Expat who made the SEI suggestion I believe.

    I would never expect this ego block to be in politics, especially not in this position - the IP position.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  15. #15
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is interesting. This is the second instance of a cited SEI politician that I've come across. Kruschev I think was the other one, and it was Expat who made the SEI suggestion I believe.

    I would never expect this ego block to be in politics, especially not in this position - the IP position.
    Agreed, I wouldn't fare well in the army.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  16. #16
    normal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    nil
    TIM
    nil
    Posts
    975
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is interesting. This is the second instance of a cited SEI politician that I've come across. Kruschev I think was the other one, and it was Expat who made the SEI suggestion I believe.
    i dont understand what you said here. I mean, i agree with Expat about SEI in military, but why politics??

  17. #17
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    There was a thread on him somewhere, but I can mention him here --

    I've taken a look at a very good biography of Francisco Franco by Paul Preston, and it seems to me that he was another SEI military dictator. His personal habits, especially as he got older, and eyewitness descriptions of one-to-one meetings all suggest SEI - also the reports on his meeting with Hitler, assuming the latter was indeed Beta NF.

    The difference with regard to the more common figure of the LSI dictator is this -- the SEI military dictator is usually a careerist who just happened to find himself at the top of the military hierarchy when there was a "momentum" for a coup or revolution or whatever, unlike the LSI who's more likely to have been a participant in ideological movements and conspiracies from an early stage. Also, once in power, the SEI is mainly concerned with consolidating his grip on power and removing or eliminating real or perceived enemies, as well as with keeping the propaganda face of the regime alive. The LSI also does this, but he also imposes his own views on how to actually run the country, its economy, and the like. The SEI may try to do it as well, for a while, but usually he just goes "whatever" and leaves such matter to be run by someone else. This is pretty much what happened in both Chile and Spain.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  18. #18
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by normal
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    This is interesting. This is the second instance of a cited SEI politician that I've come across. Kruschev I think was the other one, and it was Expat who made the SEI suggestion I believe.
    i dont understand what you said here. I mean, i agree with Expat about SEI in military, but why politics??
    Because I'd never associate an SEI with even giving a shit about politics, let alone being an instrument of it. The idea of SEIs in my mind are the kind of people who chill throughout life and go with the flow, come what may. They enjoy everything as much as they can. Like a Lebowski character. I'd say he was an SEI. I think his Big counterpart, the rich one, is an LIE, his conflictor.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,178
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •