Lets talk about Activity Relations, your stories and experiences

[Creepy-bg]

ACK! I've got to keep him alive!!!

[1981slater]

I know lots of activity marriages....

I know a lot of broken conflictor marriages

[Lobo]

I saw this episode last week, so sad man. Though the episode with his little dog waiting for him was just depressing.

[ProcrastinateTomorrow]

I remember that episode with Fry's old Dog, Seymour.

It stayed with me the whole night I lost a few hours sleep over it.

[iAnnAu]

I know, Futurama had some seriously dark endings for a comedy show. The dog was one, but I found the end of the episode where they unglued the space-time-continuum growing a mutant basketball team even more disturbing. Poor, hapless Fry actually pulls his shit together and she'll never even know. Sigh.

... back to on-topic, when I first looked up socionics, I thought my ex might be my activity relation, because we hit off so well for the first year. Even though I was pregnant for the first six months we dated, we still played racquetball, went camping and hiking, took a cicada shell to the Chattanooga aquarium (everyone kept telling me "you have a bug on your shirt" and I kept telling them "I know, I put it there!") and tons more fun and silly stuff. So I also considered that maybe we over-"activated" each other when not long after we got married he suddenly turned inward. Now I'm fairly certain he was EIE, not EII, and superego relations makes a ton of sense for the two of us.

I think an old high school buddy might be EII; (not least because) we've always had fun together whether exploring abandoned houses, camping in the woods with no camping equipment, watching esoteric movies or just "shootin' the shit" (East TN slang for chatting) and he's the kind of guy who can actually talk about his feelings without going all "I'm being so sensitive!" melodramatic. At certain moments through the years we've had sexual tension become a question, but we've always ended up keeping things platonic. He's living in England now, so I don't even get to see him once a year, but when we do, it really is just like old times. He'll even invite me to join in his family events, which impresses me because I've a few times been the only non-family member there (and, considering families are made up of people who hold a broad mix of cultural expectations, I'm also glad he feels comfortable having a friend of the opposite sex held up to the light of the rumor mill).

[idealistichick]

I just ended my second activity relationship with another SLE Ti subtype. And its really hurting me. I miss hanging out with him. But I can pretty much sum up the problems with activity relations.
1. Communication was not always direct. Me and him used to text teach other to see where to meet up and to confirm plans. We lead separate lives pretty much and when we met up its like we were both in completely different dimensions. He used to initiate our conversations and when he stopped I realized something was wrong.
2. One really weird factor is that emotions are way too intense. We became a couple after only talking for 2 weeks. And within the first week we just couldn't stand to be away from each other. We both told each other that we can't get each other off our minds.

I did ask in the middle of the relationship if things went by too fast and he said he was moving at a "good" pace and I said I was fine too. We broke up five days ago and his reasons were that things happened to quickly and that he was "confused" about how he feels. I think he simply couldn't handle the intensity especially having Fi POLR.

So my advice is to stay away from activity....

[Lobo]

He'll even invite me to join in his family events, which impresses me because I've a few times been the only non-family member there (and, considering families are made up of people who hold a broad mix of cultural expectations, I'm also glad he feels comfortable having a friend of the opposite sex held up to the light of the rumor mill).

Idk know if this would apply to the majority of EIIs, but it means a lot if I invite only one non-family member to a family event. That would mean that you are in the circle of trust. Also, I could care less that people think that I'm dating a girl just because I hang out with her a lot. It's not like I can't figure out when a girl is getting the wrong message from our interactions... Then again, girls can be pretty good at hiding how they feel at times .

I just ended my second activity relationship with another SLE Ti subtype. And its really hurting me. I miss hanging out with him. But I can pretty much sum up the problems with activity relations.
1. Communication was not always direct. Me and him used to text teach other to see where to meet up and to confirm plans. We lead separate lives pretty much and when we met up its like we were both in completely different dimensions. He used to initiate our conversations and when he stopped I realized something was wrong.
2. One really weird factor is that emotions are way too intense. We became a couple after only talking for 2 weeks. And within the first week we just couldn't stand to be away from each other. We both told each other that we can't get each other off our minds.

