Anyone?
What are ILIs-INTps like as children?
Anyone?
...smaller than when adults.
Actually I don't remember my childhood that well, and how I thinked back then. The main difference I suppose is that I was more emotionally expressive, or just had poorer control over my negative emotions back then.
I was mostly known for being very imaginative, and happy (although I wasn't that happy really) or maybe I just made other people happy.
I was interested about science (especially astronomy, paleontology and chemistry), history, computers etc.
Also I liked stuff like horror, sci-fi, superheroes, and fantasy.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
ILI children usually display lots of autistic behaviour...
Hmmm...I wonder if this thread will help me figure out whether I am an ILI or an Alpha NT. Perhaps there should be a thread like this regarding the childhood behavior for every socionic type?
Classical socionics: ()
, ILI-Ni
Dual-type theory: INTp-ENTp
5w6 sp/sx
MBTI: INTJ
Probably correct (the ILI type descriptions are full of typical autistic traits). For example asking a lot of questions about everything, reading a lot, quietly and passively observing others, seeking solitude, pondering about life and the universe.Originally Posted by machintruc
nah, there's way too many variables to make this accurate... much less useful
(and yes, I know this sounds hypocritical since I'm the one who started this thread)
If you're E5, you're not likely to be ILI...
LOL get a fucking clue machintruc.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I would say it's very difficult to tell apart LII child and ILI child just by judging on their behaviour, superficially their behaviour can be very similar, and have very similar interests.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Doubtful.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Enneagram 5 is the most autistic of all the Enneagram types. And both ILIs and E5s have the same basic "drive", "need" (or whatever you want to call it): to seek knowledge -- as much as possible. No other types -- in Socionics or in the Enneagram -- are as strongly focused on truth and knowledge.
Both ILI and LII are likely to score Enneagram 5 , that's the true part.Enneagram 5 is the most autistic of all the Enneagram types. And both ILIs and E5s have the same basic "drive", "need" (or whatever you want to call it): to seek knowledge -- as much as possible. No other types -- in Socionics or in the Enneagram -- are as strongly focused on truth and knowledge.
But what has autism anything to do with "seeking knowledge", reading books etc.? Absolutely nothing.
Do you two even have the faintest idea what autism is? Or what autists are really like? Have you ever met an autist? Have you ever even met an ILI? Have you ever met a another person? Or do you just live in a barrel?
An ILI playing autist in Rainman, isn't a criteria for ILI's having similarities with autists. And he's trying portray an autistic savant, who make ~2% of all autists.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I used to sit hours in my room and play with my lego (of course most of it being spacecraft), imagening all kinds of adventures.
I was also (like Warlord), interested in the universe, and the first book I read was about our solar system.
My mom always praised me as being an easy child, who could be left on his own, just playing with some toys.
At elementary school I was somewhat strange but smart. I was different from the other children, they all liked me though.
the comment ILIs display autistic behaviors, is like observing how buffalos display sheep tendencies due to them both having fur coats..
It's true, but it doesn't mean much other then.. both the animals have fur.
When I was a kid I was particularly emotionally expressive; really warm and happy, idealistic about the world and people... probably most kids are. I was also obsessed with starwars, dinosaurs, and coral reefs. And I used my imagination alot to transport me into fantasy scenarios where I was the hero and everyone I knew was relying on me to save them in some way. I was more calm then my brothers and sisters at home, but a total spaz at school.
I think I had narcissism from the day I was born
Actually, autism is more related to E4 than E5...Enneagram 5 is the most autistic of all the Enneagram types. And both ILIs and E5s have the same basic "drive", "need" (or whatever you want to call it): to seek knowledge -- as much as possible. No other types -- in Socionics or in the Enneagram -- are as strongly focused on truth and knowledge.
BLAHBLAHBLAHINTPSBLAHBLAHAUTISMBLAHBLAHBLAAAAAAH
Talk about Socionics, assholes.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Yes very recognizable. Except for the coral reefs...
meh nvm
Last edited by marooned; 07-30-2008 at 01:57 AM.
Don't worry about it so much Loki. It's only really one guy, who happens to be LII. From past threads it's clear he has a narcissistic complex having to do with his intelligence, and feels threatened by ILIs. I've seen him try and suggest 2 or 3 times now ILI = autistic. I don't think I've heard anyone else jump on board with him and go sailing. Everyone pretty much responds: Yeah, there are similarities, but thats a superficial association.
Alpha and Gamma never really get along
I can see why some might think I was autistic, but...
How delightful.
ADD is more related to dominant, and most autists are ILI or LSI, although there may be cases of ILE or LSE.
