Examples of Socionics Alpha types

[Tallmo]

Those soccer moms would disagree with you. Keeping up with the appearance would drive traditional ESE women working to exhaustion. And Si is not just about tradition, but also keeping up with what's expected of them: if she has been living in an environment where she's expected by everyone to work 24 hours to make money and (very importantly) to please/service fans, she would do it, not thinking about how much real benefit/growth she could extract from these activities (which a real Ni type would think about).

Another thing is though she had controversial relations with other celebrities, she's always been a sweetheart, a good girl to her fans (a consistent Si image). An Ni type would either not be able to maintain that image, or role play that image in a somewhat unnatural way.

I think you have misunderstood Si. You are actually talking about Fe and Fe+Se in ESE can lead to the behaviour you mention.

Si is just about comfort, sensing inner physiological phenomena, impressions etc. In ESE you can see a sensual attitude, focus on the body and aesthetics. It's not very pronounced, though.

[nifl]

Keeping up with the appearance would drive traditional ESE women working to exhaustion. And Si is not just about tradition, but also keeping up with what's expected of them

The relation of tradition and expectations to Si specifically is nonsense which has no theoretical basis. Introverted Sensing is about the subjective evaluation of sense impressions: physical aesthetics, pleasure, pain, comfort etc. To have valued Si means to, on average, care more about physical comfort than material control. To have strong S means to feel your physical state well. Si types are thus the least prone to exhausting themselves with work - breaking our backs for some future goal or expectation does not motivate us much.

To do what's expected of you - as in, to do what you have promised - connects with rationality and strong functions. If ESE is pressed by the environment to become a physicist or engineer, you may see more problems with them to do what is expected.

f she has been living in an environment where she's expected by everyone to work 24 hours to make money and (very importantly) to please/service fans, she would do it

Rationals may be more steadfast to do what is needed. But such an environment would be hard for a Si type with no more motivation than ''what is expected''.

not thinking about how much real benefit/growth she could extract from these activities

Real benefit is evaluated by all functions, not just Ni. Benefit from the point of view of Si is mainly what is physically pleasant now, not in some future fantasy.

Evaluation of the relation of the energy spent on work to the monetary gain gotten is T. To see alternatives is N. So ESE can have problems to understand how efficient her work is, how she could get more by optimizing the work process, new ways to work/jobs to do.

she's always been a sweetheart, a good girl to her fans (a consistent Si image).

What you relate to Si here is related to F. To be sweet, emotionally pleasant. And Taylor Swift looks like a T type, excluding Delta ST. So no ego Si there.

@Tallmo

It's not very pronounced, though.

All strong functions are pronounced, especially the valued ones. The 2nd function is only slightly less pronounced than the 1st. In overt behaviour 2nd valued may even be more pronounced than 1st non-valued.

[fiorale]

Si is just about comfort, sensing inner physiological phenomena, impressions etc. In ESE you can see a sensual attitude, focus on the body and aesthetics. It's not very pronounced, though.

Sure.

[fiorale]

If ESE is pressed by the environment to become a physicist or engineer, you may see more problems with them to do what is expected...
Rationals may be more steadfast to do what is needed. But such an environment would be hard for a Si type with no more motivation than ''what is expected''.

Let me summarize the gist of what you are saying:

1. You think ESE is not likely to work hard (because it's not physically comfortable). Not likely to work efficiently.
2. You feel Taylor is a gamma NT

I know CS Joseph used to type her as NiTe (now he changed it to SeFi). I'm guessing that's probably part of the reason you are giving this typing?

I cannot change what you believe, except to offer my observations:

1. Si types can work very hard (LSE is one of the hardest working types. SEI is one of the most tenacious.)
2. ESEs may not work in an efficient way. But with many professional's help (they are good at getting people), they can be very productive. Being a pop star is not at all like being an engineer.
3. Though his theory is okay, CS Joseph has many mistypes (his Ne-Si type method often miss important Se-Ni marks, and often cannot tell valued Se V.S. non-valued Se)

[nifl]

You think ESE is not likely to work hard (because it's not physically comfortable). Not likely to work efficiently.