I did ask in the middle of the relationship if things went by too fast and he said he was moving at a "good" pace and I said I was fine too. We broke up five days ago and his reasons were that things happened to quickly and that he was "confused" about how he feels. I think he simply couldn't handle the intensity especially having Fi POLR.

So my advice is to stay away from activity....

Actually, I think that it's a good idea to be in an activity relationship... It definitely has some personal growth factor to it, along with knowing that you'll always have someone that genuinely cares about you, regardless of where things take you. It's like you can't really stay mad with the person, even if things end up badly. There's definitely an element of accepting you for who you are. It has its bumps, in my case the big ones are communication and stability. I could write a lot about my particular experience, but I don't want to waste my energy into something that people might not be interested in, hehe.

If that SLE of yours came back and wanted to hang with you again, would you really say no?

[idealistichick]

I would take him back in a heart beat. no questions asked. I'm really into him...

[idealistichick]

lol seriously you would think that i would have learned from my 5 year relationship with my other estp ex lol

[Jarno]

2. One really weird factor is that emotions are way too intense. We became a couple after only talking for 2 weeks. And within the first week we just couldn't stand to be away from each other. We both told each other that we can't get each other off our minds.

it's even more extreme in duality. especially the same subtype.

[shakealittle]

it's even more extreme in duality. especially the same subtype.

Yeah, I wonder if this is a downfall of duality.....that it's pretty hard to escape/ignore the seriousness of the relationship? That's what I experienced with EIE-LSI duality anyway.

[Lobo]

Yeah, I wonder if this is a downfall of duality.....that it's pretty hard to escape/ignore the seriousness of the relationship? That's what I experienced with EIE-LSI duality anyway.

Intense relationships can be addicting, because you have a rush and all that. But, really, I see myself not being so open to that with time. I want something that is serious, but stable, that doesn't have you feeling like crap whenever something goes wrong, and doesn't make you feel like you can potentially die from the relationship :/. I think that Fi ego types "want" something that is very grounded and stable, that doesn't feel like you're wasting time working on something, only to have it become unpredictable, on and off kind of thing. It doesn't have anything to do with not liking people that make you have intense relationships. It's just that I can't help but thinking "why go through all this?" In that sense, I don't think duality is more "intense" than activity, because at some point in an activity relationship, you might come to the realization that this might be too much for you to emotionally handle, and having to break something because of this reason is very hard to do and feels stupid, because nothing really was "wrong," you're just different. To me activity is like the relationship you want so bad to work out, and for that I consider it to be more intense.

[idealistichick]

Yeah I agree for some reason you do want to work it out reallly bad. Having two failed ones though makes you realize there are many reasons why they don't work. I didn't know that the second one was SLE Ti. I thought he was LSI. That's why I went for it initially. I guess the Ti attracted me. But its been six days since the break up and I am doing everything in my power to forget about him and its not working. The other day I was having a great time just dancing all night and I kept seeing his face. Blah beta NF's!

[Jarno]

Yeah, I wonder if this is a downfall of duality.....

more a case of a luxury problem.

[jewels]

my activity relationships wern't really that "intense." I felt they were interesting and comfortable. I had one friend who would sorta exhaust me after a while as he talked a looot (and even an INFj I knew felt he talked too much and was tiring lol). But another ESTj and I dated and I really didn't feel that way. Maybe it was because he was working a lot and usually tired, but we relaxed most of the time or joked around, or went out. The Si and Te was nice and so I usually felt "comfy." when I think of "intense" I think of something more like comparative, or even semi-dual or really, any rollarcoaster/drama type relationship regardless of type.

[Jarno]

What does "same" subtype mean in duality terms?

Like either leading or creative?

So for instance, if I am the creative subtype (Si vs. Fe) and my boyfriend LII is the creative subtype (Ne vs. Ti) then our subtypes would "match"?

yep.

The effect for the relationship are not that big. Dual will stay dual. But in a duality relationship between same subtypes there is a bit stronger bond, than with differing subtypes. We had a (derailed) thread about it a while ago and everyone acknowledged this.