Get it through your hydrocephalic skull already. It's physically impossible to be autistic and ILI at the same time. The very definition of autism is basically lack ofADD is more related to dominant
...evidence suggests the underconnectivity is mainly within each hemisphere of the cortex and that autism is a disorder of the association cortex.
The frontal lobe or prefrontal association complex is involved in planning actions and movement, as well as abstract thought.
If an austist would take socionics test, he would obviously score asdominant. Their "real" type, if they were healthy, propably could be just about anything.
Do you have any idea what you are even talking about, ever?
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Actually, autism is an unhealthy form ofGet it through your hydrocephalic skull already. It's physically impossible to be autistic and ILI at the same time. The very definition of autism is basically lack ofADD is more related to dominant
...evidence suggests the underconnectivity is mainly within each hemisphere of the cortex and that autism is a disorder of the association cortex.
The frontal lobe or prefrontal association complex is involved in planning actions and movement, as well as abstract thought.
If an austist would take socionics test, he would obviously score as
Do you have any idea what you are even talking about, ever?
This explains why ****** (EIE, E2) although being very expressive, still seemed autistic
a ha. so according to you:Actually, autism is an unhealthy form ofGet it through your hydrocephalic skull already. It's physically impossible to be autistic and ILI at the same time. The very definition of autism is basically lack ofADD is more related to dominant
...evidence suggests the underconnectivity is mainly within each hemisphere of the cortex and that autism is a disorder of the association cortex.
The frontal lobe or prefrontal association complex is involved in planning actions and movement, as well as abstract thought.
If an austist would take socionics test, he would obviously score as
Do you have any idea what you are even talking about, ever?
This explains why ****** (EIE, E2) although being very expressive, still seemed autistic
Since autism is an unhealthy form of Ni, ******, who was EIE and E2, while being very expresssive, still seemed autistic.
(truth at last)
where to begin? i cannot grapple with this argument because there is no substance. there is no order. your would-be "conclusion" is actually written as your premise, and your opinions about ****** are stated as fact. yes, even stating that ****** was unhealthy is an opinion. not to mention that you defy/ignore logical categorization on a regular basis.
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
How manya ha. so according to you:Actually, autism is an unhealthy form ofGet it through your hydrocephalic skull already. It's physically impossible to be autistic and ILI at the same time. The very definition of autism is basically lack ofADD is more related to dominant
...evidence suggests the underconnectivity is mainly within each hemisphere of the cortex and that autism is a disorder of the association cortex.
The frontal lobe or prefrontal association complex is involved in planning actions and movement, as well as abstract thought.
If an austist would take socionics test, he would obviously score as
Do you have any idea what you are even talking about, ever?
This explains why ****** (EIE, E2) although being very expressive, still seemed autistic
Since autism is an unhealthy form of Ni, ******, who was EIE and E2, while being very expresssive, still seemed autistic.
(truth at last)
where to begin? i cannot grapple with this argument because there is no substance. there is no order. your would-be "conclusion" is actually written as your premise, and your opinions about ****** are stated as fact. yes, even stating that ****** was unhealthy is an opinion. not to mention that you defy/ignore logical categorization on a regular basis.
Actually, autism is an unhealthy form ofYeah in the same way that amputated leg is a unhealthy form of having a leg.
What kind of dumbass "proof" that's supposed to be? What's so "autistic" about ******? You obviously have no idea whatsover what autism even is. Even if ****** had some comordbidites with autism, those have totally different causes. An autist can't even manipulate a candy from a child, how the hell could an autist manipulate entire nation to do his bidding. Only one that seems autistic is you. With your obsession but lack of knowledge about autism, living in your own innerThis explains why ****** (EIE, E2) although being very expressive, still seemed autistic
Hey, that's my line.How many
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
"my world" says that I hate ILIActually, autism is an unhealthy form of
What kind of dumbass "proof" that's supposed to be? What's so "autistic" about ******? You obviously have no idea whatsover what autism even is. Even if ****** had some comordbidites with autism, those have totally different causes. An autist can't even manipulate a candy from a child, how the hell could an autist manipulate entire nation to do his bidding. Only one that seems autistic is you. With your obsession but lack of knowledge about autism, living in your own innerThis explains why ****** (EIE, E2) although being very expressive, still seemed autistic
Hey, that's my line.How many
Somehow that doesn't suprise me, odd
Well I like the LII's so now the universe is in balance
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
What is this obsession of yours? What is it about ILI people that you hate so much? Could you please explain this to me without using another excessively illogical and otherwise FUBAR argument?"my world" says that I hate ILI
Secondly, I can see where you might draw similarities between ILI and milder forms of autism, such as Asperger's Syndrome, yet were on earth do you get the idea that ILI will have a decent chance of corresponding with more severe forms of the condition?