ESE may work hard like all others, but are less likely to do so to exhaustion, when it's not needed. It's perceived as more important for Si types to eat, sleep etc. enough than other types.
To evaluate the efficiency of their work is not the strong side of ESE. But if they're directly influencing people through emotions like singing, then such evaluations can be less necessary, as it's mainly for a strong function for them and demands less thinking.

You feel Taylor is a gamma NT

I feel that she is a T type and has no ego Si, not necessarily Gamma NT. Can also be Alpha, Beta T. Leaning towards Ti.

I know CS Joseph used to type her as NiTe (now he changed it to SeFi). I'm guessing that's probably part of the reason you are giving this typing?

I'm not familiar with any CS Joseph. I will deny SEE, but not ILI.
My opinion is based on my perception of her facial expressions and non-verbal mannerisms. Her gaze is cold, not warm or pathetic like F types' expressions often are.

1. Si types can work very hard (LSE is one of the hardest working types. SEI is one of the most tenacious.)

All types can work hard. It's easier to be motivated to it by valued functions, easier to do work in strong functions. Si types are just less likely to forgo feeling physically good for work.
Rationals work more steadily, and extraverts seem to have higher activity levels, but LSE are not one of the most hard working types. They prefer to work reasonably, efficienty, but not like mules. And about the tenaciousness of SEI... irrationals easier jump from a task if it annoys them to do it. And with superego Ni promises of future reward are difficult to trust in. SEI may even get economic problems from this, as they do not have the T to be reasonable with resources.

But with many professional's help (they are good at getting people), they can be very productive.

Yes, as all F types they are more skilled with people. They are more productive with people, where processual efficiency and calculations are not on their minds.

You need practical experience to understand the types, besides reading something like Filatova to get the basics. Your LSE may have been many SLE, LSI, for example. Your SEI - SEE, ESI.

[fiorale]

Gaze: her gaze looks normal to me in real life. If you refer to her gaze in music videos...that's acting

but LSE are not one of the most hard working types. They prefer to work reasonably, efficienty, but not like mules.

I have no problem with you typing her as any type you wish. Just curious, exactly which type do you feel usually works unreasonably, inefficiently, like mules?

[Ikite iru]

with the ridiculous fanbase and almost cult-like following that Taylor Swift has and the almost universal praise that fans give to her I find it almost impossible to see her as a logical type. many people in eastern europe type her LSI and I do wonder what Fe is when it isn't visible in Taylor Swift because she easily entertains gigantic crowds of people. With the imaginary aspects of her personality, I can only really imagine her to be Beta NF, although I think she is not as talented as most people think.

[godslave]

with the ridiculous fanbase and almost cult-like following that Taylor Swift has and the almost universal praise that fans give to her I find it almost impossible to see her as a logical type. many people in eastern europe type her LSI and I do wonder what Fe is when it isn't visible in Taylor Swift because she easily entertains gigantic crowds of people. With the imaginary aspects of her personality, I can only really imagine her to be Beta NF, although I think she is not as talented as most people think.

Let's face it, most people don't know how to type.

[SacredKnowing]

Taylor Swift - Blank Space


Taylor Swift - Style


Both are ESE fantasies, but the atmosphere of music and video changes with the types of the boyfriend.

First boyfriend is SEE, so the video is gamma-like (in which she plays ESI). Second boyfriend is SLE, so the video is beta-like (in which she plays EIE). Real gamma and beta productions tend to show more grit and less prettiness/extremes compared to alpha fantasies

Among all types, I find xSEs are the most versatile in acting.

Every Taylor Swift breakup song is about how SEE is her quasi-identical.

I think a German ESL student would rewrite the second part of the copula as "about how SEE her quasi-identical is." In some possible world.

[Ikite iru]

Let's face it, most people don't know how to type.

I think what happens is that one well-known socionist ends up typing someone and then most people end up thinking "well that probably makes sense" and then it spreads across the community.

[fiorale]

Larry David & Jeff Get Confronted | Curb Your Enthusiasm


Larry and Jeff: ILE and SEI partner in crime, not meeting ESI's moral standard.



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Curb Your Enthusiasm S7E02


Larry and Leon: ILE and SLE Fi polring getting in each other's way