Also as a general rule for all relationships, same subtypes seem to have more attraction.

[UDP]

Having a good activity partner friend really is awesome. I feel like it almost would be 'too much' for a relationship. But for someone to call up and do something with, or work with, it's fantastic.

<3 IEEs

[EllaC]

Anyone in these?

Why are these the only relations (maybe), that I can get from 'seeing each other' to 'relationship' level easily? The rest are sooo hard to do, even bloody duals!

[crazedrat]

ive been in a few of them. it's alot of sex mixed with whatever you typically enjoy doing with others. there is less of a cathartic feeling to the relationship. its sort of indulgent

[stevENTj]

Going on 13 years together, 5 years of marriage, and 2 kids later with my ESI 'Activity Partner' wife.

[Jarno]

Anyone in these?

Why are these the only relations (maybe), that I can get from 'seeing each other' to 'relationship' level easily? The rest are sooo hard to do, even bloody duals!

Yes, I have the same experience. Though it's probably due to socionics that I can sense better wether a relationship will work out or not. You get more focussed on it.

[redbaron]

I know several IEI-LSI activity marriages. They seem strong, healthy and happy. I also know one ESE-ILE activity marriage. But unless you're really super close to someone, you're not going to know the truth about their marriage. Gosh I've learned recently that looks can be deceiving. Nobody really talks about what goes on but yeah I think every marriage that I know other than dual marriages have true issues when they've been married for long enough (long enough meaning 10+ years).

you can find happiness without finding a dual. but the deepest most long-lasting comforting life-time partner is going to be a dual. so either wait for it, or don't. but at least you guys have the knowledge that I didn't have when I was young to make that decision.

[Danielle]

The only problems I've had with activity relationships (both friends and romantic interests):

- need to take breaks because things get a little intense due to going farther and deeper faster than with others. With my first boyfriend we'd end up spending 8 or 9 hours on the phone and he wouldn't want me to go. If the energy dies down for either one of the partners, it can seem like the relationship is dying because that's what it's based on.

- some boredom and laziness because we're both introverts. You wanna do something? Yeah. Okay. Nothing but sitting around talking more.

- there often ends up being an intimacy imbalance, where one feels more than the other at a given point in time. This happened with my closest friend a few years back, she and I were activity partners. We spent every day together and I got her a job working for my company so we became very close. Then an ENFP came along and she just..disconnected a bit. Her energies were going elsewhere.

[Blaze]

i had two romantic relationships which were activity (ESE). one lasted 3 years the other a couple of months. we connected quickly and being extraverts, did a lot of stuff together. we negotiated easily and didn't have any misunderstandings.

the problem ended up being one of rational-irrational. my partners thought i was too wild and unpredictable. i thought their step by step conformity approach was too predictable. one relationship i ended because i could see my irrationality (wouldn't have called it that at the time obviously) was hurting him. the other relationship was ended by the other person...i kinda think he knew how things would eventually go.

ps i kinda was too wild and unpredictable. lol. it would prolly go much better now!

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[EllaC]

@EllaC: If you realize that you are a Rational type, as I told you, probably many of your issues would make sense.

What does this mean? :-)

[EllaC]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...pics-poll.html

Yes thanks, I remember your response :-) I could never rule out other options, even rational options, but I could rule out S types (not socionically correct I know!) ... hmm... I like ESFj's a lot, maybe the best. I also like INFj's, ISFp's quite a bit... and INFp's annoy me to hell.

[EllaC]

What about ISFJ, if you have experience?

Not a 100% sure on my typings, but if I am right, I know that some of them I've have to watch what I say. But then, another one who was that type (probably) I was very impressed with. So inconclusive overall.

[EllaC]

Yeah... I'm very convinced you're a Logical Rational type, and I think an Extroverted one, too. The rest, dunno.

Okay, thanks :-) x

[stevENTj]

it's not the same thing as a dual where words do not do justice do describe what that experience is like.