Classical socionics: (
Dual-type theory: INTp-ENTp
5w6 sp/sx
MBTI: INTJ
::is absolutely indifferent::
He hates us because deep down he wishes he were us.
Either that or he is just being an ass intentionally. I know an alpha (my mother, ESFj) who will make no sense on purpose just to piss me off.. and she seems to get off to it. Like the feeling of knowing it's a joke, while I don't know.. she delights in.
Anyway, when she does this.. it is something about the way it demands attention, it's needy.. this rubs against my Fe badly. It's hard for me not to let a few "shut the fuck up"s slip out.
Yeah, we have problems sometimes.
You have to understand with alpha.. they don't talk in a Te way. I.E., they don't use language to make sense. Rather, they use language to play around with. I really feel like they're another species, sometimes. They remind me of a gang of monkeys in a zoo cage all hooting to eachother, and I have no idea what they're hooting about. Each hoot gets louder and louder, they start to experiment with different styles of hooting... Here I am sitting on the sidelines, I have no idea how to join in. Should I make meaningless noises too? Is this fun?
I would be happy to have the autistic Wittgenstein as ILI, anyway. He's only like.. the greatest philosopher ever
I don't wish I was an ILI, because ILI are unfriendly and egocentric.
You are wrong. There are two main areas where people with Asperger's Syndrome are different from the average person: they have a limited ability to interact socially, and they have limited behaviours and/or interests (the exact formulations of these criteria can be found on a lot of different sites if you are interested). Related to the second main criterion is a typical tendency to focus very intensively on information that can be found in books. People with Asperger usually spend much more time than the average person on reading, and they are much more focused on knowledge than on understanding (if you -- like for example Sergei Ganin -- want to draw that logical distinction).Both ILI and LII are likely to score Enneagram 5, that's the true part.Enneagram 5 is the most autistic of all the Enneagram types. And both ILIs and E5s have the same basic "drive", "need" (or whatever you want to call it): to seek knowledge -- as much as possible. No other types -- in Socionics or in the Enneagram -- are as strongly focused on truth and knowledge.
But what has autism anything to do with "seeking knowledge", reading books etc.? Absolutely nothing.
Yes, I have spent some years (6-7 I think) studying that phenomenon.
Yes, I have read many different biographies and other books, as well as articles, on autism and AS in general, I have seen quite a few documentaries.
Yes, many times.
Yes, many times.
No. Definitely not.
Wittgenstein definitely had Asperger's Syndrome, and he was most likely an ILI. Rick's typing of him is probably incorrect. Samuel Beckett also had AS for sure. Maybe the strong autistic traits in some ILIs make it more difficult for some socionists to see that they are not LIIs.
Let's do aNo. Definitely not.
Some people confuse E4 with E5 or E9.
Some ILI are E9, this is true, but they are mostly E4.
E5 are caracterised by anxiety (i.e. high level of norepinephrin). ILI, as irrational types, aren't really likely to be "anxious". (Intuitive Rational types are the most "anxious" ones)
I know E5 people that are : LII, ILE, EII, and SLI (mostly what Pavlov calls the "Strong type")
I know E4 people that are : SEI, IEI, and ILI (mostly what Pavlov calls the "Weak type")
I know lots of ILI-4 people, but not a single ILI-5 dude/girl.
E4 have the lowest level of neurotransmitters. Autism is strongly related to that.
Therefore, yes. E4 is the most autistic type.
That DOES NOT mean E4=autistic=E4. That just means E4 is the most correlated to autism, because of lack of neural activity.
And I didn't invent the Strong/Weak type theory. Pavlov invented it decades earlier. If he had known enneagram, he could say "E5 is strong, E4 is weak".
People with AS yes. But autists have trouble even in learning to read.
In that case, maybe you should find a new interest. Since it seems that you have learned nothing.Yes, I have spent some years (6-7 I think) studying that phenomenon.
And still can't tell the obvious fact, that they are no more similar than two humans in general? Especially if you boil down to details and causes of their behaviour.Yes, many times.
Yes, many times.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Oh the irony.
ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
5w4 so/sx
"IP temperament! Because today's concerns are tomorrow's indifferences!"
Lord Fnorgle's Domain - A slowly growing collection of music, poetry and literature.
Stickam music performances
My disgust for this topic deepens by the line.
it's obvious these LIIs have a vendetta against us. Therefore, I count their reasoning null, as it is rooted in personal bias rather than on empirical facts.
I say, leave them to bark their nonsense to each other. If they think ILIs autistic, it makes no difference to us. We know we are not, period.
It's weird how there seems to be lot of LII's that have some weird animosity against ILI's. Not that I care, I just find it funny.
If there was a "LII children" thread, my first thought wouldn't be to write there something like:"all LII's are bed-wetters, because of theirHA they can't hold their wee-wee".
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
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