I think every marriage that I know other than dual marriages have true issues when they've been married for long enough (long enough meaning 10+ years).

you can find happiness without finding a dual. but the deepest most long-lasting comforting life-time partner is going to be a dual. so either wait for it, or don't. but at least you guys have the knowledge that I didn't have when I was young to make that decision.

basically, get your duals lined up in a row

13 years with my 'Activity' wife in a fully committed relationship (ILI/ESI), married for nearly 5 years and 2 kids later, and no "true issues". Honest.

Call me biased if you want, but I think there's been a bit of a history here of people over glorifying and romanticizing the whole duality concept as far as these things go. If you've been in a bad relationship or two and have learned about Socionics enough to know that the mixing of your two types might have been a bad combo then it's perfectly understandable to only seek a dual. But in all honesty I think it's nonsense to suggest that unless you find a dual you're going to suffer from "true issues" at some point in your relationship or marriage. As if it's not possible to have a very strong and happy relationship without any major/true issues with any other type than your dual. As they say, maybe a little knowledge is a dangerous thing?

The funny thing is that I met my wife through my first college roommate, who was an LIE/ENTj - her dual! Both of them considered the other "defective" in various ways and there really wasn't any interest. OTOH, my wife and I as Activity took right off. Can't have a relationship with someone if it never starts. My roommate was bitter. I think he considered her 'his', but trust me when I say it that he had 'issues' that would have made a whole lot of women reject him. PoLR might have had something to do with that. So much for duality there.

Speaking of physical traits , there's a whole lot more to relationships than Socionics. That's just the mental part. There are also physical mechanisms such as the physiological chemistry that goes on (literally) from the sensual/sexual aspects. There are pheromones and endorphins and all sorts of good stuff going on. Physical attractiveness matters. I think my wife is hot and she thinks I'm hot. I don't think I'm particularly hot and she doesn't think she is either, but hey, it doesn't matter to a mate what you think of yourself. Satisfaction in the bedroom and lots of teasing and innuendo out of it will help keep things blissful. Is it taboo to dare suggest that there are other things that matter to make a relationship work besides socionics on a socionics forum? There's other things along purely physical lines that can make a big difference that I'm not even going to mention.

Fast-forward many years later after my wife and I were already married. My wife happened to be working with an SEE female at work who was also single. We met up for dinner once in awhile and she never really talked to me much, but seemed obsessed over me when just chit-chatting with my wife at work when I wasn't there. On one hand she was constantly trying to put me down and diminish me in various ways (finding 'defects' in me), but on the other hand she was almost paranoid about whether I liked her or not? I thought it was kinda cute. Fast-forward another couple of years to just this past weekend (or the previous) and the SEE got married. We were invited but couldn't make it. Met her now husband about a year ago and if I could guess a type it would have been ILI/INTp - he really did seem a whole lot like me which would have made them a duality.

So yes there seems to be something to duality - not diminishing it in any way - but I think forecasting doom & gloom on any other long-term relationship besides duality is the wrong approach to have. You're going to have potential issues in ANY relationship including duality. What matters most is how you're able to work through the issues and if you can resolve them or not. Being Duals of course you'd have the easiest time doing that since duals will naturally understand the other and speak their language. Maybe it just requires a little more conscious effort if you're not duals. There's certainly been some rational/irrational tension between my wife and I, but we COMMUNICATE with each other and resolve things. My wife seems to think I'm an ENTj (go figure ) so in the past whenever I'd mention I was thinking about doing something she'd naturally assume I was already doing it and try to put the brakes on me and protect me from myself when I'm really just being my irrational IP-self and not actively doing anything at all. Just thinking out loud. She gets that now. Issue resolved. What issue?

Sure you can wait around to find a dual that's available, attractive to you, and compatible in all other areas of a potential relationship, but you might grow old doing so. And by the time you might meet this person they might have been so twisted up and mangled inside from previous relationships and life experiences that it might not even work out. There is that initial barrier to overcome with Dual relationships that could lead someone who's a bit twisted up inside into more 'bad' relationships than a dual that they might have dismissed. Funny how that works... Why you're waiting for this dual, plenty of other perfectly good people that you could have great relationships might be passing you by, including activity partners.

The socionics description of Activity relations seems pretty accurate. Yes they're EXTREMELY easy to start up, and yes you'll have a ton of fun together. But yes, you can get over-activated and then need some time apart. So my wife and I get back from having a blast together and take a few hours break and do our own things, and then after that we go out and have some more fun. The cycle repeats itself. It's good having at least one rational in an relationship too. She's much more efficient at getting stuff done than I am. If we were both irrational types what would ever get done? I can get stuff done when I need to, but it doesn't come nearly as naturally for me as it does for her.

So Duality is certainly nice, but I wouldn't get too hung up on it given all the other things besides mental compatibility that go towards making a relationship work.

[redbaron]

I hear you Steve. I love my husband, he's totally hot and we have lots of great sex. etc, etc. We've been "together" from the time we were dating for nearly 20 years. And happily.

but have you ever been in a close dual relationship? there's something there... something that I've missed. Not because my husband and I don't communicate (both of us being ethical types, and him talking all the time, I'm guessing we communicate quite a bit more than most couples) or because we don't care or share the same values. We do. We have fun together and get along well on a day-to-day basis. But there's a disconnect when it comes to a spiritual/emotional understanding which I've even talked with him about (and please keep in mind that I'm married to my supervisee, not even in my quadra). And if one doesn't care about that, well then fine. But for me, experiencing that with a dual has been amazing. It doesn't replace what I have with my husband but it adds to my life in a way I never imagined. And if I were young and hadn't met my husband yet, I'd go for a dual! That's all I'm saying here.

(it's probably better for inter-quadra marriages. I know several seemingly very happy activity marriages irl). Thanks for weighing in on this. I do think it's important to hear from people with successful non-dual relationships. And we probably do idolize duality too much on this board. But I'm brand new to experiencing it and have been surprised at how much the descriptions match my experience. Blows my mind actually.

[redbaron]

You know what I also wrote about my experienced duality. I was not careful for the speculations of people who just dream of it, but IMO duality is not only "better" but the one and only one which is worth. I'm glad to hear that you experience it, too!

I'm still thinking about the morality of tempting the others being in a Socionically not-so-good one, married and maybe having children. Imo it's for the better in any case, the rest follows.

I don't know. be careful with this because there are lots of factors involved and many people's lives. life isn't about providing yourself with the greatest possible happiness, it's about becoming the person you were made to be, building character and learning to love. Sometimes that could mean great personal sacrifice and bearing the cross of loving someone who turned out NOT to be your ideal mate. I mean, what if your wife was in a car accident at the age of 30 and you had to take care of her? Would you do that for the rest of your life? Even if you met your dual and wanted to lead a normal life? Sometimes circumstances call us to set our personal desires aside. But at other times it's a question of survival. If you're dead in your soul, spiraling downward, it might be better for everyone to cut the cord and move on. I'm not a proponent of staying in a deteriorating relationship just to be able to say that you were married for 50 years. Either make your peace with it, make it better, or get out. But anyway... it's complicated.

[FDG]

Yeah, Steve, sometimes I think activity in some ways it's better than duality; because you actually have more shared values with your activity partner than with your dual (ex. INTp and ISFj are both cautious and rather grounded types, neither has flighty moments or love for really daring - but maybe stupid - projects; while ESFp and ENTj can be the opposite), you can, somehow, "have more fun" and more rarely think that the other is being "boring" or "unreasonable". Not to mention, of course, the sexual part which can be really good even between conflicting partners and thus is often responsible for some apparently "strange", or even outright bad, relationships.

Yet perhaps also the "hard" part of duality is what makes it good, I often see ISFjs being kind of relaxed by the fact that I just do things without telling them, or that I am somewhat careless about danger, even if consciously they try to change those parts of me because they don't fit with their world-view. I also often think they waste too much time working on some fine detail, or studying, or something similar, but I can also kind of see how it's good for life to act like that, even if it doesn't necessarily fit my world-view. At the end of the day, most of my friends end up being ISFjs or ENTjs. It seems to be just like that, it happens even if I'm not consciously doing it, and it clearly used to happen even before I knew about socionics.

Me, I've never been able to get interested in an ESFp, neither been able to get them interested in me. We seem to understand implicitly that we're both too extraverted for our own good and that we'd be better off with somebody with a milder personality.

[stevENTj]

I hear you Steve. I love my husband, he's totally hot and we have lots of great sex. etc, etc. We've been "together" from the time we were dating for nearly 20 years. And happily.

but have you ever been in a close dual relationship? there's something there... something that I've missed. Not because my husband and I don't communicate (both of us being ethical types, and him talking all the time, I'm guessing we communicate quite a bit more than most couples) or because we don't care or share the same values. We do. We have fun together and get along well on a day-to-day basis. But there's a disconnect when it comes to a spiritual/emotional understanding which I've even talked with him about (and please keep in mind that I'm married to my supervisee, not even in my quadra). And if one doesn't care about that, well then fine. But for me, experiencing that with a dual has been amazing. It doesn't replace what I have with my husband but it adds to my life in a way I never imagined. And if I were young and hadn't met my husband yet, I'd go for a dual! That's all I'm saying here.

(it's probably better for inter-quadra marriages. I know several seemingly very happy activity marriages irl). Thanks for weighing in on this. I do think it's important to hear from people with successful non-dual relationships. And we probably do idolize duality too much on this board. But I'm brand new to experiencing it and have been surprised at how much the descriptions match my experience. Blows my mind actually.

See?

20 years with your Supervisee and it's been great, although maybe a bit awkward and lacking in some areas. The same supervisee relationship for me would net me an LSE/ESTj, and I can definitely see how that'd be awkward (for them) with my strong constantly hitting them as that's their weakest function. To be honest and JMHO but I really don't think that's in the same ball park as an Activity relationship which is what this thread is about, and yet you've still managed to make it work and are happy after 20 years. That's half my point!

To answer your question, no I have never experienced a close duality relationship. Besides the SEE friend of my wife I have never known another, period. And especially for ILIs with PoLR who make it a point to avoid a lot of social situations and social interaction, the odds of one miraculously being dropped right in front of you where you'd notice and available for the taking I would classify as an act of God. Apparently God didn't have an SEE available for me but dropped a fire-breathing ESI in my lap and I couldn't be happier.

The other half of my point is this. If I had rejected my wife would I have found an SEE/dual yet? I'm guessing no, and I would have been alone these past 13 blissful years, and they were blissful. So finding a dual is nice, but don't wait around for one because they might never come. You can have great long-term relationships with far more than just duals. Maybe shopping around for or waiting for a dual is more appropriate for the more social types that get out there and interact with more people, but that's probably not the wisest idea for an ILI with PoLR Fe.

Random thought. What if you were to wait around 10 or 20 years for a magical Dual to come your way, you meet, you fall in love, and then things are just totally beyond hope in the bedroom? What then? :tongue: Now you're maybe mentally and spiritually fulfilled, but sexually dissatisfied and still wanting. That would suck.

If you happen to have a partner in life who's truly mentally, spiritually, and physically satisfying to you and they just happen to be a dual then I'd say you're truly blessed. The reason people talk about this so much and idolize it is because yes it is probably that rare. Otherwise they wouldn't be talking about it - they'd be enjoying it. It's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect to be able to get all things that you need out of your partner in life. This is what friends are for. I have them, and so does my wife. I have other interests that I chat with friends about, and so does my wife. We don't bore each other to death by trying to talk to each other about such things. This is what we do with friends after we've come back from having a whole shit-ton of fun together and are in that elastic "deactivation" phase. It's a natural rhythm. If we try to do that stuff with each other it gets aggravating, which is why you have friends and avoid over-activating your partner. Similarly you've found a way to make a supervisor/supervisee type relationship work well and manage that too.

If I was going to get stuck on an island with only ONE other person for many many years, then YES I would like them to be a dual since you have no other outlet for your thoughts in that case. Fortunately we don't live on islands and aren't cut off from the rest of the world.

And if I were young and hadn't met my [supervisee] husband yet, I'd go for a dual! That's all I'm saying here.

I can't honestly say I'd have it any other way than my activity wife. Love her to death, although I have never had a close duality relationship so I suppose I'm missing some perspective that you've experienced. The last time I was really active here when I finally realized that I was an ILI afterall and that my wife and I were Activity and not Duality, my exact thoughts were - 'well whatever the hell it is it sure is hot and works great!'

My daughter might very well be an SEE/dual to me, but she's 2. Will be interesting to see how she develops and what our relationship is like over time. Looking forward to finding out.

[stevENTj]

I'm still thinking about the morality of tempting the others being in a Socionically not-so-good one, married and maybe having children. Imo it's for the better in any case, the rest follows.

Better for whom?

I don't know. be careful with this because there are lots of factors involved and many people's lives. life isn't about providing yourself with the greatest possible happiness, it's about becoming the person you were made to be, building character and learning to love. Sometimes that could mean great personal sacrifice and bearing the cross of loving someone who turned out NOT to be your ideal mate. I mean, what if your wife was in a car accident at the age of 30 and you had to take care of her? Would you do that for the rest of your life? Even if you met your dual and wanted to lead a normal life? Sometimes circumstances call us to set our personal desires aside. But at other times it's a question of survival. If you're dead in your soul, spiraling downward, it might be better for everyone to cut the cord and move on. I'm not a proponent of staying in a deteriorating relationship just to be able to say that you were married for 50 years. Either make your peace with it, make it better, or get out. But anyway... it's complicated.

+1 to the whole thing, and especially on the last sentence!

[redbaron]

yeah that's awesome that you feel that way, Steve. And I'll bet you'll have a great relationship with your daughter Your comments about waiting around for a dual reminded me of a guy I knew in college, ILI, he met his SEE wife their FRESHMAN year, the first week of school, and they never looked back. Everyone thought they were crazy but they're still together with four kids and yeah it was like an act of God for him. And truth be told, when I was younger I might have been put-off by the confidence and occasional arrogance of SLEs. I was just too immature and self-conscious/sensitive to appreciate that type of guy. So I really can't say what would have happened if I had even known about socionics then.

I do feel that I've been blessed and I'm grateful for friends who can fill in the "gaps" of the things my husband and I aren't able to give each other.

sorry to have de-railed this thread on activity relationships, everyone!!

[stevENTj]

Yeah, Steve, sometimes I think activity in some ways it's better than duality; because you actually have more shared values with your activity partner than with your dual (ex. INTp and ISFj are both cautious and rather grounded types, neither has flighty moments or love for really daring - but maybe stupid - projects; while ESFp and ENTj can be the opposite), you can, somehow, "have more fun" and more rarely think that the other is being "boring" or "unreasonable". Not to mention, of course, the sexual part which can be really good even between conflicting partners and thus is often responsible for some apparently "strange", or even outright bad, relationships.

Yet perhaps also the "hard" part of duality is what makes it good, I often see ISFjs being kind of relaxed by the fact that I just do things without telling them, or that I am somewhat careless about danger, even if consciously they try to change those parts of me because they don't fit with their world-view. I also often think they waste too much time working on some fine detail, or studying, or something similar, but I can also kind of see how it's good for life to act like that, even if it doesn't necessarily fit my world-view. At the end of the day, most of my friends end up being ISFjs or ENTjs. It seems to be just like that, it happens even if I'm not consciously doing it, and it clearly used to happen even before I knew about socionics.

Me, I've never been able to get interested in an ESFp, neither been able to get them interested in me. We seem to understand implicitly that we're both too extraverted for our own good and that we'd be better off with somebody with a milder personality.

When I think of Duality I tend to think of long-term business arrangements or business partners. The SEE 'Politician' and the ILI 'Strategist' or whatever they're called. A perfect pairing. The SEE is out running for office or trying to advance some cause without always knowing what they're doing, and the ILI provides them exactly the type of guidance they need in the precise manner they need to receive it. I could very much see myself working in one of these political think tank organizations whose purpose is to support causes that SEEs then pick up and run with.

That's business though. ISFjs are fun, spicy, and flirtatious to me. I know exactly how to push their buttons, and they seem to enjoy it. My wife is a 'stay between the lines' type of person, yes more conservative. I say to hell with the lines and start scribbling all over the page doing my own thing. Then we'll wrestle for control of the crayon while giggling, followed by a full on makeout session and going upstairs. Oh for the days before we had kids. I can see how SEE/LIE might not work as well, but man is ILI/ESI a whole lotta fun. Where's Expat at? IIRC he once told me that he knew a couple of activity marriages that were quite good, although I don't recall the types. Might have been ILI/ESI also for all I know.

[stevENTj]

yeah that's awesome that you feel that way, Steve. And I'll bet you'll have a great relationship with your daughter Your comments about waiting around for a dual reminded me of a guy I knew in college, ILI, he met his SEE wife their FRESHMAN year, the first week of school, and they never looked back. Everyone thought they were crazy but they're still together with four kids and yeah it was like an act of God for him.

My wife and I met our freshman year of college, the first week of school, and never looked back. Yes people thought we were crazy too, and my LIE roommate was not shy about pointing out the "stats" that less than 10% of college sweethearts ever end up married. Whatever. :tongue:

It's so ridiculously hard for ILIs to really socialize and meet people and interact. It really does have to be forced, so going into school and even before that I thought for sure that I'd never find anybody and would pretty much be alone my whole life. Fortunately I didn't have to wait long at all. Have actually been married and had two kids before most of my old high school classmates, which has been pretty surprising to me.

And truth be told, when I was younger I might have been put-off by the confidence and occasional arrogance of SLEs. I was just too immature and self-conscious/sensitive to appreciate that type of guy. So I really can't say what would have happened if I had even known about socionics then.

Most SLEs I've known have been complete assholes and all about themselves, except for one whom I've greatly admired and is really a great person, and whose wife I'm pretty sure is an IEI! At the end of the day Socionics is just a theory and not an established fact. Maybe some types really do need their Duals to be balanced and truly happy in life. Maybe some types will be just as good if not better off with an Activity life partner rather than a Dual. Maybe supervisor/supervisee is A-OK in some cases, but awful in others. Who knows. All I know is that there's far more to long-term relationships than socionics theory.

I do feel that I've been blessed and I'm grateful for friends who can fill in the "gaps" of the things my husband and I aren't able to give each other.

Indeed. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people are not married to their dual, so having friends, family, and other support to fill the occasional gaps is going to be essential for pretty much anybody. Like my wife - she just plain isn't interested in this "socionics crap" and other abstract theories, but they can intrigue me for hours. I don't bore her with this shit - I just log on and yack it up for as long as I please on a socionics forum if I want to talk about socionics. Similarly she doesn't bore me for hours on end talking about the latest fashions and styles and trends. That's why my wife's gay guy friend is for over email. And that's really all there is to it.

[stevENTj]

For anyone, including the children - presuming that at least the parent having th custody bonds with the Dual.
This is a bit tricky in that that a child can belong to a different quadra than the parent, and if the new partner would be incompatible with that child, some repulsion can develop.

You need to take off the hat here for a moment and realize there's far more to parenting and children and the bonds they all have to each other. You can't just replace one part with another that's theoretically more compatible and expect everything to go along. If the situation is truly abusive then that's another story maybe, but it's quite common for children to feel like the situation was their fault. Maybe in that situation what the kids need is not a new parent that's a dual to their mom, but rather a dual to them. In that case, what would that person be to the mom? Likely not a dual once again. Like redbaron said, it gets complicated.

I have no proof, but I doubt this is possible. Imo sexual satisfaction is directly related to psychological compatibility, my (not so large) experience partially confirms this to me.

Being well-matched mentally doesn't guarantee you're going to be well matched physically. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I'm not going to go into details, but it appears as though God Himself physically did build my wife and I for each other.

[FDG]

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people are not married to their dual

I wouldn't bet on this. Or, rather, I wouldn't bet that the relative majority (the absolute majority is another matter) of marriages isn't between duals, with other couplings behind (there's actually some russians studies about it and I'm pretty sure the figures were like that). I don't know if they'll make it to marriage, but a substantial amount of couples among my friends are dual couples (esp. the more long-lasting ones), probably up to 70 %.